JW JWs and Christians - why the divide?

Teslafied

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I don't know where to ask this so I hope I can here... Why is there a divide between JWs and Christians?

Do all JWs believe that Jesus Christ was a created being aka Michael the archangel?

Can one be a JW but still accept Jesus Christ as God ?

I guess I just never understood denominationalism within Christianity , yet Mormons and JWs are so close and they have a tight knit community yet Christians are constantly bickering at each other....
 

Teslafied

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Tell me about these Christians you're talking about.

What I mean is most Christians bicker over silly things like denomination etc, when Mormons or JWs seem to get along within their communities peaceably that's all I meant sorry if I over generalized.
 
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Rescued One

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What I mean is most Christians bicker over silly things like denomination etc, when Mormons or JWs seem to get along within their communities peaceably that's all I meant sorry if I over generalized.

Okay. Most people do find things to bicker about. Mormons bicker, too. But their eternal welfare is at stake and they particularly put their best faces forward when around non-Mormons. I've seen Mormons argue, I've been with visiting teachers who complained about climbing stairs to an apartment or about other Mormon women's choices, I personally knew a male Mormon child molestor (unfortunately!), a friend who divorced her Mormon husband because he was abusive. I've heard of JWs who had marital problems (many women there who are afraid of their husbands as well as church leaders.) What you see isn't always an accurate picture.
 
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Teslafied

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Okay. Most people do find things to bicker about. Mormons bicker, too. But their eternal welfare is at stake and they particularly put their best faces forward when around non-Mormons. I've seen Mormons argue, I've been with visiting teachers who complained about climbing stairs to an apartment or about other Mormon women's choices, I personally knew a male Mormon child molestor (unfortunately!), a friend who divorced her Mormon husband because he was abusive. I've heard of JWs who had marital problems (many women there who are afraid of their husbands as well as church leaders.) What you see isn't always an accurate picture.

I suppose you're right :)
 
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Paul K

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simply put, why are there division between JW and Christians, is because JW believe in doctorine that christian find faulty. JW don't believe that Jesus is son of God. JW believe that they must spend effort to win souls to God's Kingdom in order to become one of the selected 144 thousand saved souls, as recorded in the book of Revelations.

Jesus said in the bible, it is by His grace, we are saved. It is not by works but by His grace.
Jesus said that he must go to His father, in order to send the holy spirit to you. This signify the trinity belief, Father, Son, and Holy spirit, which JW don't believe in.

This is why christians cannot accept JW and Mormons. Mormons are a different topic otherwise.

Jesus said that we are to love them just as Jesus loved us. so all we can do for them is to continue showing love, and prayerfully guide them to the right way.

P
 
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Teslafied

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simply put, why are there division between JW and Christians, is because JW believe in doctorine that christian find faulty. JW don't believe that Jesus is son of God. JW believe that they must spend effort to win souls to God's Kingdom in order to become one of the selected 144 thousand saved souls, as recorded in the book of Revelations.

Jesus said in the bible, it is by His grace, we are saved. It is not by works but by His grace.
Jesus said that he must go to His father, in order to send the holy spirit to you. This signify the trinity belief, Father, Son, and Holy spirit, which JW don't believe in.

This is why christians cannot accept JW and Mormons. Mormons are a different topic otherwise.

Jesus said that we are to love them just as Jesus loved us. so all we can do for them is to continue showing love, and prayerfully guide them to the right way.

P

Would or could they be saved in that? I don't want anyone to suffer hell... Prince was a JW and I'm sad he's dead, can God forgive him if he didn't know any better and was deceived?
 
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Teslafied

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as for prince. well God is the judge, we are not. so I cannot comment to what happened to Prince. I will leave the judging in God's hands. It is sad to see a talented artists taken so soon from this life.

He will be missed, but his music isn't my type.

p

It's all sad death... I know it shouldn't disturb me but it does.
 
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Razare

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I talked with JW on other forums a great deal.

I ended up concluding that JW was like the Catholic church, both a step in the right direction, and if you sit in their pews, you got better odds of being saved by Christ than just living in the world.

But there are other churches you can go to, and if you keep going you end up saved because God will manifest to the point you end up accepting him, or you stop going to church.

In a church like a JW one or a Catholic one, you could sit there a few decades and the revelation might not happen to get saved.

That said, I'd probably rank them above some other churches.

As for the divide. I think they prefer it. It's their selling point. They're always pointing out how we can't trust the KJV, and the only decent translation is theirs. The ones I talked to, liked very much that they were separated from protestants or catholics... because only a very few attain heaven, and only they have the correct doctrine. The rest of Christianity is just flat wrong from their viewpoint, but they have door to door marketing tactics where they sort of dance around that.

Without creating a stark divide, it would hurt the marketing platform they recruit with. Because the real answer there are some protestant denominations that believe the same stuff they believe, but you hardly hear about those denominations because they're just a Protestant fringe.
 
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I talked with JW on other forums a great deal.

I ended up concluding that JW was like the Catholic church, both a step in the right direction, and if you sit in their pews, you got better odds of being saved by Christ than just living in the world.

But there are other churches you can go to, and if you keep going you end up saved because God will manifest to the point you end up accepting him, or you stop going to church.

In a church like a JW one or a Catholic one, you could sit there a few decades and the revelation might not happen to get saved.

That said, I'd probably rank them above some other churches.

As for the divide. I think they prefer it. It's their selling point. They're always pointing out how we can't trust the KJV, and the only decent translation is theirs. The ones I talked to, liked very much that they were separated from protestants or catholics... because only a very few attain heaven, and only they have the correct doctrine. The rest of Christianity is just flat wrong from their viewpoint, but they have door to door marketing tactics where they sort of dance around that.

Without creating a stark divide, it would hurt the marketing platform they recruit with. Because the real answer there are some protestant denominations that believe the same stuff they believe, but you hardly hear about those denominations because they're just a Protestant fringe.

Protestant churches are ones that broke away from the Catholic church during the reformation. There are hundreds of churches in the U.S. that are neither Protestant nor Catholic.
 
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Rescued One

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It's all sad death... I know it shouldn't disturb me but it does.

I've lost two sisters who died too soon from cancer and other family members who died of cancer. I just trust God to judge them as He will. My life is about living for God. It's hard to live through the loss of loved ones, but God is the God of all comfort.
 
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Teslafied

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I talked with JW on other forums a great deal.

I ended up concluding that JW was like the Catholic church, both a step in the right direction, and if you sit in their pews, you got better odds of being saved by Christ than just living in the world.

But there are other churches you can go to, and if you keep going you end up saved because God will manifest to the point you end up accepting him, or you stop going to church.

In a church like a JW one or a Catholic one, you could sit there a few decades and the revelation might not happen to get saved.

That said, I'd probably rank them above some other churches.

As for the divide. I think they prefer it. It's their selling point. They're always pointing out how we can't trust the KJV, and the only decent translation is theirs. The ones I talked to, liked very much that they were separated from protestants or catholics... because only a very few attain heaven, and only they have the correct doctrine. The rest of Christianity is just flat wrong from their viewpoint, but they have door to door marketing tactics where they sort of dance around that.

Without creating a stark divide, it would hurt the marketing platform they recruit with. Because the real answer there are some protestant denominations that believe the same stuff they believe, but you hardly hear about those denominations because they're just a Protestant fringe.

So you really believe they have a chance? I really hope so... I want all men and women saved.
 
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Teslafied

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I've lost two sisters who died too soon from cancer and other family members who died of cancer. I just trust God to judge them as He will. My life is about living for God. It'd hard to live through the loss of loved ones, but God is the God of all comfort.

I'm sorry for your loss :(
 
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ViaCrucis

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What I mean is most Christians bicker over silly things like denomination etc, when Mormons or JWs seem to get along within their communities peaceably that's all I meant sorry if I over generalized.

Is debating over denominational distinctions/differences that silly? Because usually it's not just some debate about whose tribe is right, it's usually discussion and debate over issues of significant theology: the Sacraments, salvation, etc.

Here's an example, as a Lutheran I hold steadfastly to the belief that the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper, the Holy Eucharist, is the very and actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. The bread and the wine are not mere symbols of Christ's flesh and blood, they actually and truly are Jesus Christ, present for us in these elements of bread and wine. What we receive in the Supper is not a mere memorial token of Christ, but Christ, the living, risen, real Jesus--He who sits and reigns at the right hand of the Father, who was born of Mary's womb, was crucified, raised from the dead, that Jesus is what we receive in the Supper. That's not a minor issue, that's a major issue. If I'm wrong and the Supper isn't actually Jesus, then I'm an idolator, if it's true that Christ is actually present in and under the bread and the wine then those who say He isn't are denying the very words of Jesus Christ, "This is My body ... This is My blood". So such an issue can never be considered a minor issue.

These are the sorts of issues that are debated under the "denomination" label.

But these are discussions and debates which happen within the broad hedge of Christian orthodoxy, among diverse groups of Christians who confess a common confession as outlined in the Nicene (Niceno-Constantinoplian) Creed.

Groups which, for example, deny not just Christ's Deity, but deny that Christ as the Son is homoousios with the Father are outside of the pale of orthodoxy, which makes the debates that much more significant.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Would or could they be saved in that?

You and I aren't able to make that determination. God alone is judge. Salvation isn't about getting our theological t's crossed and our i's dotted; it's about the gracious and loving God who condescends to meet us in Jesus Christ to reconcile the world to Himself. You, me, and everyone else will have to stand before the just and merciful Judge of all, and He alone has right of it.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Gabriel Anton

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Would or could they be saved in that? I don't want anyone to suffer hell... Prince was a JW and I'm sad he's dead, can God forgive him if he didn't know any better and was deceived?

JW don't believe in Hell. There is no Hell in JW. If what JW preached is true, then Prince is just dead and turn to dust, that's all. I find that to be one of the major faults of JW. Their notion of Jehovah is that He is ever loving and because of that it is impossible that He would create Hell.
 
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Razare

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The Catholic Church is a Nicene Christian faith. the Watchtower is not.

It's true. But the JW will get some stuff right that is outside the Nicene Creed, where a lot of denoms miss it. Less important stuff perhaps, but stuff nonetheless.
 
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Razare

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JW don't believe in Hell. There is no Hell in JW. If what JW preached is true, then Prince is just dead and turn to dust, that's all. I find that to be one of the major faults of JW. Their notion of Jehovah is that He is ever loving and because of that it is impossible that He would create Hell.

Well, that is true and false.

They believe Sheol is just turning to dust.

But they do generally accept a version of dispensationalism, where the dead are raised and judged at the very end of days.

They accept that there is a lake of fire after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, just as the Bible teaches, and this is hell, and they do believe people will go there. They don't focus on that a great deal, and I also am not sure if they believe it is eternal... but they do accept the second hell as existing.

The Bible has 2 hells, though, Sheol and then the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). They don't believe in going to Sheol conscious. They're wrong of course, but Sheol isn't really hell anyway.

What I find more stranger in their beliefs is that when people are raised from the dead, they cease being who they were formerly. They essentially believe it's a different person that looks like you. Which that I find far more bizarre than their rejection of our spirits going to Sheol conscious.
 
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