Justified by Faith BUT

[friend of]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

 

[timothyu]

If we don't know what we have done wrong in the first place, why expect to move on?

 

[rturner76]

BUT........dead faith or living faith? what are we talking about, belief or faith? We are commanded to repent all through the New Testament.

Acts 3:19 ESV
Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,

2 Peter 3:9 ESV
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Acts 2:38 ESV
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 17:30 ESV
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

Acts 17:30 ESV
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

1 John 1:9 ESV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Chronicles 7:14 ESV
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Matthew 3:8 ESV
Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

Romans 2:4 ESV
Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

 

[Jonaitis]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

Repentance is a change of direction. You can't really have faith without repentance.

 

[Neostarwcc]

People say repentance is required for salvation because the Bible says repentance is required for salvation. Whenever the apostles were asked how to be saved they said "Repent and believe the gospel".

Repentance comes with true faith. How can you come to Christ without it? How can you expect salvation without it? God is not a Genie who grants our every wish and whim nor will he save us if we ask him without repentance. Jesus warned about false faith multiple times during his ministry.

 

[d taylor]

-​

I trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life and at the time i trusted in The Messiah i did not repent. And i am no way going to hell, God has promised me i am not. So i believe God and not your claim.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

It is by faith alone. The problem is many have a faith that is like a seed that gets blown by the wind or never grows. Their faith is weak therefore the Holy Spirit is " quenched" and cannot do the transformative work required.
" The flesh is weak but the Spirit is willing". This means something in the belivers life. Repentance is changing ones mind. Only the Holy Spirit can accomplish that. So if there is no repentance then there is no Holy Spirit. We know, no Spirit no Salvation.
Blessings.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

I'd just say that some pastors, teachers and laity are inconsitent in laying out their propositions and definitions. They mean well, but I think you're right to spot a nuance of inconsistency in the way some of our fellow Christians attempt to spell it all out (hence, one reason for all of the sectarian divisions and denominations we tote around among ourselves).

On the whole, I've always been under the interpretive impression that repentence, as far as it realistically goes, is an aspect of "faith."

 

[com7fy8]

Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

Part of this can be that repentance is a person's change from not having faith to having faith.

 

[timothyu]

Simply put, there is no place in the Kingdom for those who continue to put their will ahead of the will of God.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Been a Christian for 51 years. The older I got, the more aware of how imperfect I am. I will continue to struggle against sin for the rest of what years I have. I agree we should all live without sin. That being said, I have yet to find any honest person who claims that they can do it. And I question those who suggest they have. I am strongly doubtful of any new believer who claim they repented from ALL sin before they were saved, as some teach.
I agree we should all be perfect. I acknowledge nobody has ever done it.

 

[Blaise N]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

You know I wondered this exact question a significant amount of months ago and this is what I believe the Lord taught me. Jesus spoke very greatly on Repentance,so it’s not an added teaching in the Bible.Remember,Jesus is the “author of the faith”Hebrews 12:2.We cannot do anything to merit or earn salvation.Irs entirely in the hands of God and his loving Grace,Only the Holy Spirit can bring a person to repentance.repentance isn’t a work,it’s a action and change of mind of sin enacted by the Holy Spirit.

 

[friend of]

Thank you all for the responses. I have something to contemplate now.

 

[HTacianas]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[Soyeong]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

Luther is the one who coined the phrase "justification by faith alone", so you shouldn't understand that to mean something contrary to other things that he said:

"Faith must of course be sincere. It must be a faith that performs good works through love. If faith lacks love it is not true faith. Thus the Apostle bars the way of hypocrites to the kingdom of Christ on all sides. He declares on the one hand, "In Christ Jesus circumcision availeth nothing," i.e., works avail nothing, but faith alone, and that without any merit whatever, avails before God. On the other hand, the Apostle declares that without fruits faith serves no purpose. To think, "If faith justifies without works, let us work nothing," is to despise the grace of God. Idle faith is not justifying faith. In this terse manner Paul presents the whole life of a Christian. Inwardly it consists in faith towards God, outwardly in love towards our fellow-men.

Luther also speaks on this concept in his Third Disputation Concerning Justification, written in 1536, which can be found in volume 34 of Luther's Works. I found the quote in Six Points on Luther's "Epistle of Straw" by James Swan. Catholics said that if sola fide is true, then you could say, "Faith without works justifies, Faith without works is dead [Jas. 2:17]. Therefore, dead faith justifies." Luther answered:

The argument is sophistical and the refutation is resolved grammatically. In the major premise, "faith" ought to be placed with the word "justifies" and the portion of the sentence "without works justifies" is placed in a predicate periphrase and must refer to the word "justifies," not to "faith." In the minor premise, "without works" is truly in the subject periphrase and refers to faith. We say that justification is effective without works, not that faith is without works. For that faith which lacks fruit is not an efficacious but a reigned faith. "Without works" is ambiguous, then. For that reason this argument settles nothing. It is one thing that faith justifies without works; it is another thing that faith exists without works."
----

Repentance is inherently an act of faith, not something that is added in addition to faith.

 

[Jamdoc]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)

So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".

Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

It's more that continuing in sin is a sign they didn't get justified by faith, and there are varying degrees of even that doctrine. There are many pastors who will teach that yeah, okay, the bible says confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved, so.. they do that, that simple thing, they're saved, and sure, if they go on sinning they are still saved, Just God is going to make them regret every sin while they're still in the body, chastisement/scourging which there is biblical support of, Hebrews 12, and Psalm 89 for instance

Hebrews 12

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Psalm 89

26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

and Paul also seems to teach a OSAS doctrine even among a very wicked sinner in 1 Corinthians 5

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So here, Paul isn't saying "this guy's not saved" or that this guy has lost his salvation, but rather that he should be dealt with Church discipline, kicked out, given over to Satan to have his way with him, and then when he dies.. well, he's saved. Either drive him to a point of repentance or he dies and thus stops sinning.

However.. James 2, and 1 John is where we get the idea that sinning after profession of faith in Jesus might indicate a false faith, and they're not saved

James 2:24, and 1 John 1:6, point out that continuation of walking in sin says "they're not saved"

so it can be a difficult line to figure out.
Are you sure what they're doing is a sin, like you have scripture to declare it, not church traditions or opinions, but scripture?
although, with James 4, the bar can be said to be set so high that it's almost impossible not to be sinning daily

14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

For some, sin is the transgression of specific laws, but for others, sin is "missing the mark" and the mark is perfection, and for those, James is basically saying, if you're not doing the absolute best use of your time at any given time moment to moment in your life, it's sin.
Though do keep in mind that James makes a qualification here. You have to know what you should be doing, and not doing it.

and if you're sure they are sinning, are they being chastised for it or are they comfortable in it and in fact thriving and enjoying it?
Someone who sins, knows they've done wrong, and says "I repent", is someone whom Jesus said, you just keep forgiving them.

But someone who's sinning, and just.. thriving in it.. that doesn't bode well for them.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Look up the word "teshuvah"...that would have been the meaning Yeshua taught

 

[Clare73]

...but if you don't repent you're going to hell (works)
So many pastors and teachers and laity church members admit to the core doctrine of justification by faith "alone", but then immediately whip around and plug in "...but repentance is required or else you won't be justified by faith alone".
Is this not a contradiction? Why would we need to do anything if we are justified by Faith alone? If we need to do anything else, then we are not in fact justified by faith alone, but by Faith + repentance.

The issue in the NT is faith vs. works (physical performance), not faith vs. anything.

Repentance is a change of mind and heart, it is not a work (physical performance).
Repentance is part of faith, that mighty turning from unbelief to belief.

However, as part of faith, repentance produces good works.

 

[timothyu]

Repentance is a change of mind and heart, it is not a work (physical performance).
Repentance is part of faith.

Yes but some people get confused and think that the things those do who have changed in allegiance from self interest to the will of God, are somehow trying to buy something, rather than obviously give it away.

 

[Clare73]

Yes but some people get confused and think that the things those do who have changed in allegiance from self interest to the will of God, are somehow trying to buy something, rather than obviously give it away.

And?