"Justification and Sabnctification"

[Cliff2]

"You can not separate justification and sanctification. To say that we are saved by justification alone is to deny the sanctuary message."

This is an exact quote from a very much conservative Forum.

I am wondering how you relate to it and what would you suggest the best way to answer it to be.

Do you agree or not?

Perhaps some reasons why would also be helfpful.

 

[Cliff2]

"You can not separate justification and sanctification. To say that we are saved by justification alone is to deny the sanctuary message."

This is an exact quote from a very much conservative Forum.

I am wondering how you relate to it and what would you suggest the best way to answer it to be.

Do you agree or not?

Perhaps some reasons why would also be helfpful.

Right from the start I should say what I think and that is it is totally wrong.

Eph. 2:8,9 does not support it nor can it be supported anywhere else in the Bible.

But if you differ then please say so.

 

[maco]

Justification has to do with past sins, whereas, sanctifcation has to do with future sins.

Justification is all the work of Christ, we can do nothing to add to the work of the cross but sanctification takes cooperation from us through obedience.

Hebrews 5:9 After Jesus was made perfect, he became the Source of eternal salvation for everyone who will obey him.

Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.

Hebrews 3:5-6 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

 

[Cliff2]

Justification has to do with past sins, whereas, sanctifcation has to do with future sins.

Justification is all the work of Christ, we can do nothing to add to the work of the cross but sanctification takes cooperation from us through obedience.

Hebrews 5:9 After Jesus was made perfect, he became the Source of eternal salvation for everyone who will obey him.

Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.

Hebrews 3:5-6 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

OK, thanks for that so far but what about the statement that has been made.

"You can not separate justification and sanctification. To say that we are saved by justification alone is to deny the sanctuary message."

I know that justification and sanctification go togetehr but both have very distinctive roles that have been given to each aspect of the plan of salvation.

Being saved by justification alone, does that deny the sanctuary message?

This is what these people are saying.

They do not want to accept that we are saved by grace through faith as Eph 2:8,9 says.

They want to include sanctification as being apart of the gospel.

I see justification as the gospel and sanctification as being a part of the plan of salvation but not the saving part.

To me that (sanctification) shows that we have been saved and accepted Jesus Christ as our Saviour.

 

[reddogs]

OK, thanks for that so far but what about the statement that has been made.

"You can not separate justification and sanctification. To say that we are saved by justification alone is to deny the sanctuary message."

I know that justification and sanctification go togetehr but both have very distinctive roles that have been given to each aspect of the plan of salvation.

Being saved by justification alone, does that deny the sanctuary message?

This is what these people are saying.

They do not want to accept that we are saved by grace through faith as Eph 2:8,9 says.

They want to include sanctification as being apart of the gospel.

I see justification as the gospel and sanctification as being a part of the plan of salvation but not the saving part.

To me that (sanctification) shows that we have been saved and accepted Jesus Christ as our Saviour.

To me justification is Christ taking and covering our past sins, then sanctification is the Holy Spirit indwelling transforming our hearts and minds as Christ turns our record to God the Father to judge.

Now how exactly it relates to the sanctuary message I will step aside and leave up to some of the more learned scholars we have here as I am still working on Creation........

 

[woobadooba]

"You can not separate justification and sanctification. To say that we are saved by justification alone is to deny the sanctuary message."

This is an exact quote from a very much conservative Forum.

I am wondering how you relate to it and what would you suggest the best way to answer it to be.

Do you agree or not?

Perhaps some reasons why would also be helfpful.

We are not saved by justification or sanctification. We are saved by grace through faith.

Justification and sanctification are the result of grace, not the cause of it.

You can no more separate justification from sanctification, than you can separate reconciliation from glorification. It is a package deal. Salvation doesn't take place until the package is complete, or until we are saved from all of the following: the guilt of sin, the power of sin, and the nature of sin.

 

[OntheDL]

Right from the start I should say what I think and that is it is totally wrong.

Eph. 2:8,9 does not support it nor can it be supported anywhere else in the Bible.

But if you differ then please say so.

That really depends on whose definition of 'being saved'. Does yours mean merely confessing your sins or it means in addition, you surrender your will and let God make you holy (sanctifiy)?

The essense of being "born again" means victory or having the beginning of that victorious journey over sin. Isn't that what Romans 6 talking about?

Do you remember Jesus said not everyone that says Lord Lord shall enter into heaven but those who do the will of my Father?

Jesus gave up everything to save us. Do you think you can enter into heaven without giving up your old sinful self?

 

[OntheDL]

Right from the start I should say what I think and that is it is totally wrong.

Eph. 2:8,9 does not support it nor can it be supported anywhere else in the Bible.

But if you differ then please say so.

Furthermore, look up the new covenant of grace defined in Hebrews 8 and 10.

Obedience is the condition of God's blessing. However sinful humans can't do by their own power. Therefore by grace, God empowers us to live a righteous life (law written in our hearts).

It's only when you allow God to transform your life of sin to a life of faith and obedience which is clearly shown in the records during judgment, you are then saved.

Saved from what? Saved from condemnation and granted eternal life. Eternal life is granted after judgment not when you merely confess your sins and accept Christ as your savior. If that's true then there is no possibility of losing your salvation.

Salvation is about the journey not the destination.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I agree with the statement but then I don't see Justification in the legal forensic way. The first thing is to define your terms. If justification is being declared to be free of sin (this is the usual definition) though in reality we still sin this causes God to produce a legal fiction The extreme traditional Adventists who may have written the original work think that at some point the person actually does become free of sin and that is when their justification occurs. And my view of justification is that a person is in a right relationship with God, having the relationship is the right thing to do even though we still in fact still sin.

Therefore a choice to have a relationship with God is the righteous thing to do. Righteousness by faith is therefore the relationship with God which is developed through the grace of God and our trust in God. Sanctification is as the root of the term indicates to be set apart to God. Thus we are followers of God seeking to follow His ways.

So the two are so interrelated it would be impossible to separate them. But if the justification is defined differently it might be possible to separate them, but the legal fiction idea is hard to find reasonable
see the following:
Justification by Faith; No hiding

 

[maco]

OK, thanks for that so far but what about the statement that has been made.

"You can not separate justification and sanctification. To say that we are saved by justification alone is to deny the sanctuary message."

I know that justification and sanctification go togetehr but both have very distinctive roles that have been given to each aspect of the plan of salvation.

Being saved by justification alone, does that deny the sanctuary message?

This is what these people are saying.

They do not want to accept that we are saved by grace through faith as Eph 2:8,9 says.

They want to include sanctification as being apart of the gospel.

I see justification as the gospel and sanctification as being a part of the plan of salvation but not the saving part.

To me that (sanctification) shows that we have been saved and accepted Jesus Christ as our Saviour.

Many people make statements that influence the way people believe but it doesn't mean the statement is biblical. From what I see in the Bible salvation is three fold, justification, sanctification and glorification. All three of these are needed to make salvation complete.

The Bible contains verses that speak of us as already saved, in the process of being saved and we will be saved. This tells me that while we're believing and living a life of obedience we are considered saved in the eyes of God yet we are waiting for the unltimate fullfillment of salvation which is the resurrection unto immortality or glorification.

 

[OntheDL]

Many people make statements that influence the way people believe but it doesn't mean the statement is biblical. From what I see in the Bible salvation is three fold, justification, sanctification and glorification. All three of these are needed to make salvation complete.

The Bible contains verses that speak of us as already saved, in the process of being saved and we will be saved. This tells me that while we're believing and living a life of obedience we are considered saved in the eyes of God yet we are waiting for the unltimate fullfillment of salvation which is the resurrection unto immortality or glorification.

I'd agree with the above statements. As long as we are walking with God, we are on the way to eternal life. Should our walk be cut short before we could finish the course, we are considered saved. It is what we do with what's given us.

 

[Endium]

Woob has more of the right idea here.

Technically speaking, it is not right to say that we are saved "by" either justification or sanctification.

We are saved by Jesus Christ alone, and we claim this through faith. It is important to understand that justification does NOT only cover past sins. It covers past, present and future sins altogether. Take a look at Hebrews 10:14 "For by one offering He has perfected(justified) forever those who are being sanctified."

It doesn't make sense to say that it is justification that saves us. Justification is nothing more than a legal status. It is Christ who sets that legal status, so it is by Him that we are saved.

Furthermore, we are not justified because of our own righteousness, but it is because Christ's righteousness. When God looks at us He sees Christ in our place, and therefore we are holy before God irrespective of our past or future sins because in Christ there is no sin. Now I know this can be quite confusing, and I am in no way saying that we have a license to sin. There is a lot more to be said on this, but I will leave it and just try to answer the question now.

To deny that sanctification is necessary part of our salvation is in part to deny the sanctuary service. This can be seen by looking at the definition of salvation.

Salvation includes not only being delivered from the second death, but also being delivered from the power of sin in our present lives. Justification is our title to heaven, and sanctification is our fitness for heaven. We are not justified to have a place in heaven as long as there is a death sentence on us, and we are not fit for heaven as long as we still adhere to any form of sin.

The purpose of the sanctuary was to show God's plan of salvation. This includes both justification and sanctification. The sanctuary not only showed that Christ is the sacrifice for our sins by which we are justified, but also showed that the purpose was to perfect the sinner. Looking at Hebrews 10:1 "For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect."

This is saying that even though the people offered sacrifices they still continued to live in sin. However, if you continue reading this chapter you will see that the purpose of the true sanctuary in heaven is to make us perfect. This is why the earthly sanctuary was just a shadow. Christ is now ministering in the sanctuary to get rid of the sins of our lives. A phrase for sanctification is "Christ in Me." Sanctification is Christ in me working against the flesh to get rid of all forms of sin.

You can also see sanctification in the offerings the people gave. The burnt offering, for example, represented a total dedication to God. The whole offering was sacrificed to God, which represented giving one's whole life to God.

In some of the sacrifices the people were required to remove the fat from the body. The fat here represented sin. This showed that we are to removed sin from our lives (with help from God) when we sacrifice ourselves to God.

There are many more examples, but for the sake of space i will stop with those.

You should not believe that in order to get to heaven all you have to do is mentally agree or "believe" in Jesus. Salvation is also being freed from our lives of sin. We must work with God to put away the sins in our lives. The sanctuary clearly shows that God expects us right here and now to stop sinning. Not through our own strength, but through the power of God.

This can all be summarized in one verse. "But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness(justification) and sanctification and redemption." 1 cor 1:30. As I said before, it is Christ who saves us. Justification and sanctification are just terms we use to denote specific aspects of our salvation. This verse just quoted shows that Christ is our justification and our sanctification. When we have Christ, we have both sanctification and justification. We cannot have just one or the other, because we cannot divide Christ. So someone who is saved MUST have both justification and sanctification. You cannot say I am saved by justification alone, because we are saved by Christ, who is both our justification and sanctification.

 

[maco]

I'd agree with the above statements. As long as we are walking with God, we are on the way to eternal life. Should our walk be cut short before we could finish the course, we are considered saved. It is what we do with what's given us.

The Bible says we can neglect our salvation. The warning in not so much in sinning, but rather, in hardness of the heart. When we fall into sin we 1 John 1:9. This is the open door that God has made for a people prone to sin. The warning in the Bible is to not harden the heart. It's in the hardness of heart through the deceitfullness of sin that causes us not to 1 John 1:9.

 

[maco]

Endium;
We are saved by Jesus Christ alone, and we claim this through faith. It is important to understand that justification does NOT only cover past sins. It covers past, present and future sins altogether. Take a look at Hebrews 10:14 "For by one offering He has perfected(justified) forever those who are being sanctified."

Justification has to do with past sins. Jesus' sacrifice is perfect for all sin but we have to come to Him to be cleansed. Future sins will bring death just like our past sins if we don't repent and seek God for cleansing. The Bible says if we don't forgive others neither will God forgive us, this has to do with future sins. When we do sin Christ sacrifice is still acceptable to God now and forever so we can continue to come to Him for forgiveness, He is fathful and just to forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness. This is an on going walk.

 

[Jon0388g]

"Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, "Remove the filthy garments from him." Again he said to him, "See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes......Thus says the Lord of hosts, "If you will walk in My ways and if you will perform My service, then you will also govern My house and also have charge of My courts, and I will grant you free access among these who are standing here." Zechariah 3:4, 7

Red: Justification. Filthy clothes removed, righteousness of Christ instead

Blue: Sanctification. Conditional cooperation.

Green: Glorification - free access to the tree of life!


Jon

 

[NightEternal]

Justification is the standing we have before God by virtue of the merits of Christ and His righteousness in place of our own, the Wedding Garment. We are saved, period. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a deposit gauranteeing our inheritance. Sanctification is the growth and spiritual maturity process we undergo in order to live within God's will and please Him. It is the fruit, not the root of salvation. Sanctification is not in any way instrumental in our salvation, or we are saved by works. The good works we do are a loving response to the salvation already secured on our behalf, not as a means to maintain what we have already been given as a free gift!

Romans makes this very clear.

Glorification is where our fallen natures, sinful characters and weakened physical bodies are transformed in the twinkling of an eye to the state of Adam before the fall. Mortal puts on immortality and corruption puts on incorruptible. We are restored to full sinless perfection, ready to enter Heaven.

 

[Cliff2]

Thanks guys, appreciate your contribution, keep it up.

I have to go to a Church meeting now so cannot stay online but hope to tomorrow.