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Just Puppets?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by gmm4j, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Skala

    Skala I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him

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    Rom 9:20-23
    (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
    (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
    (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
    (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--
     
  2. Hammster

    Hammster 1934-2017 Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command.


    So there's no way God would stop you from sinning?
     
  3. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    What is let that is you yourself? If God controls every aspect then what remains?
     
  4. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    You cannot seriously consider that this applies to a man's eternal destiny?

    If you do, which came first the chicken (God's election/reprobation) or the egg (Man's sin, beginning with Adam)?
     
  5. Skala

    Skala I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him

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    You seriously cannot consider that it doesn't? Have you actually read the flipping chapter?

    Election is referred to in the Bible as "the election of grace". You can't be gracious to people who aren't considered as sinful.

    Thus, God elected/reprobated people whom he considered to be guilty for sin.
     
  6. gmm4j

    gmm4j Well-Known Member

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    flipping chapter?
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    What of myself is better than what God gives?

    Why would I not want what is better?

    I don't see the problem.
     
  8. bottomofsandal

    bottomofsandal Observant listener

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    Sounds like abiding/indwelling of The Holy Spirit.

    Jesus said He is in us and we are in Him, and He and The Father are one.
     
  9. crimsonleaf

    crimsonleaf Guest

    +0
    Yup, it appears that God has made us new people.

    The only part of the old me that is left is the part which still leans towards sin. With God's help and grace I will conquer that too, one day.
     
  10. gmm4j

    gmm4j Well-Known Member

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  11. crimsonleaf

    crimsonleaf Guest

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  12. Hammster

    Hammster 1934-2017 Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    When ops have been addresses thoroughly, and the OP has to result to this (bumping with spam), it shows that they really didn't have much to begin with.
     
  13. Epiphoskei

    Epiphoskei Senior Veteran

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    Nothing needs remain nor needs be of us ultimately. We do not define our central nature around elements which we conceive of as being autonomous from God.
     
  14. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    When Paul sums up the arguments he has been making, his focuses is on groups of people. He is saying that God has chosen to work through the Gentiles; no individual salvation is in view.

    Romans 9:30-32
    What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

    If God elected Jacob unto eternal life and Esau to eternal damnation without considering anything that they might do (good or bad), how is Esau still responsible?