Just or Merciful

[Moral Orel]

Does God practice justice, or does God practice mercy?

I would say that practicing justice is to ensure that people get punishments they deserve.

And I would say that practicing mercy is to spare people from punishments they deserve.

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

 

[Sabertooth]

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

The whole point of Christianity is that He did create a means to do both; that He can offer a means of Amnesty (from our default judged state) but surrender is required to attain it.

 

[Moral Orel]

The whole point of Christianity is that He did create a means to do both; that He can offer a means of Amnesty (from our default judged state) but surrender is required to attain it.

It is impossible to both ensure that people get what they deserve and to spare people from punishment they deserve. One cannot simultaneously give and withhold punishment.

 

[Sabertooth]

It is impossible to both ensure that people get what they deserve and to spare people from punishment they deserve. One cannot simultaneously give and withhold punishment.

Do you know the legal meaning of "amnesty?"
Also in Christianity, all sin is punished completely, but not all sinners are.
(Understanding that requires a supernatural paradigm shift.)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Does God practice justice, or does God practice mercy?

I would say that practicing justice is to ensure that people get punishments they deserve.

And I would say that practicing mercy is to spare people from punishments they deserve.

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

Justice for those who refuse His saving grace.

Mercy for those who believe.

 

[JohnClay]

Does God practice justice, or does God practice mercy?

I would say that practicing justice is to ensure that people get punishments they deserve.

And I would say that practicing mercy is to spare people from punishments they deserve.

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

I think it is logical to say that sometimes God practices justice and sometimes God practices mercy.

 

[disciple Clint]

It is impossible to both ensure that people get what they deserve and to spare people from punishment they deserve. One cannot simultaneously give and withhold punishment.

Is it possible to go to court, have the judge fine you $100 and have someone pay that fine for you? Jesus paid the full price for everyone who accepts Him.

 

[Moral Orel]

Justice for those who refuse His saving grace.

No justice for those that do?

Mercy for those who believe.

And he is merciless to those that don't?

 

[Moral Orel]

Do you know the legal meaning of "amnesty?"

Yes.

Also in Christianity, all sin is punished completely, but not all sinners are.

If it's just to punish people who deserve it, then it's unjust to not punish people who deserve it.

 

[Moral Orel]

Is it possible to go to court, have the judge fine you $100 and have someone pay that fine for you?

Sure, I'll assume it is. Justice hasn't been served because wrongdoing hasn't been punished. If it is just for me to pay that fine, it is unjust for someone else to pay that fine.

 

[Moral Orel]

I think it is logical to say that sometimes God practices justice and sometimes God practices mercy.

I agree. This means that sometimes God is unjust and sometimes God is merciless. Is that justice?

 

[disciple Clint]

Sure, I'll assume it is. Justice hasn't been served because wrongdoing hasn't been punished. If it is just for me to pay that fine, it is unjust for someone else to pay that fine.

you have somehow linked justice with punishment, under that theory the more punishment the grater the justice.

 

[JohnClay]

I agree. This means that sometimes God is unjust and sometimes God is merciless. Is that justice?

BTW in the case of the courts, there often are victims for the crimes.... but often the victim for our sin is (apparently) God... God is the one saying that people should be harshly punished for their sins... so people usually are not complaining that some people are getting away with their sins if they are "saved"....

 

[Moral Orel]

you have somehow linked justice with punishment, under that theory the more punishment the grater the justice.

There is a just amount of punishment. Too much or too little would be unjust. If I don't pay the fine that I deserve to pay, that is unjust. Why do you think it is just for me to not receive punishment that I deserve?

 

[cloudyday2]

Does God practice justice, or does God practice mercy?

I would say that practicing justice is to ensure that people get punishments they deserve.

And I would say that practicing mercy is to spare people from punishments they deserve.

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

The solution is to use different definitions for justice and mercy.

Justice might be defined as interventions by a higher power (such as a God or a human court system) whose goal is to encourage lawful behavior. Usually laws allow for latitude in the punishments, and the judge is free to select whatever seems most likely to achieve the goal of FUTURE lawfulness in society. Sometimes the judge decides that it is best to make a public example of the lawbreaker in hopes of affecting other potential lawbreakers (crucifixion would be an extreme and gruesome example of that). Other times the judge might try to rehabilitate the lawbreaker and order treatments instead (a mentally ill person might be ordered to get psychiatric help).

There is still some tension between achieving lawfulness in society and achieving other forms of well-being in society. For example, sometimes the feelings about a law might change over time and amnesty might be necessary to heal society. For example, I believe there was some amnesty for draft-dodgers in the Vietnam War as US society attempted to heal the cultural wounds.

Here is a wikipedia page on "punishment" that lists a variety of goals for punishment:
- deterrence (prevention)
- rehabilitation
- incapacitation and societal protection
- retribution
- restoration
- education and denunciation
Punishment

 

[Moral Orel]

The solution is to use different definitions for justice and mercy.

I'm open to hearing what other definitions you might have in mind as long as they contain the words "deserve" and "punishment".

Here is a wikipedia page on "punishment" that lists a variety of goals for punishment:
- deterrence (prevention)
- rehabilitation
- incapacitation and societal protection
- retribution
- restoration
- education and denunciation
Punishment

This thread is about retributive justice. It's fine to put emphasis on the word "punishment" as long as you don't ignore the word "deserve".

 

[cloudyday2]

I'm open to hearing what other definitions you might have in mind as long as they contain the words "deserve" and "punishment".

This thread is about retributive justice. It's fine to put emphasis on the word "punishment" as long as you don't ignore the word "deserve".

Why are you limiting the definition in that way? I'm a little puzzled.

 

[Paulomycin]

Does God practice justice, or does God practice mercy?

I would say that practicing justice is to ensure that people get punishments they deserve.

And I would say that practicing mercy is to spare people from punishments they deserve.

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

Both. Because mercy, by definition, is not just. . .but mercy is not injustice either.
Mercy is also undeserved (by definition).
Therefore, mercy and justice are compatible.

 

[Lawrence87]

Which does God practise? Both. No one claims that God is always one or the other.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Does God practice justice, or does God practice mercy?

I would say that practicing justice is to ensure that people get punishments they deserve.

And I would say that practicing mercy is to spare people from punishments they deserve.

Clearly, it isn't possible to do both, so which does God practice?

Shouldn't your [objectively stated] concluding question fit the form of your [subjective] premises?

And there you have it. The "justice" that is expressed in the Bible isn't exactly that which floats around and conceptually morphs within today's Post-Enlightenment/Post-Revolutionary Age, is it?

So, who's to say (you say/I say?) that God's Justice (and Judgement) isn't fully compatible with the Mercy and Grace that He extends to humanity?