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Just curious

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Mickeyk72, Nov 16, 2007.

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  1. helenofbritain

    helenofbritain St Mary MacKillop of the Cross, pray for us

    +652
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    Tee Hee Hee! An unintended pun!! :thumbsup:

    I do believe you mean to say "roam around the Vatican".
     
  2. longhair75

    longhair75 Finally back Home Supporter

    +816
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    Many of us older folks were raised in a time when all Masses were in Latin. I was an altar boy, and one of the last group to learn the Mass in Latin, when the Vatican II changes took place and served in one of the first Masses in our parish to be conducted in English.
     
  3. Fish and Bread

    Fish and Bread Dona nobis pacem

    +2,345
    Christian
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I understand the symbolism of the change to white. However, my issue with it is that we live in a time where everyone just assumes everyone is going to heaven and, unfortunately, having white at a funeral and a priest talk about how whomever is doing better now in heaven kind of play into that. Don't get me wrong -- actually one of the reasons I am not a practicing Catholic is that I have issues with people being sent to hell.

    However
    , the theology of the Church is that the gate is narrow that leads to life. I really feel strongly that liturgy needs to reflect theology, and, ideally, teach it as well by implication. And the neo-universalism that many folks believe, indicates there is some deficit in understanding, which I think the wearing of black instead of white at funerals might subtlety help combat, in combination with a catechisical process. Were I Pope, I'd view my role in large part as reinforcing what the church teaches and upholding tradition. I couldn't be teaching what I might want theology to be, I'd have to be teaching what the Church teaches. I'd feel negligent in my duty if I didn't take steps to reinforce a Catholic perspective of the afterlife in the popular mind in such a role.

    We already arguably have too much marriage preparation in the US in the form of these pre-CANA classes. It's more marriage preparation than at any time in the history of the Church. The problem isn't lack of preparation, it's the attitude of the folks getting married, and possibly in some dioceses what is actually taught in the classes (But having never really seen a course outline, I don't want to make any real comments upon what is taught, because I just don't know in anything more than general terms). Again, I think this is another area where cultural reinforcement would be helpful. Right now, in the US, annulments are so prevalent, some people actually think "If it doesn't work out, I can always get an annulment, which is just like a civil divorce" (in their minds), which, ironically, might in and of itself be grounds for annulment.

    By capping the number of annulments, the Church would be forcing these diocesan boards in the US to be stricter about when they grant an annulment. In doing so, the laity would eventually have the idea of marriage as a life-long bond more strongly enforced and, thus, there'd be fewer grounds for annulments. Obviously, the cap would also have to come with new stricter guidelines.

    I do want to stress that that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate grounds for seeking annulments. There are. And I think people who are separated and plan to be separated the rest of their lives should indeed apply on any conceivable grounds they can come up with -- since if they are not validly married, it would be tragic for them not to get a second chance at love. It's always worth applying.

    I just think sometimes it gets a little ridiculous in the US at times. "Why do you want an annulment?" "Uhhh, I was immature when I got married because I was a typical 19 year old." "Granted!". Yes, fairly normal levels of youthful immaturity are actually grounds for annulment nowadays in the US. These guidelines seriously need to be revised if the Church is serious about marriage as a lifelong institution. But, again, the problem is not at all on the end of the people applying, it's on the end of the diocesan boards that approve 99% of applications. People should apply if their marriage fails -- but it's up to the Church to figure out which marriages were legitimately invalid and which were legitimately valid, not just to rubber stamp "annulment" on nearly everything that comes their way. This isn't really a problem outside the US, but something about the US process doesn't seem to be working right, unless we want to say there is something really particular about the US culture or church relative to even other English-speaking cultures and churches, that means a much larger percentage of our marriages are invalid.

    I'd actually be a very traditional Pope in most respects. People probably assume I'd come in there and start liberalizing everything, because I'm a fairly liberal guy, but I have respect for the institution and really would want to uphold and defend it as Pope.

    It was late at night over here and I really phrased that point badly. What I meant is that I would no longer allow Latin-Rite priests to do confirmations (Which some folks aren't aware happens, but it does -- I've actually witnessed it.). In the Latin Rite, only bishops would be allowed to confirmation as is traditional, as it would both uphold tradition and also teach something important about the role of bishop as pastor of the diocese (I don't think modern Catholics generally have enough understanding that their real pastor is their bishop, and bringing him in each year for confirmations, or sending people to him, would help reinforce that). The reason I did not say that would be true universally, is because I understand the Eastern rite traditions about confirmation less well, and would leave that decision to the Eastern patriarchs and metropolitans.

    I went back and edited my initial post just now to try to make my point more clear.

    The problem is that I, as you said, wouldn't want to give child molester priests access to children in a capacity of priests, because it gives them a position of authority, respect, and power, and in such cases they would have previously proven prone to temptation to great abuse of it that they couldn't resist. Really, almost any role a priest could have would theoretically involve some on the job access to children while he is wearing his collar, and certainly would involve him potentially running across children off the job while wearing clericals. They can use relationships forged in monitored settings to arrange meetings in unmonitored settings. So, I think the real choice facing the bishop ought to be either to defrock the priest (Thereby ensuring that he would never be able to use his position as priest in an abusive way again), or to allow the priest to continue serving as a priest, but in a cloistered monastery where he would be serving all adults and would never run across children again.

    One of the things that I think is important to realize is that when folks advocate preventing child molesting priests from serving as priest, they're not saying they can't repent or are going to hell or are kicked out of the Church. It is speaking of taking a common sense step to protect children. If I knew someone who was a chronic embezzler of money, and stole some from me, I might forgive the person and still be his friend, but I wouldn't hire him to handle money or leave my wallet on the table and leave the room. One can forgive and still be cautious and prudent.

    Thanks. :)

    Yeah, the "secret library" and the "secret archives" both have intriguing sounds names. I might get someone who knows Latin and dig around with him or her. :)
     
  4. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

    +7,448
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    I am going to egged for this....

    BUT I would make all the priests and Bishops take classes on the ECF's and then make them pass classes to be instructed in Traditional teaching and remove any liberal priests who refused to teach the Church teachings...

    :holy:

    I like tomatoes guys...not eggs. :p
    Better yet, throw money. ^_^
     
  5. Antigone

    Antigone The Wrath of Whatever

    +1,242
    Christian
    Legal Union (Other)
    That's funny, because I would do the opposite thing. The 'can't we all just get along'-kind of approach.

    Also I'd sanctify my congregation's vicar. :thumbsup: He's such a wonderful man.
     
  6. Mickeyk72

    Mickeyk72 Legend

    +1,053
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    Yes - It was early this am.... I was not spelling-alert yet. I had only had one cup of coffee.... Thanks for the correction.
     
  7. Mickeyk72

    Mickeyk72 Legend

    +1,053
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    I forgot I don't know Latin either - yes would need someone who knows Latin to help.........
     
  8. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

    +7,448
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    No problem....just throw money. ^_^

    I want to stop the break up within the Church and bring back the Apostles vigor for stern adherence.

    And well... we may not agree... but i still love ya! ;) :hug:

    BTW back in the day... ppl did get along. There was much more awe for the Church and ppl clamored to be part of it.
    Ppl need strictness... its just a part of their physiological make up.
     
  9. hawko

    hawko Regular Member

    956
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    I would allow the priests to marry if they wished to. Over the years, I've known two priests who were previously married, (in both cases, their wives died, and then they entered the priesthood). Both of these priests were particularly helpful and had great insight when it came to answering questions and counseling regarding marital problems.
     
  10. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

    +7,448
    Catholic
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    I used to be against priests getting married...
    BUT after reading alot of history, I am under the impression that having them married now makes sense.

    I think celibacy depends on the necessity of the times... and i think with recent problems it could go back to married priests.
     
  11. JoeV

    JoeV Gloria in excelsis Deo!

    705
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    That would sure be nice...unfortunately it wouldn't be that easy:cry:
     
  12. YourBrotherInChrist

    YourBrotherInChrist Regular Member

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    I'd make an infallible declaration, full ex cathedra, just to get into the history books. Something safe, so the Holy Spirit doesn't kill me first. Probably the sacramentality of the episcopate.
     
  13. NiteClerk

    NiteClerk Well-Known Member Supporter

    +197
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    Good question.

    I would like to do something about divorced people not being about to be married within the Church. But unless the Holy Spirit dictated it to me, I have no idea what the solution is.

    So a couple of things that I would feel safe changing are:
    Dump the Pope-mobile and get a monster truck to ride around in. :thumbsup:

    Bring back a form of the inquisition, but for Priest, Cardinals and Bishops. Something like the Knights Templar with diplomatic immunity. They would travel around and audit Parishes for spiritual, financial, and moral transgressions.
    Child molesters would not be able to ever do so again. If they live they will never want to molest.
    Embezzelers would be taught the error of their ways. Probably by being reassigned to to either a polar Parish or one in the arid desert.
    Theological unsound clerics would have the True message taught to them. And most of the scars won't show.
    (This is why they need diplomatic immunity.)

    Give a strong sermon on supporting Catholic Schools. If you're going to buy a $50,000 S.U.V. then you had better have given a tithe to your Church and school.

    Let people overhear me mention that I going to add to the secret archieves the every Pope has passed along to the next since the time of Saint Peter.

    Appoint Archbishop Burke (Saint Louis, MO) a Cardinal. Then put him in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith. (Which would probably oversee the Holy office of the Inquisition.) Make my parish Priest a Bishop. At the parish level I'd hate to lose him. But he speaks Romes message without deviation.

    Ditto the Early Church Father teachings.

    Give a Homily in plain language aimed at the common person. Instruct the translators to keep it in a plain format, not stilited and dry.
     
  14. geocajun

    geocajun Priest of the holy smackrament

    +1,610
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    I would change the laws about clergy marriage. I'd write a quick encyclical about how clergy should be married and explain how it would help end the tensions between them and the laity, and how it helps them meet the laity where they are, etc ... I'd make it infallible too ;)

    I may go ahead and write this encyclical now just in case I get the opportunity to be pope for a day. I want to be prepared.
     
  15. tadoflamb

    tadoflamb no identificado

    +7,256
    United States
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    I'd double my salary. :idea:


    How much does the Pope make, anyway?
     
  16. Antigone

    Antigone The Wrath of Whatever

    +1,242
    Christian
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    Of course. We're throwing tomatoes with eachother, not at eachother.
    And I'm pretty sure I'd make a lousy pope anyway.

    But it can also make them more reluctant. People don't like tutelage these days. Could be one of the reasons why church attendance is dropping...
     
  17. NiteClerk

    NiteClerk Well-Known Member Supporter

    +197
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    How much does he need? All food, shelter, transportation, medical bills are covered by the Church/state. For anything else all he has to do is mention that he needs something and I'm sure someone will donate it.
    Back in the dark ages of the internet I was a network engineer and my Priest mentioned that he wanted online. So I upgraded his computer memory, bought a modem and anti-virus software, and created a free account at my ISP. But for what I spent on his computer I could have almost bought him a new one.
     
  18. nyj

    nyj Goodbye, my puppy

    +1,249
    Catholic
    Yah, because out of the Worlds 10 Toughest Jobs ... I bet the Swiss Guard is up right up there ... maybe 3rd or 4th.

    If I were Pope, I'd inform people that recent events do not mean we need a married priesthood, just better vocational training.
     
  19. Rebekka

    Rebekka meow meow meow meow meow meow

    +1,147
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    No one wants to stop the ban on birth control? :scratch:




    Well, I'd go to the secret archives too - and bring my classicist husband with me, so Latin's not a problem. :thumbsup:

    And I'd open the Vatican for cats, and make the presence of cats in the Vatican infallible. Every pope is required to have at least 2 cats (more is allowed). That will make pope Benedict so happy the next day, and the rest of his life. :) :clap:
     
  20. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,502
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    Everyone needs to vent once in a while - even people who get to wear rad uniforms.

    I wouldn't stop at lifting the ban, I'd make birth control mandatory for people who in my estimation shouldn't procreate. :)

    I don't know if the ban even needs to be lifted, what difference would it make? Does a tree falling in the woods make a sound if nobody hears it? Does a ban on contraception mean anything if practically nobody heeds it? The way I see it, that rule has been rejected by the Body of Christ - so how important could it be? It's not like a rule against bearing false witness, where maybe we've all told a lie in our lifetimes but we mostly believe telling the truth is right. We Catholics (at least educated catholics in Western countries) have collectively rejected the Church's teaching on birth control as being either wrong or wrong for us as individual couples.

    ...but yeah, I'd totally change it too, 'Beks.
     
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