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Featured Just a heads up: age of Grace is coming to an end

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    No, it is a Christian text, inspired by the Holy Spirit, composed in Greek, written mostly outside Palestine, and largely written for Gentiles.

    Your talk of "Jewish context" is only because you want to make the text say something different from what it really says.
     
  2. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Hold up... You missed all of the writings that start with “to the twelve tribes” or to the “diaspora”?

    Hebrew to Revelation all carry overt Jewish imagery and dedications.

    Revelation is specifically written with the mosaic tabernacle in mind. The horns and symbols revolve around feast days and such.

    The 7 candlestick lampstand ... Ancient Jewish Menorah

    Bowls? Priestly ceremonies of the Jews...


    And... drum roll...Jesus... Jewish! King of the Jews...
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  3. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    In those cases where the NT needs us to understand something Jewish, it tells us.

    And Jesus is King of the Universe. He is my King.
     
  4. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    With the Ottoman capture of Constantinople, Europe was effectively cut off from Asia. There had been trade, travel, and contact with "the Orient", with the fall of Constantinople that was cut off. Which is what led to the Portuguese trying to find an alternative route around Africa to India, and was the impetus for Columbus' voyage (because he thought the earth was smaller than it was and that he could reach India without needing to restock on a sailing voyage West). Maybe you could say that God allowed this for the discovery of the Americas--but why cut off contact with Asia? It took a couple centuries for Europe to regain contact with Asia--through the Portuguese and the Dutch who were vying for control of the Indian Ocean. And certainly it would have been possible for God to have permitted another historical avenue for contact with the Americas; after all Scandinavians had reached Canada by 1,000 AD and the voyages of Columbus resulted in wholesale barbarism, the raping, murder, and enslavement of the native Arawak people.

    You can argue all you want, but the course of future history is simply unknown and unknowable. History has not been one linear line of progress, it has been a bumpy, fractured, and sometimes backward moving endeavor. Empires rise and empires fall. Civilizations come and civilizations go. The rise and fall of nations has never been an impediment to God, and should our civilization come to an end, the Gospel will continue to be preached right up until the day Christ comes, whether in a hundred years or in ten thousand years.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  5. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the King of the Universe... and I’ll even add beyond time and space.

    But... INRI is very specific and there is a specific reason it was written on the Cross... before He died.

    The words at the end of Matthew 23 ... “until you say ‘blessed’ is He Who comes in The Name of the Lord”... carry significant importance.

    Romans 9-11 does as well... but Romans 11:25-36 especially...

    Romans 11 is a Covenant theologians worst nightmare... and 8-11 ... well the meassage is quite clear and shifts between national Israel, believing Jews, unbelieving Jews and the Gentile age Church.

    Powerful stuff. But... dispensational dialogue muddles the simplicity of it all. It’s best taken with the idea that as the Jews thought the Gentiles were out of luck... so the Gentiles now think the Jews are out of luck...

    But His Mercy supersedes all human Comprehension... infact Romans 11:30-36 drives this hime.
     
  6. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! The fall of Constantinople to the Islamic Empire was the cutting off of the Military Papacy and thus the final blow to National Rome. The Ottoman Empire is indeed the 7th of the Empires we read of.

    Empire One... Egypt... oppressor of Israel
    Empire Two... Assyria..oppressor of Israel
    Empire 3...... Babylon ... oppressor of Israel
    Empire 4...... Persia ...... oppressor of Israel
    Empire 5...... Greece .....oppressor of Israel
    Empire 6...... Rome ... oppressor of Israel
    Empire 7...... Islamic Ottomans ... oppressor of Israel

    And the 8th is one of the 7. ... guess
     
  7. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    Who were the 120 who waited in the upper room?

    15In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, “Brothers and sisters, the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.” (Acts 1:15-17)

    The Acts of the Apostles is a book documenting events sequentially. At this point Peter would not associate with the Gentles until the Holy Spirit rebuked him and instructed him to go to Cornelius's house in Acts 10.

    Here Peter repents of his negative outlook of the Gentiles by saying the following.....

    34Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

    44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

    Then Peter said, 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10)

    No friend, it started as a Jewish movement and was passed to the Gentiles and ever since the 1st hour Jewish workmen and women, the Gentiles have been coming to their full numbers, from every nation and every language.

    The text is authored within a Jewish context of Culture and Jewish context of Situation.
     
  8. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    Who were the recipients of the phrase of not knowing the day or hour?

    They were all Jews. The 12 disciples.
     
  9. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    This doesn't make it right.

    If you really want to make a biblical logical guess at who it is... the Pope is a Jesuit. He is also of Roman descent.....You could easily base a case on other aspects of this man, his position and his motifs and claim the same about him......

    The Anti Christ will be "reveled" He will not be predicted, found our or determined by any man.
     
  10. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    He has been revealed... in God's Word.

    The men quoted above were not just some casual readers of the Bible... they were diligent students being lead by the Holy Spirit and they knew far more intimately the abuses of the Papacy in their day and how it related to prophesy revealed in scripture.
     
  11. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    Oh.... but I mean by name. Do you have a name? Trump? The Pope? Oprah? LOL described but not yet reveled.
     
  12. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Daniel's dream describes a little horn that arises from among the ten horns of the fourth terrible beast. The little horn power represents the Antichrist and is described in Daniel's dream with great detail so that we can clearly identify who this end-time enemy will be. Since we don't want to make any mistake, it is essential that we correctly identify this power.

    Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:

    1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
    2. It came up among the ten horns.
    3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
    4. It was to uproot three horns.
    5. It was to be greater than the others.
    6. It was to be different than the others.
    7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
    8. It was to make war on God's saints.
    9. It would think to change times and laws.
    10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
    11. It shall devour the whole earth.
    12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
    13. Its dominion will be taken away.

    The Antichrist power has to fulfill all of the characteristics given in the Bible. It cannot meet only some of them. Thirteen times in the above articles, we see how the papal system qualifies for all the identifying points of the little horn power of Daniel 7, as sad and shocking as it may seem. It is essential that we realize that the Bible is not dealing with individuals, but with a religious and political system that for more than 1500 years has claimed the power to control the planet’s conscience. Moreover, for a set time, it had power to enforce its decrees and to persecute all who chose to obey God and His Word. This can be seen clearly in the Sunday-Sabbath issue

    The Bible is dealing with a power that is misusing its position, and presuming to take the very place of God. Individuals are responsible to God for the light they live up to. In condemning the system, God is not condemning the individuals within the system who are living up to light they have and long to have a relationship with Him.

    There is only one system that meets all the identifying features listed in Daniel chapter 7, and this is the Papacy.

    We'll unpack each of the above points showing there is only one possible answer to the question of who/what the antichrist/beast power is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  13. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    1. It arose out of the fourth beast.

    After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn (Daniel 7:7-8).

    Papal Rome arose out of the ashes of pagan Rome. Historian Carl Eckhardt says this:

    When the Roman empire had disintegrated and its place had been taken by a number of rude, barbarous kingdoms, the Roman Catholic Church not only became independent of the state in religious affairs but dominated secular affairs as well.
    i

    All historians agree that papal Rome emerged out of the ruins of the ancient pagan Roman Empire. Thomas Hobbes, English Historian, says this:

    If a man consider the origin of this great ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the Papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof.
    ii

    The description of the little horn power is in connection with the fourth beast. This is very important, since there are many who adopt a
    preterist view of the Antichrist and would like to associate the Antichrist with Antiochus Epiphanes IV, a Greek king who persecuted the Jews and desecrated the temple. This would, however, not fit the prophecy, as the Antichrist is to arise out of the fourth beast, which is Rome.
     
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  14. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    2. It came up among the ten horns.

    I considered the ten horns and, behold, there came up among them another little horn (Daniel 7:8).

    Note that the little horn arises among the ten, which implies that the ten were already there when it arose and, all ten were still in existence when it made its appearance.

    The Antichrist was to come up among the ten horns, growing from a small power to the greatest. This is indeed true of the Papacy. After the initial fusing of Christianity with the pagan religions of the time, the bishop of Rome increased in power while the emperors of the Roman Empire supported him.

    Constantine was the first emperor to embrace Christianity, but he only cloaked himself with a veneer of the religion. In the year 533 AD, emperor Justinian decreed that the bishop of Rome was the spiritual leader of the Christian world.

    To qualify as a horn, this power must have the attributes of a kingdom, which indeed applies to the Vatican, which to this day is an independent state. Also, it arose amongst the powers of fallen Rome. The Europe that we know today is
    the remnant of the horn of Rome.
     
  15. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.

    After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn (Daniel 7:7-8).

    The Roman Catholic Church grew in power after Constantine accepted Christianity, but it did not control secular affairs until the Justinian decrees went into effect. The power of the bishop of Rome steadily increased and papal authority in secular affairs arose after the Barbarian division of Rome in 476 AD.

    The American Catholic Quarterly Review says this:

    Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of the barbarous hordes, the Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection, and asked him to rule them...and thus...commenced the temporal sovereignty of the popes. So, meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the vicar of Christ took up the sceptre to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages.i

    William Barry says this:

    The Pax Romana has ceased; it is a universal confusion. But wherever a Bishop holds his court, religion protects all that is left of the ancient order. A new Rome ascends slowly above the horizon…the heir of religion which it has overthrown; it assumes the outward splendour of the Caesars…The emperor is no more...But the Pontifex Maximus abides; he is now the Vicar of Christ, offering the old civilisation to the tribes of the North. He converts them to his creed, and they serve him as their Father and Judge Supreme. This is the Papal Monarchy, which in its power and its decline overshadows the history of Europe for a thousand years.ii

    The rise of the little horn occurred after the subdivision of Rome into ten powers in 476 AD. At this time, the little horn became firmly established in order to qualify as a horn, that is, to be a king or a kingdom:

    And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them (Daniel 7:24).
     
  16. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    4. It was to uproot three horns.

    I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots (Daniel 7:8).

    Three of the ten kingdoms were to be destroyed by the instigation of the little horn power. Only the Papacy fits this description. Three kingdoms that did not accept the papal mandates regarding Christ's divinity were literally uprooted and mercilessly destroyed. Although the doctrine of the divinity of Christ was correct, the method of dealing with it was not.

    Since the little horn made its appearance after the subdivision of Rome into ten different states (after 476 AD) but before the destruction of three of them because it arises among all ten, we now have a very definite time frame for the rise of the Antichrist power. The Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths were eliminated by the year 538 AD. This power was to arise between 476 AD and 538 AD.

    These conquests strengthened the hand of the Papacy, which was established by the year 538 AD. In that year, Vigilus, the bishop of Rome, ascended the papal throne under the protection of the Roman general Belisarius. The date for the establishment of papal Rome as an independent power can thus be pinned at 538 AD.
     
  17. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    5. It was to be greater than the others.

    …and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows (Daniel 7:20 NKJV). The power depicted by the little horn was greater than that of the others. This implies a position of political superiority. Although it began small, the little horn power was to become greater than all the other powers.

    The Papacy wielded greater power than any country or king. The Papacy has always interfered in political affairs. Countries were divided by papal decrees, and kings enthroned and dethroned by papal decrees.

    Since 800 AD, when Charlemagne received his crown from the Pope, the Papacy assumed power over kings and nations. In 1077, King Henry IV of Germany stood in the snow for three days before being permitted an audience with Pope Gregory VII. Likewise, in 1213 King John of England stood naked on a cold marble floor waiting for admission to the Pope's presence in order to apologize to him. Read King John's concession

    Note the testimony of a Catholic functionary:
    [T]he vicar of the incarnate Son of God, anointed high priest and supreme temporal ruler, (the Pope) sat in his tribunal impartially to judge between nation and nation, between people and prince, between sovereign and subject.i

    Luther wrote this:
    It is a horrible thing to behold the man who styles himself Christ's vice-gerent displaying a magnificence that no emperor can equal…He is (say they) the lord of the world! But Christ...has said, "My kingdom is not of this world." Can the dominions of a vicar extend beyond those of his superior?ii
     
  18. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    6. It was to be different than the others.

    ...He shall be different from the first ones (Daniel 7:24 NKJV).

    The Papacy is different from the pagan kingdoms before it, because it is both a political power and a religious power. Politically, the Vatican is a recognized state, complete with a traditional guard and its own postal service.

    The Vatican is the smallest state in the world, occupying a mere 100 acres, but it has one of the strongest diplomatic bodies in the world. Papal representatives sit in the capitals of the world, and in turn these countries have their representatives in the Vatican. The Pope is not only head of the Church, but also temporal sovereign of the Vatican state.

    The little horn represents a king or a kingdom different from all the previous kingdoms, which were secular kingdoms. The Papacy fits that role because it is both religious and political.
     
  19. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.

    ...behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things...And he shall speak great words against the Most High (Daniel 7:8,25).

    The little horn power is humankind rising up against God and speaking great words against Him. It refers to a system that defies God directly and sets itself up in opposition to God.

    It is significant that the little horn power is likened to a man. This same symbol was also applied to Babylon (Daniel 7:4). In Daniel 2, the king of Babylon was referred to as the head of gold. All power was vested in the king. His word was law, and he was considered a god.

    Similarly, in the great antitype, all power will once again be vested in one man who, as the spokesman for the system, will utter blasphemies and claim to be God. Papal power is seated in one man. At the Council of Trent, the decrees of the Pope are considered the very decrees of God. The doctrine of papal infallibility further expanded this concept and gave to the Popes a position that should only be given to God.
     
  20. EastCoastRemnant

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    8. It was to make war on God's saints.

    I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them (Daniel 7:21).

    Throughout history, the great wars of Europe were fought on religious grounds. The Protestants of Europe were relentlessly persecuted by Rome. Europe was plunged into the Thirty Years’ War with the sole purpose of destroying the Protestant Reformation.

    The Waldenses, Albigenses, and Huguenots were relentlessly persecuted, and the Inquisition ordered the cruelest of punishments to be executed by the princes of Europe upon all those who refused to bow to the supremacy of Rome. In 1200, AD Pope Innocent III ordered the king of France to exterminate the Albigenses because they refused to accept the papal teachings and regarded the Bible as the ultimate Word of God. Historians D'Augbigné and Wylie say that more than a million of these innocent people were massacred in one single campaign.

    John Calvin, in a letter to Emperor Charles V, wrote this:

    I deny that See to be...the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist.i

    In the 13th century, St. Thomas Aquinas said that convicted heretics should be put to death just as surely as other criminals, because they were counterfeits. In a 1912 Catholic magazine we read this:

    You cannot excite any piety in our souls by whining accounts of Catholic atrocities...We have never written a line in extenuation or palliation of the Inquisition. We never thought it needed a defence.ii

    The church historian Philip Schaff makes this comment:

    So far as we know, the popes never uttered a word in protest against the inhuman measures which were being practised by the Spanish Tribunals.iii

    The historian Lecky says this:

    The Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind.iv

    The little horn power was thus to be a persecuting power that would war against God's people, and have success against them.
     
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