Just a heads up: age of Grace is coming to an end

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

    The Jews were termed unbelievers simply because they didn't understand their own prophetic scriptures. But we have been given eyesalve to buy that we may see.

    The Jews had no conception of a suffering servant or of God manifested in the flesh. They had had so many signs and then silence. From out of the silence came numerous more prophetic things being fulfilled in front of their eyes.

    Matthew 1:23, Matthew 2:6, 15, 17, 23
    Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5:2, Hosea 11:1, Jeremiah 31:15, Isaiah 53:3

    These things that they must have heard about.
    Numbers 24:17, Matthew 2:2, Luke 1:11, Luke 1:26, Matthew 1:20, Luke 2:10-12

    Heaven, earth and hell were all stirred up at His arrival and all gave their testimony.

    The direct signs given to mankind were:

    - the Star of Bethlehem
    - Angelic ministry to Zacharias, Mary, Joseph, and the shepherds
    - Voices of the prophets

    Indirect signs given to mankind were:

    - Herod's terror at the magi's visit carrying gifts that indicated royalty
    - the slaughter of the innocents.

    You would think we would be more in tune with all the signs and prophesies being fulfilled in front of our eyes such as the return to homeland of the Jews, and what with all the bloodmoons falling on Holy Days as more signs in Israel .. that God is moving.

    Those former prophetic manifestations focused on Jesus' 1st coming, but now in these times these signs are leading to His second coming ... I guess some are paying attention ..
  2. Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

    United Kingdom
    Really! You know him do you? Waw!
  3. Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

    United States
    This is silly. I heard the crazy ideas that "oh, the signs, the signs" since I was a little kid, heck I was even lost in that system of see a sign around every corner and it can get you down. All Christ said was to watch, He did not say act all stupidly and try to predict His return. Gordon wishes he had 5 bucks for every time I heard that but one dollar for every time is sufficient because it ain't worth much else
  4. ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

    I get a kick out of reading old theology books when they talk about the end times and mention that the prophesies of the return of the Jews is sometime in the way future. I read alot of books prior to the event so it strikes me then that the day is approaching.
  5. gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

    Yep that is how stupid trying to do both are...
  6. gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

    I was trying to account for inflation.
  7. Radagast has left CF Supporter

    That's the opposite of what Paul says. He says nobody knows the time, but those who "live in the light" will be ready.
  8. The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    Scripture provides two types of people, that is the faithful servant who is always vigilant and waiting for him and lives his life, as if it is his last day in the earthly body and the other servant who says oh well, my Lord will probably delay his coming and not come anytime soon, so let me get sidetracked for the time being, by rolling around in the pig trough of the world, with the pigs of the world.

    The Lord's return is not dependant on the expectation of humanity, rather his return is appointed at the time, where the state of humanity has degraded to such a dire state of depravity and deboutchery that he will come to defend his Creation, that is uniquely tied to his Created Rights Image that humanity was Creatively patented in. Just like the days of Noah.

    We have a last day in the earthly body and await judgement at the appointment time, where Jesus opens the book and judges the quick and the dead. When an individual dies, they are in a holding pattern for the judgment to come, that is why Paul would say that all men are destined to die once, then judgment. So as far as the individual who dies and falls within the unfaithful category of not being vigilant as if it could have been his last day and that day turned out to be his last day in the earthly body, then that person cannot change his fate in his state and it would be by default his last day. Just like in a test situation, where after the time is up, what ever answers are provided on the paper will be used for the assessment and that no further entry on the paper is allowed after the end of the test, hence the end of the test for that individual.
  9. The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    This is the resultant misconception my friend, when imposing a western mindset interpretation upon the Jewish phrase. We are required to read the entire context and understand why Jesus said that and in what context.

    Let us look at the versus from another gospel writer.....

    32But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33Be on guard! Be alert ! You do not know when that time will come. 34It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.

    35“Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ” (Mark 13:32-37)

    The context is obviously clear as crystal, that is to say, though an individual does not know the day or the hour of his return, they must live everyday of their life, as if it is that day.

    Jesus mentions numerious times to be alert, be on guard, keep watch, keep watch, watch!

    The context conveys a sense of urgency and it is a no brainer, that though many faithful in the last 2000 years have past on from this temporal life, they would have also been recipients to that message and that message would have also validly applied to them.

    The misconception of the western mind, imposes an opposite meaning to the Jewish phrase, as compared to what the Semitic culture had intended it for, just like they write from right to left, the west write from left to right.

    The people who have passed on from this temporal life, have fallen asleep, and are awaiting judgment upon his return, when he opens the books. It would be like a test situation, when the time is up, no further entry can be made and what ever the individual had written on the paper cannot be changed. Since the Test has ended for that individual, the time (the day and hour phrase) has also come for that individual, who simply is awaiting his score after his test paper will be marked at a later date in the future. Paul states all men are destined to die once then Judgement.

    So we as Christian, no matter what is happening around us, must live with a sense of vigilance and urgency, that the day and hour can be today. When people remove this sense of urgency, by imposing a western mindset upon it, then it would be like an individual who does not even put pen to paper, thinking that they have plenty of time to finish the test.

    The events leading up to Christ's return has been a valid warning to every generation who have crossed the threshold as far as God is concerned and so to dismiss the generations before us as being alarmist is extremely naive and ignorant of the context of Christ's message in its entirety.

    What purpose would an individual have who tries to defuse or disarm an alarmist who preaches Jesus is coming now?

    It would be likened to an individual who says there is plenty of time to finish the life test paper, so just hang back for a while, no need to be alarmed by what is going on in the world and society around us.

    An individual who dismisses the fact that the day and hour for the countless generations before him/her has already come and all that awaits is the results from the marking/judging of their life test papers, is in fact administering spiritual anaesthetic. Since a Christian has a date with the bridegroom, if someone is administering spiritual anaesthetic before that date, then they are spiritually date raping that individual before he has the date with the bridegroom.

    What follows is my conjecture......

    What if.......I mean......what if.......every generation is given by Jesus a different life test situation, meaning regardless of generations prior or after them, their test paper is the worldly situation within their generation and they are solely tested and marked according to those test conditions and that Life test paper. This would mean that throughout the last 2000 years there must be as many test papers as there are generations. It would be a logical claim, because test papers change from year to year and yet Jesus changes them from generation to generation. How could we be judged to the situation of say those who lived 1000 years before us? Because their test situation would have been different.

    In conclusion, the day and the hour must therefore be applicable to every generation that passes and it is based on those life test conditions that individuals are tested/judged upon. So every generation who are alert, on guard, keeping watch, keeping watch, watching!
    ........ as Jesus said......

    It would be valid to conclude that we are a generation out of many previous to us, if not the generation that are living in the last day and the last hour of testing uniquely for our generation. John and the apostles would have his generation as the last hour generation and so forth. This means until the last trumpet is sounded and time no longer declared, the day and the hour has certainly come for generations previous to ours and will certainly also come for our generation, regardless to whether we are a generation out of many previous to us, or the generation leading to the final trumpet.

    So to call any Christian an alarmist is counterproductive to the body of Christ and is likened to injecting a person with spiritual anaesthesia, so that they fail to sit and to complete their life test paper for their generation. This would be why Jesus alluded to such people as the five foolish virgins who did not purchase oil to trim their lamps and were caught out when their life test generation time expired at 12:00 o'clock.

    So are we living in the last day and the last hour, when we see homosexuality being promoted publically, the definition of family being destroyed, the definition of gender being destroyed, the definition of marriage being destroyed and the definition of what it is to be human, being destroyed?


    If an individual is dismissing the last day and the last hour we are living in, then they are wilfully disarming the alarmist watchful Christian and it would not be surprising that they are also not opposed to the enemies attack upon the Image of God, rather are showing love and support for the attacks on God. This to me is totally and utterly outrageous!

    Have these people, just like the five foolish virgins miserably failed their life test situation, within their last day and the last hour generation?

    I would be lying if I answered No!

    Do you know what Jesus implied when he said....

    What I say to you, I say to everyone.

    We are to interpret it as.....

    What I say to you my disciples, I say to every generation that comes after you, even to the last, before my brilliantly coming.
  10. JacksBratt Searching for Truth

    I am in no way trying to say that you did. I just wanted to state my view and some more information that I have been made aware of.
  11. JacksBratt Searching for Truth

    Well, that may be how you see it.

    Did you read the commentary?
  12. EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

    All the protestant reformers proclaimed who the antichrist was... check it out.

    Nicolaus Von Amsdorf (1483 - 1565)
    "He (the antichrist) will be revealed and come to naught before the last day, so that every man shall comprehend and recognize that the pope is the real, true antichrist and not the vicar of Christ ... Therefore those who consider the pope and his bishops as Christian shepherds and bishops are deeply in error, but even more are those who believe the the Turk (ISLAM) is the antichrist. Because the Turk (ISLAM) rules outside of the church and does not sit in the holy place, nor does he seek to bear the name of Christ, but is an open antagonist of Christ and His church. This does not need to be revealed, but it is clear and evident because he persecutes Christians openly and not as the pope does, secretly under the form of Godliness." (Nicolaus Von Amsdorf, Furnemliche und gewisse Zeichen, sig.A2r.,v.)

    Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
    "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." (Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197)

    Flacius (1570)
    "The sixth and last reason for our separation from the pope and his followers be this; By many writings of our church, by the Divinely inspired Word, by prophecies concerning the future and by the special characteristics of the Papacy, it has been profusely and thoroughly proved that the pope with his prelates and clergy is the real true great antichrist, that his kingdom is the real Babylon, a never ceasing fountain and a mother of all abominable idolatry." (Flacius, Etliche Hochwichtige Ursachen und Grunde, warum das siche alle Christen von dem Antichrist ... absondern sollen)

    Georg Nigrinus (1530 - 1602)
    "The Jesuits claim to be sorely offended and have taken my declarations as an insult and blasphemy in branding the Papacy as the antichrist of which Daniel, Paul, Peter, John and even Christ prophesied. But this is as true as it is that Jesus is the Messiah, and I am prepared to show it even by their own definition of the word 'antichrist'." (Translated from "Nigrinus, Antichrists Grundliche Offenbarung" fol. 6v.)

    "This Jesuit further contends that the Papacy cannot be antichrist because the Papacy has lasted for centuries, but that the antichrist is supposed to reign only for 3 1/2 years ... But no one doubts today that Daniel spoke of YEAR-DAYS, not literal days ... The prophetic time-periods of forty-two months, 1260 days, 1, 2, 1/2 times are prophetic, and according to Ezekiel 4, a day must be taken for a year." (Translated from "Nigrinus, Antichrists Grundliche Offenbarung" fols.28v. 29r.)

    John Calvin (1509 - 1564)
    "Though it be admitted that Rome was once the mother of all Churches, yet from the time when it began to be the seat of Antichrist it has ceased to be what it was before. Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt .. I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." (Institutes of the Christian Religion, Vol.3, p.149)

    John Knox (1505 - 1572)
    Yea, to speak it in plain words; lest that we submit ourselves to Satan, thinking that we submit ourselves to Jesus Christ, for, as for your Roman kirk, as it is now corrupted, and the authority thereof, whereon stands the hope of your victory, I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof, called the pope, to be that man of sin, of whom the apostle speaks." (John Knox, The History of the Reformation of Religion in Scotland, p.65)

    Thomas Cranmer (1489 - 1556)
    "Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of Antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Works by Cranmer, vol.1, pp.6-7)

    Roger Williams (1603 - 1683)
    Pastor Williams spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition." (The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52)

    The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
    "The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ." (1689 Baptist Confession of Faith)

    The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646)
    "There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalts himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God." (1646 Westminster Confession of Faith)

    John Wesley (1703 - 1791)
    "... In many respects, the Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled, the son of perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers, destroyed innumerable souls, and will himself perish everlastingly. He it is that opposeth himself to the emperor, once his rightful sovereign; and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped - Commanding angels, and putting kings under his feet, both of whom are called gods in scripture; claiming the highest power, the highest honour; suffering himself, not once only, to be styled God or vice-God. Indeed no less is implied in his ordinary title, "Most Holy Lord," or, "Most Holy Father." So that he sitteth - Enthroned. In the temple of God - Mentioned Rev. xi, 1. Declaring himself that he is God - Claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon The New Testament, p.216)

    Charles Spurgeon (1834 - 1892)
    "It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description."

    "Popery is contrary to Christ’s Gospel, and is the Antichrist, and we ought to pray against it. It should be the daily prayer of every believer that Antichrist might be hurled like a millstone into the flood and for Christ, because it wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Saviour, and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Ghost, and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the vicar of Christ on earth; if we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors: we shall love their souls though we loath and detest their dogmas, and so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened, because we turn our faces towards Christ when we pray." (Michael de Semlyen, All Roads Lead to Rome)
  13. EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

    Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, . . . redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Ephesians 5:14-16.

    We are living in the most solemn period of this world's history. The destiny of earth's teeming multitudes is about to be decided. . . . We need to be guided by the Spirit of truth. . .

    Many are deceived as to their true condition before God. They congratulate themselves upon the wrong acts which they do not commit, and forget to enumerate the good and noble deeds which God requires of them, but which they have neglected to perform. It is not enough that they are trees in the garden of God. They are to answer His expectation by bearing fruit. He holds them accountable for their failure to accomplish all the good which they could have done, through His grace strengthening them. In the books of heaven they are registered as cumberers of the ground. Yet the case of even this class is not utterly hopeless. With those who have slighted God's mercy and abused His grace, the heart of long-suffering love yet pleads. "Wherefore . . . awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, . . . redeeming the time, because the days are evil" (Ephesians 5:14-16).

    When the testing time shall come, those who have made God's Word their rule of life, will be revealed. In summer there is no noticeable difference between evergreens and other trees; but when the blasts of winter come, the evergreens remain unchanged, while other trees are stripped of their foliage. So the falsehearted professor may not now be distinguished from the real Christian, but the time is just upon us when the difference will be apparent. Let opposition arise, let bigotry and intolerance again bear sway, let persecution be kindled, and the halfhearted and hypocritical will waver and yield the faith; but the true Christian will stand firm as a rock, his faith stronger, his hope brighter, than in days of prosperity.

    Says the psalmist: "Thy testimonies are my meditation." "Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way" (Psalm 119:99, 104).

    "Happy is the man that findeth wisdom." "He shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit" (Proverbs 3:13; Jeremiah 17:8)
    (The Great Controversy, pp. 601, 602).
  14. Radagast has left CF Supporter

    Actually, the NT is written in Greek.

    That's pretty much what I said. Obviously, I agree.

    Like I said, the NT is written in Greek.

    I have very little patience with people who say that the Holy Spirit wrote the NT wrong, and that He actually meant something different, because someone has a theory about the "original Semitic phrase."

    But that's no reason to invent false "signs." The truth is, we have no idea when Christ will return.
  15. Radagast has left CF Supporter

    "Blood moons" always happen on a full moon.

    Most Jewish "Holy Days" always happen on a full moon.

    It is quite common for them to happen on the same full moon. This is not a "sign."
  16. Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    United States
    Grips End times Journal

    Day two... nearing end of the age of grace... preparing for zombie apocalypse...

    Stubbed toe... used “my little pony” band-aid to cushion bruising. (Does that make me a brony?)

    Sold the farm and now only own 4 pairs of Sox and 2 pairs of underwear...

    Personal note... Sox May be worn inside out... thus leveraging 4 pairs to 8 days (200% gain).. while under wear can be rotated front to back and inside out, thus, again leveraging 2 pairs to 8 days (400% gain)

    Have pocket knife, but afraid guns may be tracked by zombie tracking system... will rely on 3 inch blade for safety.

    Using military boots and wwjd t-shirt for clothing. Not sure if Jorts (Man Jean Shorts) or Jeans say ... “Christian and not taking the mark of the beast” more.

    Bringing Ramen Noodles and Wheat thins for survival food.

    Hope day 0 is near... forgot blankets and jacket... December weather is a little colder than I thought... fortunately... God has never allowed a single Christian to ever be uncomfortable... anywhere... especially if they’re American!
  17. AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    The prophecy was about knowledge, not "literally any and every incident of technological progress". You can't deny the argument of my post is fulfillment of the Daniel's prophecy. Man will never get to the point of the Matrix upload. That is a bigger challenge than AI equivalency to humans.
    You fantasize to prolong the misery. You do realize that the shrinking of the world, increased interactions and commerce among all the continents is effective in God's plan to spread his word to whole world? Why would God reset this and delay his coming?
  18. AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

    Sorry, no rapture of the Church. No 1000 years of Christ physically on earth. Despite what you say, the text clearly says we, the Church, should look forward to that day. That means members of the Church will be present/alive with current physical bodies on the last day.
  19. The Times Well-Known Member

    Eastern Orthodox
    The New Testament is a Jewish text, authored by the 1st Century Jewish Apostolic Church, within a Jewish cultural context and translated in the Greek.

    To understand the context of culture, you would need to consider phrases, meanings and context of situation from a Jewish context of culture and not that of the Greek.


    It might as well been written in Chinese, yet it still would have to be interpreted and understood from a Jewish cultural context and context of situation of the 1st century Jewish Apostolic Church.

    The Holy Spirit inspired Jewish disciples, who would first preach to the Jews and later to the gentiles through Paul. It is the case, where you wrongly understand the text, because you read the text from a western cultural context and try to relate it to the context of situation of the western world today.

    The Holy Spirit meant exactly what I described in post #109....

    Just a heads up: age of Grace is coming to an end

    The original Semitic phrase has context of urgency to all New Testament generations and is valid for all NT generations.

    It would be preposterous to think that Jesus and the Holy Spirit had coined the phrase and its applicability to only an end day generation before his return. Jesus made the 1st century disciples the recipients of the phrase.

    If both the Full Preterists and the Futurists have limited the phrase to only apply to the 1st Century recipients or alternately to the return of Jesus recipients, then they are negating all the generations inbetween. In fact John states......

    18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18)

    28And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. (1 John 2:28)

    We know from scripture that the 1st Century Jewish Apostles were recipients of the phrase, but unlike Preterists, we know with certainty that it has to also apply to all generations until Christ's return.

    We do not know when Christ returns, but you can be rest assured that if you keel over and die today, your day and hour has already come. In fact the guarantee is, that this generations and all previous generations and future generations will also be recipients of the last day and the last hour.
  20. Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    United States
    It binds to Romans 11:25-36... when the full number of gentiles come in...

    I understand Jerusalem is a big deal and that there is blood in the Islamic waters now... but... the fact is... it will snap like a snare and we don’t know the day or the hour.

    The signs could take years to line up. Sure it could happen soon... but it could be another 1000 or more years....

    I will say this much... I’m thankful to see Jerusalem recognized for what it is.