Jumpy Cops Shoot/Kill Another Non-Threatening Citizen After False Alarm

[whatbogsends]

Think about it.

If you are already afraid enough to carry a gun when you go to your door in the middle of the night why would he believe it was the police even when they said so provided he even heard them in the first place ?

Then they stood aside the door - for safety reasons presumably - so he couldn’t even see them from the inside.

Criminals, being the clever and dastardly types, presumably could lie and deceive about their identities and intent.

Well, guess they could have both yelled through the door how everyone is armed and ready to fire hopefully without anyone panicking and starting to fire through the door.

People have guns to keep them safe. Obviously, the gun helps keep you safe if you open the door and the gun is tucked safely away in your safe. Oh, wait. That won't help you...

People have guns to keep them safe. Taking it to open the door helps you protect yourself, and if you follow the orders of police that arrive, you'll be just fine. Oh, wait. That doesn't seem to work out either...

It's simple, really. You need to have a gun to be safe, but you need to also have the forethought to know when you will need to defend yourself vs. when the police will show up at your door for no apparent reason.

 

[whatbogsends]

I am more and more convinced that you should never get near a gun. You will have to hope that someone with a gun is around to protect you if you need it. I can tell you that the only thing that is going to stop a killer with a gun is a well trained citizen with a gun.

The only thing that will stop a police officer with a gun is a citizen without a gun. At least hopefully. A cell phone might be mistaken for a gun.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The only thing that will stop a police officer with a gun is a citizen without a gun. At least hopefully. A cell phone might be mistaken for a gun.

This situation obviously needed more citizens with guns.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

But we all know that people should submit to the police before they're warned or realize they're police. By the time the cops identify themselves and give orders, it's too late. People deserve to get shot for not having that forethought.

About that. What do those stand your ground laws say if you just blast some cops through your front door before they announce themselves or just claim you didn’t hear it ?

Actually what do they say if you just say that of course you knew they were cops, which made you afraid knowing how fast they go for their guns and you decided to defend yourself before they got their guns out by killing them ?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

This situation obviously needed more citizens with guns.

Yeah, imagine if the woman had a gun as well. Everyone would have felt much safer.

 

[Nithavela]

About that. What do those stand your ground laws say if you just blast some cops through your front door before they announce themselves or just claim you didn’t hear it ?

Actually what do they say if you just say that of course you knew they were cops, which made you afraid knowing how fast they go for their guns and you decided to defend yourself before they got their guns out by killing them ?

Who cares what the law says?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Who cares what the law says?

I am sure some lawyers need to do case studies at least.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

This situation obviously needed more citizens with guns.

A good guy with a gun to stop the good guys with guns from shooting a good guy with a gun...

 

[Aryeh Jay]

But we all know that people should submit to the police before they're warned or realize they're police. By the time the cops identify themselves and give orders, it's too late. People deserve to get shot for not having that forethought.

Or, at least that's what the people on the right keep insisting in these threads, in not so many words.

I sometimes hear "Blah,blah, blah, Castle Doctrine" and " Blah, blah blah, to protect us from a tyrannical government".

 

[HantsUK]

Well compare the UK’s burglary rate to America’s burglary rate. The UK is at 356,000 burglaries per year compared to America’s 1.2 million. But when you figure in that America’s population is 6 times that of the UK and the UK’s burglary rate is only 3 times less than America’s then it becomes apparent that the UK has twice the burglary rate as America. Probably because if someone is going to burglarize a home here in America they have to contemplate the possibility of someone having a gun whereas in the UK they don’t have to worry about it. Just the thought that the home your about to break into could potentially be your last is quite a deterrent.

Trying to compare statistics between countries is notoriously difficult. Unless you are comparing like for like, which is very unlikely, then comparisons can be misleading. Definitions are often different. Willingness to report crimes ('successful' or attempted) can make a big difference. The latest figures for England, for the 12 months ending Q1 2020, give 4.25 reported residential burglaries per 1,000 population. (see Residential burglary (offences per 1,000 population) in England | LG Inform) . Crime survey figures are generally worse. The figures quoted above calculate to about 8.5 per 1000 population - about double.

London has about 2 1/2 times the rate of burglaries then the North West.

From the figures quotes in the post, I don't think you can draw any meaningful comparisons. Where you live in the UK or USA will be more significant than which country.

Even if the UK has a (slightly) higher rate of burglaries, I would still prefer that, as most criminals here are not armed, to a potentially armed US intruder. (In the UK, the most common entry is through an unlocked front door in daylight, i.e. opportunist).

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Probably because if someone is going to burglarize a home here in America they have to contemplate the possibility of someone having a gun whereas in the UK they don’t have to worry about it. Just the thought that the home your about to break into could potentially be your last is quite a deterrent.

If that were true, then Japan's home burglary rate should be many times that of the US, and yet, the US is 3 times higher.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Who cares what the law says?

Not those out rioting since May and the liberal mayors....that's for certain.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Trying to compare statistics between countries is notoriously difficult. Unless you are comparing like for like, which is very unlikely, then comparisons can be misleading. Definitions are often different. Willingness to report crimes ('successful' or attempted) can make a big difference. The latest figures for England, for the 12 months ending Q1 2020, give 4.25 reported residential burglaries per 1,000 population. (see Residential burglary (offences per 1,000 population) in England | LG Inform) . Crime survey figures are generally worse. The figures quoted above calculate to about 8.5 per 1000 population - about double.

London has about 2 1/2 times the rate of burglaries then the North West.

From the figures quotes in the post, I don't think you can draw any meaningful comparisons. Where you live in the UK or USA will be more significant than which country.

Even if the UK has a (slightly) higher rate of burglaries, I would still prefer that, as most criminals here are not armed, to a potentially armed US intruder. (In the UK, the most common entry is through an unlocked front door in daylight, i.e. opportunist).

Yeah it’s really not an option now that there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation in the US. Disarming citizens at this point would only result in disarming law abiding citizens leaving them vulnerable to attack by armed criminals who obviously won’t relinquish their guns. Another thing to consider is that in the past other countries have abandoned plans for invasion on American soil solely because of the number of armed citizens. Then there’s also numerous cases where armed citizens have come to the aide of victims and apprehended or killed criminals who were threatening the lives of others.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If that were true, then Japan's home burglary rate should be many times that of the US, and yet, the US is 3 times higher.

Lol have you seen Japanese homes? We have closets here in America that are bigger than most Japanese homes.

 

[Nithavela]

Lol have you seen Japanese homes? We have closets here in America that are bigger than most Japanese homes.

Any other factors besides average guns per household or apartment size that might play into the number of burglaries?

 

[JohnDB]

Lol have you seen Japanese homes? We have closets here in America that are bigger than most Japanese homes.

PRC hotel rooms are worse...
I have closets in my apartment that are larger than hotel rooms. Sleeping with a toilet by your head is a completely new experience. (Squat pot and not a regular toilet)

 

[BNR32FAN]

Any other factors besides average guns per household or apartment size that might play into the number of burglaries?

Yeah probably the poverty rates and average household income would also be determining factors i would presume.

 

[Nithavela]

Yeah probably the poverty rates and average household income would also be determining factors i would presume.

Anything else?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Another thing to consider is that in the past other countries have abandoned plans for invasion on American soil solely because of the number of armed citizens.

That sounds total fantasy but feel free to provide a link.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Anything else?

Probably