Judging Others

[durangodawood]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
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I dont understand this. Arent we all to be judged anyway?
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Do we somehow escape God's judgement if we refrain from judging others?
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[Bear.Fr00t]

If you read it carefully, the message is essentially "don't be a hypocrite". The Bible instructs Christians to judge right and wrong. This "dont't judge" issue is often misinterpreted by those who lack Biblical wisdom and knowledge. This has nothing to do with salvation, and avoiding the final judgement. The final judgement is done by God who has infinite wisdome and knowledge.

 

[abysmul]

I'd first suggest reading more of the associated verses:

Matthew 7

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Judging Others

7 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.


There's a lesson on hypocrisy there, IMHO.

 

[durangodawood]

If you read it carefully, the message is essentially "don't be a hypocrite". The Bible instructs Christians to judge right and wrong. This "dont't judge" issue is often misinterpreted by those who lack Biblical wisdom and knowledge. This has nothing to do with salvation, and avoiding the final judgement. The final judgement is done by God who has infinite wisdome and knowledge.

So when Jesus says "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged", the "you will be judged" refers to the way other people will judge you? Its not about how God will judge you?
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[Bear.Fr00t]

So when Jesus says "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged", the "you will be judged" refers to the way other people will judge you? Its not about how God will judge you?
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Your original messaged mentioned "escaping" judgement by not judging others. God certainly will take all of your actions into consideration, including judging others while you practice the behavior you condemn.

 

[abysmul]

Your original messaged mentioned "escaping" judgement by not judging others. God certainly will take all of your actions into consideration, including judging others while you practice the behavior you condemn.

Very well put.

There will be no escape from our final judgement.

 

[durangodawood]

Your original messaged mentioned "escaping" judgement by not judging others. God certainly will take all of your actions into consideration, including judging others while you practice the behavior you condemn.

So if you DONT practice what you condemn.... go ahead and judge others?
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[abysmul]

So if you DONT practice what you condemn.... go ahead and judge others?
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The verse you quoted, as has been pointed out, is actually part of a larger section of verses; that collection of verses are really a lesson about hypocrisy. I don't think it is really something meant to be picked out and used as justification for or against judging others.

 

[durangodawood]

The verse you quoted, as has been pointed out, is actually part of a larger section of verses; that collection of verses are really a lesson about hypocrisy. I don't think it is really something meant to be picked out and used as justification for or against judging others.

But Jesus introduces all those verses with the very strong sounding: Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
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There's an emphasis there on judgement thats undeniable. But I hear others shifting the emphasis to hypocrisy.
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[Bear.Fr00t]

Verses 3-5 help qualify the judging part. How about an example?

Many Christians like to judge homosexuals while they sit home and watch inappropriate content. So these Christians have a plank in their eye while they point out the homosexual spec in others eyes. These Christians will have to answer for their "judgements against sexual immorality" while they practice their own perversions.

 

[QueSi]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
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I dont understand this. Arent we all to be judged anyway?
.
Do we somehow escape God's judgement if we refrain from judging others?
.

Jesus did say the two most important rules were to love God above all and to love everyone equally as our brother, neighbor and self. To love is to understand and not judge.

 

[QueSi]

Verses 3-5 help qualify the judging part. How about an example?

Many Christians like to judge homosexuals while they sit home and watch inappropriate content. So these Christians have a plank in their eye while they point out the homosexual spec in others eyes. These Christians will have to answer for their "judgements against sexual immorality" while they practice their own perversions.

Well put, just like the stone, it is only to be thrown if you have never sinned.

 

[durangodawood]

Verses 3-5 help qualify the judging part. How about an example?

Many Christians like to judge homosexuals while they sit home and watch inappropriate content. So these Christians have a plank in their eye while they point out the homosexual spec in others eyes. These Christians will have to answer for their "judgements against sexual immorality" while they practice their own perversions.

So, regarding those life-areas in which you feel confident of your own correctness, you can go ahead and judge others?
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[trulyconverted]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
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I dont understand this. Arent we all to be judged anyway?
.
Do we somehow escape God's judgement if we refrain from judging others?
.

The context about this in the bible is that the Christians can judge those inside the church but only God judges those outside the church.

1 Cor 6:
1 When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?
2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!
4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church?
5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,
6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers?
7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?
8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud-even your own brothers!

 

[durangodawood]

The context about this in the bible is that the Christians can judge those inside the church but only God judges those outside the church.

1 Cor 6:
1 When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?
2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!
4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church?
5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,
6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers?
7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?
8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud-even your own brothers!

This turns the Bible as I know it upside-down.
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I thought Jesus was the context for Paul... and not the other way around.
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[Harry3142]

durangodawood-

Jesus himself identified certain actions and motivations as 'unclean,' and so not to be entertained:

He went on, "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' (The Gospel of St. Mark 7:20-23,NIV)

This kind of behavior Jesus did not approve of, nor were his disciples to approve of such behavior. These 'uncleannesses' also have one thing in common; they all require that the person deliberately focus on them. Unlike 'stumbling along the way' as other shortcomings would involve, these needed for the attention of the person entertaining them to be focused on them as a conscious state of mind, and even a plan of action.

We need to remember that the vast majority of Jesus' teachings, including the admonition not to judge, were directed at fellow Jews. As such their society was an extremely legalistic one, so much so that they even charged Jesus himself with violating the Sabbath because he healed on that day. Under their legalism that commandment alone had over 1,000 laws attached to it, and certain sects taught that in order to obey that one commandment as it should be obeyed, every one of those 1,000+ laws needed to be obeyed.

With such a society it was not enough to simply tell them to lighten up. Jesus had to take them the other way. In 1965 I heard a rabbi describe it as bending a reed in the opposite direction as far as it was originally bent in order to cause it to eventually straighten. It would not be enough to bend that reed just to the point where they wanted it to be, namely, straight. They would have to bend it past the straight point in the opposite direction as far as it was originally bent in the other direction. Only then would it return to its correct point.

Jesus applied the same logic to his society. They were extremely legalistic, with everyone nitpicking. The way to correct that was to forbid them to judge anyone. Following that absolute ban on judgementalism their society would return to the point where they should be.

 

[ViaCrucis]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
.
I dont understand this. Arent we all to be judged anyway?
.
Do we somehow escape God's judgement if we refrain from judging others?
.

If I condemn you for doing something, and I do it myself (which is usually the case in life) then we can expect to face that at the Judgment. The point is, much like not pointing out the speck in our brother's eye while we have a log in our own, to realize our own mess rather than focusing on the mess others may have.

We should esteem ourselves the chief of sinners.

It's noteworthy, I think, to add that this does not mean refusing to recognize wrongdoing and injustice elsewhere and amongst others; but rather it means not to act as though we are somehow less guilty than others.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[durangodawood]

durangodawood-

Jesus himself identified certain actions and motivations as 'unclean,' and so not to be entertained:

He went on, "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' (The Gospel of St. Mark 7:20-23,NIV)

This kind of behavior Jesus did not approve of, nor were his disciples to approve of such behavior. These 'uncleannesses' also have one thing in common; they all require that the person deliberately focus on them. Unlike 'stumbling along the way' as other shortcomings would involve, these needed for the attention of the person entertaining them to be focused on them as a conscious state of mind, and even a plan of action.

We need to remember that the vast majority of Jesus' teachings, including the admonition not to judge, were directed at fellow Jews. As such their society was an extremely legalistic one, so much so that they even charged Jesus himself with violating the Sabbath because he healed on that day. Under their legalism that commandment alone had over 1,000 laws attached to it, and certain sects taught that in order to obey that one commandment as it should be obeyed, every one of those 1,000+ laws needed to be obeyed.

With such a society it was not enough to simply tell them to lighten up. Jesus had to take them the other way. In 1965 I heard a rabbi describe it as bending a reed in the opposite direction as far as it was originally bent in order to cause it to eventually straighten. It would not be enough to bend that reed just to the point where they wanted it to be, namely, straight. They would have to bend it past the straight point in the opposite direction as far as it was originally bent in the other direction. Only then would it return to its correct point.

Jesus applied the same logic to his society. They were extremely legalistic, with everyone nitpicking. The way to correct that was to forbid them to judge anyone. Following that absolute ban on judgementalism their society would return to the point where they should be.

Thanks for the very considerate reply (and to everyone else too, for your effort).
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Its too easy to forget that Jesus has a special audience that was culturally and religiously quite different from us today. There's an almost overwhelming tendency to imagine His words directed to a sort of universal-everyperson. of course no such person exists.
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As for this part:

Unlike 'stumbling along the way' as other shortcomings would involve, these needed for the attention of the person entertaining them to be focused on them as a conscious state of mind, and even a plan of action.

I dont at all agree that "malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly" require special planning or attention. They are often almost unconscious drives or responses to situations.
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[Sophrosyne]

Too many try to say the scripture means.... no judging for Christians, but I tend to say it has the means such that think of yourself being the one judged when you are judging others. If you judge harshly and unfairly without mercy then others will want to return the favor when they judge you likewise but if you judge fairly and honestly with mercy then others will be fair and honest and merciful when it comes to judging you.
It essentially warns people that unless you want to open yourself up to judgment.... keep your mouth shut.

 

[Fireinfolding]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
.
I dont understand this. Arent we all to be judged anyway?
.
Do we somehow escape God's judgement if we refrain from judging others?
.

Here and elsewhere speaks of a spirit of judgment to the one who sits in Judgment

Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

Whereas here it says

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Then speaks of true judgment

Zech 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

Theres various others in respects to our recompense, and that upon earth also

Prov 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

For example in the NT when we are "judged of" Lord (here) says we are chastened that we might not be condemned

2Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

A spirit of judgment to someone that sitteth in judgment seems to fit the same theme as being judged (by the same judgment) you mete and by the same measure "meted back to you" (even by him).