Judge Everybody

[Reader Nilus]

It seems to me that Our Lord was very clear, Judge not and you shall not be judged. What is unclear about that? He also taught first take the Plank out of your own eye before worrying about the speck in your neighbor's eye.
Matthew 7:1-5 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Yitzchak]

It seems to me that Our Lord was very clear, Judge not and you shall not be judged. What is unclear about that? He also taught first take the Plank out of your own eye before worrying about the speck in your neighbor's eye.
Matthew 7:1-5 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Jeff the Finn

It is very clear. What is more difficult is determining what are legitimate exceptions for practical reasons. For example, as a parent do I judge my children's behavior? If my teen refuses to clean their room or do their chores or go to school even, do I simply say, "oh, well, it is not my place to judge" Or what about a person who holds the position of judge in the court system? Does that person sit there wringing their hands trying to figure out how to decide cases without judging?
Making decisions and holding positions of authority seem to force us into some level of judging. At least from the standpoint of the common definition of judging.
Myself, I find some value in the distinction between judging actions and judging a person's soul. However I am not convinced that is the complete answer. There are times when it is clearly wrong to judge even someone's actions. In common speech such a person might be called a busybody or a control freak. And what about the sticky issue of judging someone's thoughts??
I find it easier to just look at this passage as hyperbole to make a strong point. What characterizes us as people should not be a jugemental attitude but rather one which gives people the benefit of the doubt and shows mercy even when it is painfully clear that someone is in the wrong. To be patient and kind and slow to "put someone down"
To my thinking this lines up with the rest of scripture and is more in line with my understanding of midda-keneged-midda which is the jewish theological concept being cited here by Christ to a jewish audience.
I mean, what if my children were such literalists about my statements? Like if I said quit yelling at your sister one evening when they were argueing and years later they had this dysfunctional phobia about yelling.
I find it much easier to just look at thisd as a great principle to follow, which carries a blessing when followed. However , like everything else in life there are common sense times for exceptions.

 

[Reader Nilus]

It is very clear. What is more difficult is determining what are legitimate exceptions for practical reasons. For example, as a parent do I judge my children's behavior? If my teen refuses to clean their room or do their chores or go to school even, do I simply say, "oh, well, it is not my place to judge" Or what about a person who holds the position of judge in the court system? Does that person sit there wringing their hands trying to figure out how to decide cases without judging?
Making decisions and holding positions of authority seem to force us into some level of judging. At least from the standpoint of the common definition of judging.
Myself, I find some value in the distinction between judging actions and judging a person's soul. However I am not convinced that is the complete answer. There are times when it is clearly wrong to judge even someone's actions. In common speech such a person might be called a busybody or a control freak. And what about the sticky issue of judging someone's thoughts??
I find it easier to just look at this passage as hyperbole to make a strong point. What characterizes us as people should not be a jugemental attitude but rather one which gives people the benefit of the doubt and shows mercy even when it is painfully clear that someone is in the wrong. To be patient and kind and slow to "put someone down"
To my thinking this lines up with the rest of scripture and is more in line with my understanding of midda-keneged-midda which is the jewish theological concept being cited here by Christ to a jewish audience.
I mean, what if my children were such literalists about my statements? Like if I said quit yelling at your sister one evening when they were argueing and years later they had this dysfunctional phobia about yelling.
I find it much easier to just look at thisd as a great principle to follow, which carries a blessing when followed. However , like everything else in life there are common sense times for exceptions.

Raising a child is not what is refered to here, it is a holier than thou attitude. Over and over again in the Gospel we are told to be humble, like the publican, to beg God for mercy, as opposed to the nice religious fellow that prayed I thank God that I am not like that sinner over there! If one wants mercy, one is merciful, if one wants forgiveness then one forgives. We are the servant of all, and we are the chief of sinners said St Paul. If we know how guilty we are, we will not condemn anyone period.
Jeff the Finn

 

[BarbB]

Ok, I heard some Christian judging yesterday, first hand, and it sounded to me like malicious gossip.

Hi lunachick -

It was gossip and that may be more harmful than judging. The two women hurt themselves by indulging. The man and woman they gossiped about were hurt, because some of the gossip may have been lies which will now be spread further. And you and your daughter were hurt by having to listen to that vileness.
Sorry.... we aren't all like that!

 

[TheBear]

Ok miscommunication, I was asking a question of you and giving examples, but did not mean to imply you personally had done those things. -sorry if that was the way it came off.

Two I wasn't trying to argue with you on the point, I was stating my opinion and asking for your input on it.

Sorry for the miscommunication. It was late....I was tired.

 

[RaptureTicketHolder]

Judge not, least ye be judged.

Im curious about this.

I lay claim to discernment. Yet, dare I venture to judge, what is the outcome?

Im reminded of a common phrase many of you have seen and even heard:

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

So, take me back to that judging sentiment.

Im covered by the blood of the lamb and I totally accept that and live within it.

So if I judge should I be concerned about being judged? Judge not least ye be judged.

Thanks to Christ's offer, Im judged - through Him. I already know Im a sinner, yet Im covered in Him.

So I make a judgement (as the world seems to define the word) I will be judged, right?

Well, thanks to Christ, and Christ alone, Im golden folks. Now, without Christ, I would not dare WISH to judge.....

But, what am I golden for? In judgement, can help occure?

Ponder on that for awhile!

 

[Yitzchak]

Judge not, least ye be judged.

Im curious about this.

I lay claim to discernment. Yet, dare I venture to judge, what is the outcome?

Im reminded of a common phrase many of you have seen and even heard:

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

So, take me back to that judging sentiment.

Im covered by the blood of the lamb and I totally accept that and live within it.

So if I judge should I be concerned about being judged? Judge not least ye be judged.

Thanks to Christ's offer, Im judged - through Him. I already know Im a sinner, yet Im covered in Him.

So I make a judgement (as the world seems to define the word) I will be judged, right?

Well, thanks to Christ, and Christ alone, Im golden folks. Now, without Christ, I would not dare WISH to judge.....

But, what am I golden for? In judgement, can help occure?

Ponder on that for awhile!

If you are saying what I think you are saying, then I disagree.

 

[Plan 9]

What are you saying, Rapture?

 

[Rae]

Noone jumps to conclusions about you Rae. We know from reading and movies that you are a baby sacrificing, blood drinkin, naked at the altar at midnight witch. right???

Sigh. You see? It isn't naked at the altar...that's where you wear the robes! It's naked in stone circles. That's where you have the orgies!

Don't you people know ANYTHING?

 

[Inspired]

Sorry for the miscommunication. It was late....I was tired.

No big

 

[Reader Nilus]

Judge not, least ye be judged.

Im curious about this.

I lay claim to discernment. Yet, dare I venture to judge, what is the outcome?

Im reminded of a common phrase many of you have seen and even heard:

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

So, take me back to that judging sentiment.

Im covered by the blood of the lamb and I totally accept that and live within it.

So if I judge should I be concerned about being judged? Judge not least ye be judged.

Thanks to Christ's offer, Im judged - through Him. I already know Im a sinner, yet Im covered in Him.

So I make a judgement (as the world seems to define the word) I will be judged, right?

Well, thanks to Christ, and Christ alone, Im golden folks. Now, without Christ, I would not dare WISH to judge.....

But, what am I golden for? In judgement, can help occure?

Ponder on that for awhile!

I lay claim to discernment. Yet, dare I venture to judge, what is the outcome?
Our Lord had a few things to say about that! What is doing the will of Our Lord's Father in Heaven?
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
Our Lord goes on to say in Matthew 7:24-27:
“Everyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, but it did not collapse because it had been founded on rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the flood came, and the winds beat against that house, and it collapsed; it was utterly destroyed!”
To ignore what Our Lord was saying, He says comes at a price of being utterly destroyed! The wise man judges not his neighbor, he forgives them and has mercy on them. Earlier in the Sermon on the Mount Our Lord said this:
Matthew 6:14-15: “For if you forgive others their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, your Father will not forgive you your sins.
Our Lord says to do the will of the Father in heaven is to do the words he hears Him speak. And that word is not to judge your neighbor, for one.
Jeff the Finn

 

[cbk]

---------------------------

To the CHRISTIANS on this thread:

Again, in regards to dealing with Non-Christians who have chosen a different PATH of life than we, it is of no use to JUDGE (or discern with them) on specific issues of morality.... They are in a different current than the one we are in.... If you succeed in changing their ways in regards to worldy matters to better fit the Christian lifestyle, then your work was in vain.... For, if you accept the fact that Christ is the WAY to salvation, no matter how 'CLEAN' in the Christian eyes they appear in regards to the worldly matters regarding sin, they are still traveling the wrong way.

In regards to dealing with Christians we ARE called to judge (rebuke, discern with regarding issues of morality) each other because we should understand and desire that other Christians would do the same for us when it appears we are going astray -- ie, moving from a spiritual walk to a worldly walk... This is our act of love for one another.. Tough at times, but pointing out another Christian's faults in context of scripture is an act of love from one Christian to another --- Or at least it should be an act of love, but sometimes is not.

In regards to dealing with everyone: Love everybody.... To the Christian judge their actions through love so that they will walk more like Christ. To the Non-Christian love them, not by judging their actions in regards to worldly matters, but love them by telling them about Jesus.

Love you all...

---------------------------

To the NON-CHRISTIANS on this thread:

To me, Jesus is the way to salvation and the Holy Bible shows us this plan. Read and learn, if you will.... Or PM me...

I appologize for any past actions or statements that may have offended you.... To be honest, I did not know that many on these threads were non-Christians and some of my remarks to you were short-sighted and geared toward those of the Christian faith...

I have many, many CLOSE friends who are non-Christian.

A Muslim from Iraq for more than 10 years now. An atheist for many years. And a Hindu for over 20 years.

Love you all.....

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

Just a little comment on judging.

What do you think God will condemn more?

Judging harshly and being accusatory, to the point where people feel hatred coming from you (even though you claim to not hate, but actions do speak louder than words)

Or making your point stated, but being friendly with only an occasional mention that you disagree with the persons' lifestyle. Just enough to allow the other to know your feelings. But to still love them, and accept them.

In case you guys who choose the first choice haven't noticed, you ain't jesus. So telling them to go sin no more nicely once or twice, may not do the trick. But making them feel evil certainly won't either.

 

[kdet]

Just a little comment on judging.

What do you think God will condemn more?

Judging harshly and being accusatory, to the point where people feel hatred coming from you (even though you claim to not hate, but actions do speak louder than words)

Or making your point stated, but being friendly with only an occasional mention that you disagree with the persons' lifestyle. Just enough to allow the other to know your feelings. But to still love them, and accept them.

In case you guys who choose the first choice haven't noticed, you ain't jesus. So telling them to go sin no more nicely once or twice, may not do the trick. But making them feel evil certainly won't either.

No one has claimed here to be Jesus.
All sin is the same in God's eyes..so I don't see why He would condemn one more harshly than the other.
You yourself are being judgemental with this post..is that your intention?
To tell others how to behave?

 

[RaptureTicketHolder]

What am I saying?

That Im comfortable being judged, thanks to Christ found within my heart.

Is that disagreeable?

 

[Plan 9]

In case you guys who choose the first choice haven't noticed, you ain't jesus.

Good point. According to Christian belief, Jesus shared God's divine nature. For instance, in the case of the woman taken in adultry, He was the only person present with the right to cast the first stone.
The command "Go and sin no more" should only be given by by a person with the moral authority to do so, an authority I certainly don't possess as a sinner myself. It would be hypocritical for me to assume any of Jesus's perogatives without sharing his divine nature and I do not. Discerning and then trying to deal with my own shortcomings will keep me plenty busy for the rest of my life, with no time left over for anyone else's.

 

[Yitzchak]

No one has claimed here to be Jesus.
All sin is the same in God's eyes..so I don't see why He would condemn one more harshly than the other.
You yourself are being judgemental with this post..is that your intention?
To tell others how to behave?

"With the measure that you mete it shall be measured unto you, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7
I disagree that it is all the same. This verse clearly teaches that there is a different measure according to our actions.

 

[Yitzchak]

What am I saying?

That Im comfortable being judged, thanks to Christ found within my heart.

Is that disagreeable?

If you are saying that you have put your trust in the goodness and mercy of God as expressed in Christ Jesus to cover your sins. Then that is not disagreeable.
If you are saying that because of God's grace you can sin and escape the consequences and that people of the world will be judged more strictly than people in christ, then I completely disagree.

 

[RaptureTicketHolder]

If you are saying that you have put your trust in the goodness and mercy of God as expressed in Christ Jesus to cover your sins. Then that is not disagreeable.

That is exactly my mind set!

Alright, now what are we told about speaking to neighbors about their transgressions?

Take care of your own transgressions first, before helping to remove theirs. Remember, the eye plank or speck in the eye warnings?

Matthew 7
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

So, I take care of my sin, through whom? Christ of course. Then I can truely see (discern) what my neighbor is doing, and I can say HOLD UP wait a minute, lets take care of your sin now.

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Now, some will call my sight as judgment. This is were I say to that onlooker, not judgment but discernment.

What does judgment entale within GODs word?

1. GOD takes notice to what you are doing.

2. GOD says HOLD UP WAIT a minute.

3. GOD tells you to take care of your sin then make changes.

4. BUT.....if you dont what is the next step? WRATH! Wherein judgement lies.

Job 19
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

Ok, so, 1-3 are discernment, however 4 is JUDGMENT!

Now, lets say I do something and someone catches me in it, tries to help me. I stumble, fall, and get up again in Christ but not in that person who tried to help - but this is without Judgement, I encurred no wrath because I took on Christ's forgiveness in my confession.

James 5
15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective

Now, had I stayed within my sin, judgment would eventually follow - but that judgement comes from GOD.

This is why I am so comfortable with being judged - because in my committment to Christ my judgement is in Him.

So do I judge the gay person for the lifestyle choice and sin within? No, as I have not given wrath to qualify for judgement. Now, had I taken that gay person and strung him up in a nuse to die for that sin, I would have passed my own judgement, but not on GODs terms - and I would deserve that same judgement in turn because I overstep GODs wrath.

Matthew 7
2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Deuteronomy 1
17 Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of any man, for judgment belongs to God.

Rather, I have discerned that this lifestyle is not within GODs choice for His chosen, and in this discernment, I speak out (without judgement) after taking care of my own sin and say, HOLD UP wait a minute escape GODs judgement by taking care of that sin.

Psalm 94
14 For the LORD will not reject his people;
he will never forsake his inheritance.
15 Judgment will again be founded on righteousness,
and all the upright in heart will follow it.

16 Who will rise up for me against the wicked?
Who will take a stand for me against evildoers?

I can do this only through the Lord that saves and directs me!

Psalm 119

65 Do good to your servant
according to your word, O LORD .
66 Teach me knowledge and good judgment,
for I believe in your commands.
67 Before I was afflicted I went astray,
but now I obey your word.

Amen and oh me, or oh me and Amen. Regardless, the Lord can bless our hearts in and FOR each other through discernment, while we leave judgment with Him.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

You yourself are being judgemental with this post..is that your intention?
To tell others how to behave?

Why don't you read it again, and pay special attention to the words "what do you think" and "may not"