Judaism On Abortion and Contraceptives

Aimee30

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I had to post this for debate. I was looking up reincarnation beliefs of Judaism for another thread when I happened to stumble across the Judaism 101 site. Anyway, it was interesting to find out that supposedly Jews support contraceptives and certain abortions. Take a look for yourself and tell me what you think:
http://www.jewfaq.org/glossary.htm
Anyway, it's under the topics Abortion and Contraceptives seperately, if you need to know where to look.
 

loriersea

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Aimee30 said:
I had to poet this for debate. I was looking up reincarnation beliefs of Judaism for another thread when I happened to stumble across the Judaism 101 site. Anyway, it was interesting to find out that supposedly Jews support contraceptives and certain abortions. Take a look for yourself and tell me what you think:
http://www.jewfaq.org/glossary.htm
Anyway, it's under the topics Abortion and Contraceptives seperately, if you need to know where to look.

That doesn't surprise me at all. The Hebrew Bible (i.e., the OT) is very clear that the fetus is NOT a life of equal value to the life of a woman, and is not to be counted as a person. Jews are very good at knowing what in the OT is meant metaphorically (the Genesis creation stories, Psalms claiming that humans were formed in the depths of the earth, etc.) and what isn't, far better than many Christians.

The idea that abortion is permissible up to a certain point and not murder in any case also has precedence in Christian theology. It is only recently, in a conservative reaction to social progress for women and minorities, that some Christians have begun to think that abortion is murder or that a fetus is a person. That's not to say that all Christians always thought abortion was right, but the idea that it is the murder of a person is a reactionary (in the sense of being a reaction to the contemporary world), recent trend.
 
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Exist

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Jesus kinda had a problem with what Judaism had become and spent much of His time correcting the faulty beliefs of the Children of Israel.

Faulty beliefs? I always thought that he corrected practices, but if you say beliefs, then I would love to know where you get your information.
 
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M

Mendel

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B'H​


Shalom Friends,
While Judaism 101 is a great site, it covers the the subject of abortion much to lightly, allow me to shed some greater light on how Jewish Thought interpets abortion.

All the great Rabbis, who have written on the subject, are unified in the belief that abortion without great cause, is outright forbidden. The Fetus, while inside the mother, is apart of her, and is considered "potential" human life. What that means, if the fetus anyways threatens the mothers life, she has the option of aborting the fetus, if no other option is allowed. Once the Babie's head has been born, it is considered human life, and therefore, we cannot decide who lives, the Mother or child, if such a circumstance is presented.

Judaism expressly forbids aborting a child, if it is deformed, presumed to be mentally challenged, etc. The only circumstances are, if the fetus threatens the mother's life.

I hope this clears up a few things. May G-d continue to bless us all :wave:


-Mendel




 
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Voegelin

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loriersea said:
It is only recently, in a conservative reaction to social progress for women and minorities, that some Christians have begun to think that abortion is murder or that a fetus is a person. That's not to say that all Christians always thought abortion was right, but the idea that it is the murder of a person is a reactionary (in the sense of being a reaction to the contemporary world), recent trend.

EWTN strongly disagrees:
Abortion was not mentioned at all during the first 80 years of the early Christian Church's existence, because to Jesus and the first Christians, abortion obviously fell under the broad stricture "Thou shalt not kill." However, by the end of the first century, the Church had declared abortion to be a serious sin. The first-century Didache declared that "You shall not kill an unborn child or murder a newborn infant."

From this point until 1930, the entire Christian Church in all of its branches condemned abortion without compromise. Athenogoras of Athens, Tertullian, Minicius Felix, Clement of Alexandria, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and St. Basil were just a few of the early Church fathers who clearly and ringingly condemned feticide. At times, various theologians speculated about the time of ensoulment of the fetus, but the actual lawmaking body of the Church remained firm in its condemnation of abortion. In fact, of the more than 8,000 saints formally recognized by the Catholic Church, not a single one has been 'pro-choice.' . . .

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLENC/ENCYC052.HTM

From "Prodigal Press--Decline of American Journalism":
. . . the New York Times, established in 1851 by Henry Raymond, a Bible-believing Presbyterian. The Times became known for its accurate news coverage and for its exposure in 1871 of both political corruption (the "Tweed Ring") and abortion practices. Tales of the Times' political exposes may be found in journalism history textbooks. The abortion story is ignored, but it had a far greater long-range impact . . .

Abortion was officially illegal but nevertheless rampant in New York City from the 1840s through the 1860s. Times editorials complained that the "perpetration of infant murder. . . is rank and smells to heaven.'' But little was being done about it until the Times sent one of its reporters . . .
http://www.worldmag.com/world/olasky/Prodigal/c1.html
 
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Voegelin

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For those who wonder, as did I, where the idea that " It is only recently, in a conservative reaction to social progress for women and minorities, that some Christians have begun to think that abortion is murder or that a fetus is a person" came from, I've been checking around--it arises from, I believe, from an amicus curiae brief filed by several hundred "professional historians" in the case of Webster v. Reproductive Health Services (1989). Their history is total nonsense and has been debunked repeatedly (one example here). Nothing new with this debasement of history. Eric Foner and Howard Zinn have been engaged in it for decades (a more recent but similiar case is that of Michael A. Bellesiles who was lauded by the New York Times and other liberal media outlets--until his entire work was soundly exposed as lies)

While I've detailed above how the Catholic church has always opposed abortion and how the New York Times was once a Christian newspaper which crusaded against abortion there are many more examples that pro-life sentiment among Christians is not new, not the view of a minority and not a "conservative" reaction to "social progress" A few:

"Through Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, and on to Barth and Bonhoeffer, Christian theologians have condemned abortion in the clearest terms . . ."--Christianity Today

" Those advocates of taking. life prior to birth do not call it killing or murder; they call it abortion. They further never talk about aborting a baby because that would imply something human. Rather they talk about aborting the fetus. Fetus sounds less than human and therefore can be justified."--Jesse Jackson

"Destruction of the embryo in the mother's womb is a violation of the right to live which God has bestowed upon this nascent life. To raise the question whether we are here concerned already with a human being or not is merely to confuse the issue. The simple fact is that God certainly intended to create a human being and that this nascent human being has been deliberately deprived of his life. And that is nothing but murder."--Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1943)
 
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Aimee30

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No, I didn't want really hot arguments. I just thought people would be quite interested to debate this. I am surprised though, that the Talmud quotes were deleted. I suppose it was the statement at the end. I just wondered if the quotes were deemed as fallacy or something.
 
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Aimee30

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Mendel said:
B'H​


Shalom Friends,
While Judaism 101 is a great site, it covers the the subject of abortion much to lightly, allow me to shed some greater light on how Jewish Thought interpets abortion.

All the great Rabbis, who have written on the subject, are unified in the belief that abortion without great cause, is outright forbidden. The Fetus, while inside the mother, is apart of her, and is considered "potential" human life. What that means, if the fetus anyways threatens the mothers life, she has the option of aborting the fetus, if no other option is allowed. Once the Babie's head has been born, it is considered human life, and therefore, we cannot decide who lives, the Mother or child, if such a circumstance is presented.

Judaism expressly forbids aborting a child, if it is deformed, presumed to be mentally challenged, etc. The only circumstances are, if the fetus threatens the mother's life.

I hope this clears up a few things. May G-d continue to bless us all :wave:


-Mendel​


Well, that's actually a reasonable belief. It makes more sense than being strictly for or against, sounds kind of like mine.
Thanks





 
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Mendel

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Aimee30 said:
No, I didn't want really hot arguments. I just thought people would be quite interested to debate this. I am surprised though, that the Talmud quotes were deleted. I suppose it was the statement at the end. I just wondered if the quotes were deemed as fallacy or something.

I reported them, becuase they didn't exist. It was simply slanderous matrieal.
 
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