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Featured LDS Joseph Smith Despised God's Will Being More Powerful Than Man's

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Your evidence lacks anything that is substantial. In fact it has nothing to do with Joseph Smith despising Gods will. Joseph Smith did God's will.
     
  2. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I did not say that Joseph Smith despised God's will. I don't think he knew God's will. He despised the teaching that God's will is more powerful than man's.
     
  4. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Your response is evidence that you changed the topic of the thread.
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    .
     
  6. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    He did not despise the teaching that God's will is more powerful than man's. So far you have not shown a single piece of evidence that shows that he did.
     
  7. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You started the thread.
     
  8. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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  9. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Please fix the above post. You must be falling asleep. I didn't ask the question and you didn't spell the name of your church correctly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I did spell it right. You said you were a member?:
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
     
  11. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    The first vision is an excellent example.
    "Seek first the kingdom of God..." (Matthew 6:33)
    “Every purpose is established by counsel; by wise counsel wage war.” (Proverbs 20:18)
    “Without counsel, plans go awry, but in the multitude of counselors they are established.” (Proverbs 15:22)
    “Listen to counsel and receive instruction, that you may be wise in your latter days.” (Proverbs 19:20)
    “Cease listening to instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge.” (Proverbs 19:27)

    In the Joseph Smith-History, Chapter 1, verse 21 and on, Joseph describes his seeking counsel with a Methodist minister and other "professors of religion". He didn't like their answers nor listen to their counsel, in accordance with Scripture, and instead went his own way. Your very religion is not based on God's will, but the will of Joseph Smith. Therefore, Joseph Smith despised God's will in favor of his own.
     
  12. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I've already answered the question you have the audacity to repeat.
     
  13. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Why did the Father need the the power of His Only Begotten to cast Satan down?

    “Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man,
    which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
    Moses 4:3
     
  14. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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  15. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Jesus that didn't listen to the council of the Pharisees but instead chose to listen to God as did Joseph Smith:
    (Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

    11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
    12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
    13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
    14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
     
  16. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | Revelation 12:7 - 11)

    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
     
  17. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm sure you're right, but what Joseph was working on was more of a commentary. If read in class we would read the KJV and then discuss how justifications leads to sanctification.
     
  18. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think the heart of this is the sovereignty of God and the idea of eternal justice.

    "...even his divine love cannot transcends the degree of justices and the edict that none but the clean can dwell in his kingdom.."

    Does this tie God's hands?

    Mormon theology says justice is an eternal law which God can not, will not break. The law states for every sin there is a punishment afixed, God can not change it. He can not arbitrarily offer mercy no matter how much he wants to for mercy can not rob justice.

    However there is a loophole which allows another to step in an take the punishment or atone for. This is what Jesus did, he broke the bands or hold justice had on us and now he can offer mercy.

    The point is God uses the fixed and eternal laws to bring about his purposes for the salvation his children.

    Within Mormonism there are two points of view. One says God ordained these fixed laws the other says the laws just are and God uses them.
     
  19. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Define justice.

    Lawmakers can show mercy.

    Laws aren't higher than God. It's His call.

    Exodus 33:19 NIV
    And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

    The King doesn't need a loophole. He is the Perfect Sovereign. Your Jesus offers mercy. What law says he can do that without robbing justice?

    Where is the verse that gives mere mortals a different POV? One should be right; that makes the other wrong.

    The blood of Jesus makes us clean.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  20. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then why did Jesus have to suffer and die on the cross, why couldn't God say to those who believe in him your sins are forgiven? Why the act of the atonement?
     
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