LDS Joseph Smith and the Astronomers

garee

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The Book of Mormon is the word of God.

One passage says that the Book of Mormon “shall establish the truth” 1 Nephi 13:40).

The Bible establishes it own truth .It has no equal. No different then the Catholic book of their fathers the CCC.(a law of men) The sacred traditions of men They say when mixed with scripture it is divine just as Mr. Smith the astrologer, star gazer.
 
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He is the way

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Nukes say otherwise
No they don't. The energy produced by a nuclear bomb is equivalent to the same amount of matter and can be turned back into the same amount of matter. Energy and matter are interchangeable.
 
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He is the way

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DNA vs. The Book of Mormon — A Review

The first law of thermodynamics doesn't actually specify that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but instead that the total amount of energy in a closed system cannot be created nor destroyed.

Can We Trust the Prophecies of Joseph Smith? | Cold Case Christianity
Pure Mormonism: Bad Science, Weird Science, And Strange Mormon Prophecy
Resources related to science claims
Tales from the Archives 4: Science, Interpretation, and Bad Feeling in 1965
God can change DNA. Is everyone's DNA similar to Adam and Eve? Native American DNA is not that similar to other DNA.
 
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He is the way

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What would that have to do with the statement of Jesus His flesh profits for nothing?

The living commandment to study rightly dividing the word of God it means just that, rightly divide all things written in the law and the prophets .(sola scriptura)

Not the private interpretations of men

The book of Mormon is a oral tradition of Mr. Smith. He is not the first to claim there is Christ I seen him there or heard his audible voice here, had a dream or a out of the body experience. We are warned before the last new revelation was given . The elect will not be deceived they abide in the warning and method for trying the spirits to see if they are of men or God.

The sealed book of Revelation is the last chapter of God's word ending with a warning not to add or subtract . No man can serve two Good teaching masters as lord. In that way we are to call no man on earth Good teacher .This would include Mr. Smith.

Why go beyond that which is written ? Is there a law missing by which we could know our God more adequately .What's missing in the Bible?
The Book of Mormon is not an addition to the Book of Revelation. Nor is the Book of Revelation an addition to the Book of Deuteronomy

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 4:2)

2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

God did not die, His words will continue forever. This is missing from the Bible:

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 19)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.
 
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He is the way

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One passage says that the Book of Mormon “shall establish the truth” 1 Nephi 13:40).

The Bible establishes it own truth .It has no equal. No different then the Catholic book of their fathers the CCC.(a law of men) The sacred traditions of men They say when mixed with scripture it is divine just as Mr. Smith the astrologer, star gazer.
The more witnesses there are to the truth the more the truth is established.
 
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mmksparbud

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The Book of Mormon is not an addition to the Book of Revelation. Nor is the Book of Revelation an addition to the Book of Deuteronomy

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 4:2)

2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

God did not die, His words will continue forever. This is missing from the Bible:

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 19)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.


To not add to His word, does not mean to not add to a certain book, but to anything that is written. We are not to change what the verses say---any of them.
 
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natitude

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In February 1881 Oliver B. Huntington recorded the following in his journal:

Just curious, why is a journal entry written 37 years after Joseph Smith's martyrdom relevant to an informed discussion about Joseph Smith?
 
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Ironhold

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The sealed book of Revelation is the last chapter of God's word ending with a warning not to add or subtract .

This one's a bit of a red flag.

The Bible, as we know it, was compiled over time, not written as a single, unified, authoritative work.

Not only is there reason to believe that Revelation was not written last, there was also an argument over whether or not it was an authentic work. Some early attempts at compiling a canon actually rejected it because of this.

Revelation's placement at the end is more thematic than anything else, especially since Hebrews and all books after have suspect authorship.

The argument that Revelation seals the Bible from further alteration just doesn't stand, even more so since a similar claim is made in Deuteronomy 4 and so a similar literal interpretation would have sealed the canon at the Pentateuch.
 
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garee

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The more witnesses there are to the truth the more the truth is established.

Hi thanks .

The loving commandment is to rightly divide . Never rightly add or rightly substract it all one word of God as it is written The will of God .No laws missing.

Like many things the father of lies spreads his lies by adding to the word of God especially when it comes to kinds .God creates according to kinds. The same applies with witnesses. What God calls two the father of lies makes it all one in the same . or by subtracting from the whole what God calls one like his written witness .In the end we must be careful how we hear His understanding.

Two witnesses as the one witness.. . the combined Witness of God. It (sola scriptura) is all we need to worship one God .The law and the prophets signified by Moses the letter of the law death . . all have sinned. and Elijah the unseen power of faith or law of faith.


Those two (sola scriptura) .. the greater than the witness of men (ears and eyes) it is used to demonstrate the power that works in us to both will and perform the good pleasure of our father in heaven.

Mathew 11: 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

How can one be more than what they are?

More than a prophet because he was the exclusive prophet set aside that signified the unseen power of the father working in all prophets who declare prophecy the word of God . Again Moses the prophet represented the law "death' (all have sinned) .The law of death and the new unseen law of eternal life together make the perfect law . Apart from each other .No power.

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

In that way to represent the perfect law Moses and Elisa are used many time in various parables as the two witnesses that make up the one witness of God .The law and the prophets (sola scriptura)

As a Mormon you must at all costs serve a hierarchy of men. From what I understand they ran out of numbers 144,000 for the venerable ones.

Those kind of Elders a hierarchy of men come by walking by sight after the things seen seeking that approval .To include that seen the false prophecy (the book of Mormon) The Mormons final authority in matters of faith (the unseen)

It is designed by the Elders to take away from all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) And not rightly divide according to the loving commandment . Just like any government of men. In that way no man can serve two teaching Good Masters to lord it over the flock The commandment is still seek the approval of our Father not seen .
The question I would think is will we hear and believe as one work
not of our own selves? .

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

There is simply no need to go above (sola scriptura) and violate the last warning before the 7 seals were added . Again the believers (elect) were warned before time. We have the perfect (face to face) not in part. We are to try the spirits to see if they are of men earthly inspired. or of God not seen inspired from heaven falling like rain on earth.

There are no laws missing form the book of law the bible by which we could know or heavenly Father more adequately. Not even one!!

Matthew 24:23-25 King James Version (KJV)Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

The challenge for any sect that serves a hierarchy of sinful men. Prove there is a law missing by which mankind could have a more intimate relationship with the Faithful and True Creator ?

1 Corinthians 13: 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
 
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garee

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This one's a bit of a red flag.

The Bible, as we know it, was compiled over time, not written as a single, unified, authoritative work.

Not only is there reason to believe that Revelation was not written last, there was also an argument over whether or not it was an authentic work. Some early attempts at compiling a canon actually rejected it because of this.

Revelation's placement at the end is more thematic than anything else, especially since Hebrews and all books after have suspect authorship.

The argument that Revelation seals the Bible from further alteration just doesn't stand, even more so since a similar claim is made in Deuteronomy 4 and so a similar literal interpretation would have sealed the canon at the Pentateuch.

Revelation is still the last chapter in the book of prophecy .

Is there a law missing by which we could know God not seen more adequately as Our living savior does works in men to both will and perform His good pleasure?

The warning in Deuteronomy 4 is similar in the way that both references working as one protect the faith that protects us as the armor of God. The integrity of a word. While the Revelation reference speaks to the whole or perfect the Deuteronomy speaks to a single word. Change the intended meaning of one word. . change the authors intent or the whole or commandments plural . Its like plagiarism, blasphemy. Either way "one word" or the perfect." Seven times seventy".

Deuteronomy 4;2 King James Version (KJV) Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it(singular) , that ye may keep the commandments(plural all) of the Lord your God which I command you.
 
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Ironhold

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Revelation is still the last chapter in the book of prophecy .

Is there a law missing by which we could know God not seen more adequately as Our living savior does works in men to both will and perform His good pleasure?

The warning in Deuteronomy 4 is similar in the way that both references working as one protect the faith that protects us as the armor of God. While the Revelation reference speaks to the whole or perfect the Deuteronomy speaks to a single word. Change the intended meaning of one word. . change the authors intent or the whole or commandments plural . Its like plagiarism, blasphemy. Either way "one word" or the perfect." Seven times seventy".

Deuteronomy 4;2 King James Version (KJV) Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it(singular) , that ye may keep the commandments(plural all) of the Lord your God which I command you.

None of that is supported by the actual history of the Bible itself and how it was compiled. The canon was never closed by the authors of the books of the Bible, and only declared closed by later religious organizations.
 
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natitude

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The sealed book of Revelation is the last chapter of God's word ending with a warning not to add or subtract .

These warnings were a common literary device in the ancient world. As Robert Boylan points out; they're found in other writings. Here are a couple of examples:

1 Enoch 104:10-11, reads as follows:

[The words] of the truth they alter, and the sinners also write against and alter many (words). And they lie and form great inventions and compose scriptures in their names. And would that they would write all my words truthfully in their names; neither should they subtract nor alter these words, but should write all things truthfully, which I testify to them.


Letter of Aristeas 310-311 also reads thusly:

After the books had been read, the priests and the elders of the translators and the Jewish community and the leaders of the people stood up and said, that since so excellent and sacred and accurate a translation had been made, it was only right that it should remain as it was and no alteration should be made in it. And when the whole company expressed their approval, they bade them pronounce a curse in accordance with their custom upon any one who should make any alteration either by adding anything or changing in any way whatever any of the words which had been written or making any omission. This was a very wise precaution to ensure that the book might be preserved for all the future time unchanged.


It seems a stretch to argue that John is warning against adding to or subtracting from the entire Bible, especially since the Bible as we know it had not yet been compiled.
 
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mmksparbud

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This one's a bit of a red flag.

The Bible, as we know it, was compiled over time, not written as a single, unified, authoritative work.

Not only is there reason to believe that Revelation was not written last, there was also an argument over whether or not it was an authentic work. Some early attempts at compiling a canon actually rejected it because of this.

Revelation's placement at the end is more thematic than anything else, especially since Hebrews and all books after have suspect authorship.

The argument that Revelation seals the Bible from further alteration just doesn't stand, even more so since a similar claim is made in Deuteronomy 4 and so a similar literal interpretation would have sealed the canon at the Pentateuch.


Read post # 386.
 
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mmksparbud

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These warnings were a common literary device in the ancient world. As Robert Boylan points out; they're found in other writings. Here are a couple of examples:

1 Enoch 104:10-11, reads as follows:

[The words] of the truth they alter, and the sinners also write against and alter many (words). And they lie and form great inventions and compose scriptures in their names. And would that they would write all my words truthfully in their names; neither should they subtract nor alter these words, but should write all things truthfully, which I testify to them.


Letter of Aristeas 310-311 also reads thusly:

After the books had been read, the priests and the elders of the translators and the Jewish community and the leaders of the people stood up and said, that since so excellent and sacred and accurate a translation had been made, it was only right that it should remain as it was and no alteration should be made in it. And when the whole company expressed their approval, they bade them pronounce a curse in accordance with their custom upon any one who should make any alteration either by adding anything or changing in any way whatever any of the words which had been written or making any omission. This was a very wise precaution to ensure that the book might be preserved for all the future time unchanged.


It seems a stretch to argue that John is warning against adding to or subtracting from the entire Bible, especially since the Bible as we know it had not yet been compiled.

Again---read [post #386
 
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mmksparbud

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None of that is supported by the actual history of the Bible itself and how it was compiled. The canon was never closed by the authors of the books of the Bible, and only declared closed by later religious organizations.


It is certainly closed to anyone who claims they are from God, but have been proven not to be. The writings of false prophets are not scripture.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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We've actually had this discussion before.

During Joseph's lifetime, newspapers all over the United States fell for a major hoax. Someone falsely claiming to be a then-prominent astronomer claimed to have found life on the Moon, and that the inhabitants were humanoids with a description similar to what Joseph is alleged to have said.

Even if Joseph did indeed allegedly make this statement, it could easily mean nothing more than his believing what he read in a newspaper that had fallen for the hoax.

So unless you're willing to try and argue that Joseph should have had angels fact-checking his morning paper, then it's a moot discussion as we'd need Joseph himself around to explain matters.

Being a prophet does not have discernment?

Please produce the newspaper articles and the dates of them along with the dates of JS and BY claims about people living on the Moon or on the Sun, etc.,
 
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