public hermit

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I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Peterson, but this is a touching and interesting (3 min.) clip, where Peterson talks about Jesus Christ and the unique way that, as he puts it, the "narrative world and objective world" meet. This, he says, is "union synchronicity," which I take to mean the objective occurrence of events are meaningful in such a way that transcend natural causal factors (or something like that, lol).

The idea, I think, is that although there are similar myths regarding dying and rising deities, Jesus is the only one with a historical backdrop. In other words, myth (in the sense of communicating transcendant truth) and the objective order come together. And, I would add, come together to reveal the transcendent divine in time and space.

Synchronicity - Wikipedia

An example Peterson gives is morality. We treat moral claims as real, but they are not objective (think the is/ought distinction). He gives this as an example of how the narrative world and objective world touch. He goes on to say Christ is intended to be the principal instance of these two worlds coming together.

Any thoughts on what he's saying are welcomed, but at least watch the clip. Peterson gets emotional as he's talking about this. It's obvious to me cares deeply about what he's saying and It's a side we might not see as often.

I'm also curious if his take on this sounds a bit post-modern to anyone, which would be ironic, lol.

 
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Tigger45

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I really don’t know anything about Jordan Peterson but a quick wiki search listed him as a theist. That being true maybe he got a touch of ‘the’ divine and his understanding has been enlightened.
 
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Hanging by a Thread

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I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Peterson, but this is a touching and interesting (3 min.) clip, where Peterson talks about Jesus Christ and the unique way that, as he puts it, the "narrative world and objective world" meet. This, he says, is "union synchronicity," which I take to mean the objective occurrence of events are meaningful in such a way that transcend natural causal factors (or something like that, lol).

The idea, I think, is that although there are similar myths regarding dying and rising deities, Jesus is the only one with a historical backdrop. In other words, myth (in the sense of communicating transcendant truth) and the objective order come together. And, I would add, come together to reveal the transcendent divine in time and space.

Synchronicity - Wikipedia

An example Peterson gives is morality. We treat moral claims as real, but they are not objective (think the is/ought distinction). He gives this as an example of how the narrative world and objective world touch. He goes on to say Christ is intended to be the principal instance of these two worlds coming together.

Any thoughts on what he's saying are welcomed, but at least watch the clip. Peterson gets emotional as he's talking about this. It's obvious to me cares deeply about what he's saying and It's a side we might not see as often.

I'm also curious if his take on this sounds a bit post-modern to anyone, which would be ironic, lol.

Lol, i was hesitant to click the video ( but I did). This guy must have the best SEO team in the world 'cuz I wathced a couple of his videos about six months ago and I'm still getting a birage of Peterson videos in the "suggested" section of my Youtube screen.
He says Jesus has a historical backdrop but says his existence is debatable. I thought that even atheist historians acknowledge that Jesus existed, they just don't believe the myth. Am I wrong about this?
He seems to have seen something supernatural in his life. More than once. I'd love to have seen what he's talking about.
 
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public hermit

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I thought that even atheist historians acknowledge that Jesus existed, they just don't believe the myth. Am I wrong about this

I think you're correct, most scholars (believers and not) agree that Jesus was an actual person in history. I think he's just being generous in saying it's debatable. Yeah, it is something one might question, but there's not much reason to.
 
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renniks

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I have been watching a few of his videos lately. Usually I pretty much agree with him on everything. A lot of what he says strikes me as simply common sense, although apparently he has a lot of opponents on the left.
It seems like he perhaps has recently had a conversion experience, based on this video. It's like he wants to be even handed and objective about the subject but it touches his emotional side which takes him by surprise.
 
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public hermit

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In the subtitles it comes up as "union synchronicity" but that is not what he says, what he says is "jungian synchronicity" - just to clarify.

Good call. In the wiki link on synchronicity, it states the notion began with Jung. It didn't occur to me he might have said "Jungian."
 
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dms1972

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Good call. In the wiki link on synchronicity, it states the notion began with Jung. It didn't occur to me he might have said "Jungian."


I have watched some of his videos and interviews - i find if anything he offers a helpful counterpoint at times to my own thinking or to many of the ideas that are abroad today.

I wasn't sure I understood him about narative morality - is he saying morality is something we make up?

He talks about Christ in some of his other videos - in one he says he's talking psychologically rather theologically. There is one in which he talks about a dream he had or an insight in a dream about kings rising from the dead and fighting each other and only if they all bowed to Christ would they stop fighting. I cannot tell whether Jordan is speaking in Christian terms or Jungian (he is a Jungian psychologist), and Jung used christian terminology also eg : the "Christ Archetype" however Jung seems to understand it as only psychologically real.
 
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public hermit

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I wasn't sure I understood him about narative morality - is he saying morality is something we make up?

I don't think he's saying morality is something we make up. He says it's real (we naturally treat it as real), but it's not objective. I take "objective" to mean empirical and quantifiable, perhaps?

My mind goes to the Humean is/ought distinction, i.e. that we can't derive an "ought" statement from an "is" statement. But, I don't know his work, so I'm reading into what he's saying, for better or worse.
 
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dms1972

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I don't think he's saying morality is something we make up. He says it's real (we naturally treat it as real), but it's not objective. I take "objective" to mean empirical and quantifiable, perhaps?

My mind goes to the Humean is/ought distinction, i.e. that we can't derive an "ought" statement from an "is" statement. But, I don't know his work, so I'm reading into what he's saying, for better or worse.

I'd have to read up on the Is / Ought problem again to familiarise myself with what it was about.

Petersen references CS Lewis as having been onto the same thing as he is talking about - he's refering to Lewis's Myth became Fact essay. Its a while from I read it - IIRC Lewis was saying how there have been numerous mythical stories of dying Gods - he mentions Balder (a Norse myth) and some others. In Surprised by Joy Lewis says how some lines from a poem about Balder had a profound effect on him when he was young:

I heard a voice that cried ,
Balder the beautiful,
is dead, is dead.

As a result I think he had one of his experiences of what he termed sehnsucht - a sort of nostalgia involving "a sense of displacement or alienation from what is desired" .

Later in adulthood it was Tolkien who in an important conversation one evening - pointed out to Lewis that myths could be a powerful vehicle for revealing the worlds deepest truths.

The Power of Conversation: A Lesson from CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien

https://www.clarendonhousebooks.com/single-post/2016-1-27-lies-breathed-through-silver

Lewis later wrote: "Those who do not know that this great myth became Fact when the Virgin conceived are, indeed, to be pitied. But Christians also need to be reminded...that what became Fact was a Myth, that it carries with it into the world of Fact all the properties of a myth. God is more than a god, not less; Christ is more than a Balder, not less. We must not be ashamed of the mythological radiance resting on our theology."

Some theologians when it comes to the Bible prefer the term saga to that of myth (eg. Karl Barth, Gerhard von Rad).
 
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stevevw

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I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Peterson, but this is a touching and interesting (3 min.) clip, where Peterson talks about Jesus Christ and the unique way that, as he puts it, the "narrative world and objective world" meet. This, he says, is "union synchronicity," which I take to mean the objective occurrence of events are meaningful in such a way that transcend natural causal factors (or something like that, lol).

The idea, I think, is that although there are similar myths regarding dying and rising deities, Jesus is the only one with a historical backdrop. In other words, myth (in the sense of communicating transcendant truth) and the objective order come together. And, I would add, come together to reveal the transcendent divine in time and space.

Synchronicity - Wikipedia

An example Peterson gives is morality. We treat moral claims as real, but they are not objective (think the is/ought distinction). He gives this as an example of how the narrative world and objective world touch. He goes on to say Christ is intended to be the principal instance of these two worlds coming together.

Any thoughts on what he's saying are welcomed, but at least watch the clip. Peterson gets emotional as he's talking about this. It's obvious to me cares deeply about what he's saying and It's a side we might not see as often.

I'm also curious if his take on this sounds a bit post-modern to anyone, which would be ironic, lol.

I am a fan of Peterson. I had been watching his videos for some time before I came across one where is spoke about Christ and was quite taken back. I liked his videos because they spoke in practcial ways about how we should live and in hindsight they were more or less based on Christs teachings. He is able to take Christs teaching and break them down to show a deeper level of understanding. I liked his take on the Sermon on the Mount.

But it could seem like he goes off on another tangent and sometimes he does. But I appreciated that because when I listened to his talks a couple of times I began to understand the great insight he had into the Bible and Christs teachings. This for me explained the human/God aspect of Christ. He explains the weakness of the flesh which makes Christs teachings more relevant in a practical way. I think that is why Peterson is facinated by Christ as a psychologist and seeing human nature at its worst and trying to find ways to overcome this.

In other videos he talks about positive feedback loops and how one action can spur another like 'tit for tat' which has also vrought about conflicts and war. How todays society especially in politics people aim for winning the 'tit for tat' battle rather than aim for peace. How Christs teaching to 'turn the other cheek' is so important in breaking this feedback loop. So he promotes making peace, finding common ground and looking at yourself first to change the situation.

He also goes into the history of Christianity and how important Christian values are in todays society. How we use to have these values but have lost them. Yet I don't think he is a committed Christian. I think he just analyses things from a psychological and sociological perspective but also how life transcends the physical and mental needs which I find refreshing as its not exactly preaching.

I think his emotion when describing what Christ represented shows that this is cutting through to him in his heart and not just his head. Something he finds profound as it has life changing power which is something he would be attuned to as a clinical psychologist. Its powerful and very moving to see it happen to someone like Peterson.

 
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JimR-OCDS

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I like Jordan Peterson and his interview with Bishop Barron was very interesting.

In all, Peterson says he's not a Christian, but believes there is a higher purpose.

From what I have heard, I believe Jordon Peterson is in search of Christ. I pray
that Christ reveals Himself to Jordon, however that may happen.
 
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