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Jordan Bajis

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by authiodionitist, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. authiodionitist

    authiodionitist Senior Member

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. authiodionitist

    authiodionitist Senior Member

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  3. Jacob4707

    Jacob4707 Guest

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    I think he was at one time (though I'm only assuming this based on where he studied and what he has written in COMMON GROUND), but he certainly is not at present.
     
  4. authiodionitist

    authiodionitist Senior Member

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    This is what my friend told me last night. An apostate? It seems odd that there's no documentation of his conversion or apostacy from Orthodoxy anywhere online as far as I've seen.
     
  5. Ioan cel Nou

    Ioan cel Nou Well-Known Member

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    The strangest thing is that apart from that section you posted the link to, what is written on that site sounds Orthodox. It's almost like they really do think they are part of the Orthodox Church whilst simultaneously not being - not sure about the mental gymnastics required to hold to a position like that. Having seen this it wouldn't surprise me if he was never really Orthodox in the first place but rather something like those American evangelicals that converted en masse years ago, but without the actual conversion - Protestants who think they can be Orthodox simply by agreeing ith most of our theology.

    James
     
  6. Orthosdoxa

    Orthosdoxa Happy wife and mommy

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    I thought he was a cradle who apostacized?

    His book is good for beginners - but he himself is deeply deceived.
     
  7. Xpycoctomos

    Xpycoctomos Well-Known Member

    +603
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    Correction... his book is GREAT for beginners!

    But, yeah, from what I know it is true.

    I have an acquaintance who goes to Greek Church here. Jordan Bajis used to go the Church here (when he was attending/teaching at the university it town). I don't know how long that was but he lead a group of Orthodox who participated in "Ecumenical" sessions (??) where they took on the gifts of the spirit (tongues, etc...). This actually still goes on at that and apparently many Greek Orthodox Churches in the States with little cooperation or criticism from the clergy. Anyway, my acquaintence's parents know him quite well to this day and he out West somewhere (it's on that site... I actually posted it here several months ago. No one really commented lol). He was a cradle and he did apostacize as Orthosdoxa et al here have said. It's really sad.

    And, I got the same feeling from the site as Ioan did. It seems to me that they still see themselves as fully Orthodox... regardless of what the Orthodox Church says about it. I have a feeling it's a very charasmatic/"ecumenical" parish.

    I don't think there is much (any?) documentation about his leaving. First of all, people like this never formally announce leaving the Church. They just do it, tricking themselves into believing that as long as they believe strongly enough that they are Orthdoox... then they are Orthodox. My FEELING is that perhaps GOArch has also failed to make any official pronouncement on this as well. This is not only based on a lot of things I have seem personally, but also on the fact that my best friend almost married a woman who is (or was, really) a god-daughter of Bajis... and he was going to be the crown-bearer at the wedding. Now, HOPEFULLY, this was ONLY an idea of the mother and the bride-to-be and that this had not yet been approved by the priest. The priest is a very right on Orthodox guy with a steady head on his shoulders... but a lot of which battles you can fight depend on the bishop above you. Hopefully I am wrong and Bajiz has been officially denounced by the Greek Orthodox Church in America.

    Now, they (I think the Church has other apostates as well) made their own bed and God will deal with them as He sees fit (as He will also deal with me and my hubris and personal demons), but I very worried for non-Orthodox who come to this parish convinced that they are Orthodox.

    Remember that one lady who came in here about a year ago (??) with what she thought was an innocent question, but that included as a sidefact that her Bishop was married (and that wasn't even the issue she was intending to discuss!) and then we were all like "huh, wait, back up! Your "bishop"?) and the more research we did, the more we realized how bunk her Church was. But, how do you convince someone of that who, until that day, that parish and what it taught her was ALL she ever knew Orthodoxy to be? That's tough. I mean, she must have felt like she was an an ecclesiastical edition of the X-Files.

    So, I worry about these people going to Bajis' Church a lot. This is why sometimes I am divided on whether I should suggest this book. It's sooooooo excellent, but it gives his name (now) underdeserved legitimacy within Orthodoxy. For example, I gave this book to a good protestant (charasmatic) friend a few years back (before I knew about Bajis' chasamatic past and apostate present). he loved it. It totally changed his way of looking at things. For the first time, so much of Orthodoxy seemed logical. Praying to saints (while still uncomfotable to him) seemed like a perfectly Christian act, etc... However, he still to this day only looks to the Orthodox Church to learn wisdom from it.. and apply it on his own (or with the help and support of other friends). This to us is obviously dangerous, but he just doesn't see it this way. And I am afraid he will find some "Orthodox" Parish like Bajis' one day and think he's Orthodox, especially if he finds out about this Church here, because in his mind, Bajis is a legitimate Orthodox Figure like Frank Schaffer.

    Anyway, hope that all made sense. This really saddens me.

    Xpy
     
  8. paleodoxy

    paleodoxy Catechumen

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    If true, it really is a shame. I would recommend Common Ground to anyone.
     
  9. fuerein

    fuerein Guest

    +0
    I agree despite his fall from the Orthodox faith his book is still, nonetheless, a powerful explanation of Orthodox thought. I enjoyed reading my copy.
     
  10. Matrona

    Matrona Lady Godiva Freedom Rider

    +199
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    Well, what is it that they are supposed to say about him?
     
  11. authiodionitist

    authiodionitist Senior Member

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    That's he's excommunicated.
     
  12. Matrona

    Matrona Lady Godiva Freedom Rider

    +199
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    But how do they announce something like that? I mean, I've seen plenty of Orthodox who've apostasized and not exactly been quiet about it, and I've never seen the Orthodox jurisdiction of which they were a part make a public statement on the matter without something criminal being involved.
     
  13. Xpycoctomos

    Xpycoctomos Well-Known Member

    +603
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    As authio said.

    It's important for Churches to recognize the status of someone officially for their spiritual welfare and not give someone the delusion that they are somehow still Orthodox. Perhaps they did this privately (???). Very possible. But when someone is still claiming to be Orthodox to the public and ESPECIALLY when they were a person with some kind of legitimacy BEFORE leaving, this should be made public for the good of the flock.

    Unfortunately there are quite a few examples of Orthodox Jurisdictions not responding adequately to these kinds of problems and leaving things ambiguous among the flock or even to that person! This may often be a simple oversight, failure of the priest to bring it to the bishop in fear of retaliation from other members in the Church. The bishop purposely not saying anything to avoid controversy. I don't know. But whatever the reason (innocent or not), it creates problems down the road.

    Another BIG problem is that jurisdictions don't respect each other's excommunications so often. It's a tragedy for that person's soul! Excommunication isn't "I don't like you, don't come back", it's a wake up call. But how are they supposed to wake up when the next jurisdiction down the road takes them in with open arms even when they know of the other excommunication. This problem is, unfortunately NOT uncommon at all in my area and a lot of it stems from bishops purposely ignoring them because they don't respect this or that jurisdiction. IT's dirty, it's silly and most of all dangerous. It makes the unity of the Church a joke. In the end, it is tragic.

    Anyway, Clear mandates need to be given by the Churhc in all things nad jurisdictions need to respect each other's decisions of excommunications as binding on the Orthodox Church universal.

    Xpy
     
  14. Jacob4707

    Jacob4707 Guest

    +0
    I would think that Light & Life Publishing should revise the front page or the back cover of the book to indicate clearly that Bajis is not an Eastern Orthodox Christian. That does not make his book of less value, but it does clarify for the reader that the author is not Orthodox. As it currently stands, the book doesn't say one way or the other, but its publication and promotion by Light & Life would make one think that he is Orthodox.
     
  15. Xpycoctomos

    Xpycoctomos Well-Known Member

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    And it is true. it may have been done silently. But the fact that he is still in involved with some GOArch activities and parish functions as well as even be considered by any Orthodox to be a crown-bearer tells me that perhaps the message needs to be made more public like a message sent to all bishops and then to all priests. From there the priest can just be aware of this and not work in any functions with him. Many of them just may not know and on things like excommunication, most priests I have known will not act on those unless they know somethign from THEIR bishop.

    But, I'm not suggesting some page on the GOArch/Antiochian/OCA website dedicated to recent excommunications.
     
  16. Xpycoctomos

    Xpycoctomos Well-Known Member

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    that's a very good idea.
     
  17. authiodionitist

    authiodionitist Senior Member

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    Well, let's somebody type up a letter to the bishop, print it, give it a signature, and send it off with Cree's recommendation.
     
  18. authiodionitist

    authiodionitist Senior Member

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    And ditto for Jacob's.
     
  19. Xpycoctomos

    Xpycoctomos Well-Known Member

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    Such a good idea that I just contacted them asking them to look into this and seriously consider putting such a disclaimer. I made it very clear that this was not in order to be some witch hunt in order to "shame" the author back to the Church, but simply to let those unsusp[ecting know that he is not part of any Canonical Orthodox Jurisdiction.

    Thanks for the idea!

    Xpy
     
  20. Xpycoctomos

    Xpycoctomos Well-Known Member

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    If it has MY signature on it... the Bishop will definitely be all ears! :) lol
     
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