• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Jonah

Discussion in 'LCMS / WELS / ELS / LCC' started by Hope1960, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    How does the LCMS explain the story of Jonah? I mean I’ve read enough to be convinced that SOME fish could swallow a man whole but how does the LCMS explain how Jonah could breathe in the belly of a big fish?
    Some fish gulp air and dive back down into the water but then the air would go into the fishes’ lungs not belly.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    Anyone?
     
  3. Ann77

    Ann77 Member

    104
    +45
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    If he was kept alive, I assume God kept Jonah alive through His hand. Some say he died for three days and was later resurrected from the dead like Christ (Jonah 2:10; Mt 12:40).
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  4. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    Anyone else?
     
  5. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

    931
    +873
    Japan
    Lutheran
    Married
    The orthodox Lutheran position - and that includes the LCMS - is that the story of Jonah is not figurative or symbolic, but literal. It's a miracle. There are many arguments we can make for this, but we can boil them down to two reasons: (1) There is nothing in the text of Jonah to suggest it's symbolic. And (2) our Lord Jesus Christ treats the story as literal and thus re-affirming its literacy.

    Now, with this in mind, namely, that Jonah was in the belly of a fish for three days is a historical fact, we need to recognise that this was not a natural event, but a supernatural one - it was a miracle. And just as with any other miracles in Scriptures, we cannot and should not attempt to explain how it occurred.

    Very simply: Does Scripture treat it as a historical fact? Yes. Can God in His power do it? Yes. Then there's no reason to doubt or question it.

    In the case of Jonah, God may, for example, have provided air, or He may have changed the circumstances and laws of nature for Jonah so that he does not need air, or God may have used natural conditions unknown to us to support Jonah. Any of these ways, along with a number of others, are possible to God. But the Bible does not tell us how, because how a miracle occurs is not important. It's WHY it occurs that matters. And all miracles recorded for us in Scripture serve to point us to the person and works of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  6. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married

    Something I need to remember.
     
  7. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    I’ve been reading about Jonah and how this miracle might have occurred. One article says there is no air in whale’s stomachs while another article says that some air is present. Besides a miracle, is there any air in the belly of a whale?
     
  8. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

    +3,508
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    I mean, maybe sometimes. It certainly would not be pleasant "air" however. More likely gases from partially digested foods than normal "air".

    I don't think it really matters though...if one is going to take the position that it is a miracle, it would not matter if he was covered in water with no air for 3 days - it's a miracle. The moral of the story and imagery it foreshadows are probably more important than trying to solve how or if it happened. No science or history would matter at that point because the lesson is learned, then no one or any doubts can shake your conviction.
     
  9. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    The article said “There is always some air in the whale’s stomach and as long as the animal it has swallowed is still alive,digestive activity will not begin.” Anyone know if this is true?
     
  10. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,953
    Lutheran
    Married
    The Bible tells us everything that God wants us to know, and it contains every thing that we need to know. How did a Virgin Conceive? How was a rotting Lazareth raised from the dead? How was the Temple Curtain rent? These are not explained, but the Bible tells us that they "are". If we have faith, that is sufficient; if it is not sufficient, then we don't have faith. It is that easy.
     
  11. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

    +3,508
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    I am not a marine biologist, though I have worked in animal care at a zoo in the past. I seriously doubt this to be true. Whales eat live fish, krill, etc. all the time, if they waited for them to die it would lengthen digestion time considerably. According to this article in the Smithsonian, sperm whales do not have "air" in their stomachs, just gases like methane. I would garner to assume this is the case in all toothed whales.

    Other possible Jonah animals proposed have been whale sharks, but their esophagus is too small to swallow a human - it's only a few inches across. The same goes for baleen whales like blue whales and grey whales.

    In the end the LCMS view is that we have to trust that it was a miracle, God provided the means to survive.
     
  12. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,953
    Lutheran
    Married
    Not a whale, but a big fish according to scripture; some speculate a Grouper:
     
  13. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    Man, that fish is gross.
     
  14. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
  15. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
  16. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
  17. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,953
    Lutheran
    Married
    Very tasty too. They look like a giant small-mouth bass.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

    +3,508
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    It could be, that is why I mentioned the whale shark, which are fish (the largest fish) and would be large enough if not for the esophagus issue.
    Exactly the wording just is not clear enough to say what type of creature, if it even was a common animal. I mean, we are talking about a miracle, it does not even have to be a "real" animal that we are familiar with.
    They are a lot of fun to catch. Living in Tampa I go out a few times a year to catch grouper and snapper. The grouper are tough to reel in, but great to eat. The larger ones tend to have worms, so not so great in that aspect. Red grouper are the most common around here.
     
  19. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    440
    +112
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    Or like the article said, it could’ve even been an extinct dinosaur-type creature.
     
  20. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

    +3,508
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    Absolutely, maybe a huge shark like a megalodon. We still have the oxygen issue with that though. In the end I think that we have to accept that it is a miracle, whatever animal might have been the vehicle here.
     
Loading...