John Hagee and Anti-Semitism

[Bernard Pyron]

John Hagee and Anti-Semitism

Matthew 24: 9-11, Luke 21: 16, Luke 12: 11, and John 16: 2 are all end time
prophecies about a coming persecution of Christians.

Luke 21: 16 says ""And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." "Some" has been added to the King James English because its not in the Greek Textus Receptus."

There is an indication in some of these texts that churches will be involved in the persecuition of Christians. Luke 12: 11: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:"

Synagogues is Strong's number 4864, meaning "an assemblage of persons, a Jewish synagogue, by analogy, a Christian church, assembly,
congregation, synagogue." Sunagoge in the Greek, or synagogue,
can mean a Christian church. Magistrates probably refers to judges, to whom Christians are brought on some kind of charge, such as blasphemy under the Noahide laws or hate speech laws.

John 16: 2 says "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

This is a fearful verse, saying that churches will throw Christinas out, and there is a possible implication here that churches will be involved in the death of Christians. Again, synagogues can be Christian churches.

No one knows for sure now how it will come about that churches will be involved in the persecution of Christians. Below is one possible scenario about how this might come about.

On a blog
which is pro-John Hagee and pro-Christians United For Israel (CUFI)
the writer explains that John Hagee does not use the term in the Book
of Revelation, the Great harlot, to describe the Catholic Church. The
writer of this blog says "It is actually Revelation that supplies us
with the term "Great harlot." Pastor Hagee merely explains that this
will be an "apostate church" made up of all those who abandon the
teachings of Christ and embrace false doctrines such as
anti-Semitism."

Remember that recently John Hagee in an interview on Jews On First at
says that Christians who say that we are spiritual Israel are guilty
of an anti-semitic theology. This was reported in an article by
Harmony Grant called John Hagee False Prophet.

To Hagee and his many dispensationalist followers, Christians who say
we are Israel are part of the "apostate church," the Great harlot of
Revelation 17: 1. Now Congress has passed "The Global Anti-Semitism
Awareness/Review Act" to create a State Department office to monitor
international anti-Semitism. The passing of this act is reported on
World Net Daily at

The State Department has a 94 page document defining anti-semitism at

This report says that "The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia (EUMC)"in
close collaboration with the Organization
for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office of Democratic
Institutions and Human Rights, international experts on anti-
Semitism, and civil society organizations" began discussing a common
approach to data collection on anti-Semitism. This effort led to the drafting
of a Working Definition of Anti-Semitism. The EUMC's working
definition provides a useful framework for identifying and
understanding the problem and is adopted for the purposes of this
report: "Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be
expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical
and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward
Jewish or non-Jewish individuals
and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and
religious facilities."
Because the working definition is broad, the EUMC provides
explanatory text that discusses the kinds of acts that could be
considered anti-Semitic."

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical
allegations about Jews as such
• or the power of Jews as a collective"such as, especially but not
exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews
controlling the media, economy, government or other societal
institutions."

Criticism of the dispensationalist promotion of a Jewish kingdom to
appear perhaps in the end times could be anti-semitism. Criticism of
Jewish Zionism would be anti-semitism.

The official definition of anti-semitism may not in an explicit way go
so far as to include a Christian saying that Christians, not Jews, are
God's chosen people and that Christians are spiritual Israel. But
Christians who say they are Israel and the chosen people might be
defined as being anti-semitic under a more general and vague
definition of anti-semitism. And Christians who say they are Israel
and the chosen people of God could also be persecuted under terrorist
laws by defining them as terrorists, or under the Noahide laws, by
saying they are guilty of blasphemy for following Jesus Christ.

But the passing of The Global Anti-Semitism Awareness/Review Act by
the U.S. Congress and the The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia's Working Definition of Anti-Semitism are two small steps
closer to the setting up a process by which Christians who say we are
spiritual Israel can be charged with a crime.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

John Hagee and Anti-Semitism

Matthew 24: 9-11, Luke 21: 16, Luke 12: 11, and John 16: 2 are all end time
prophecies about a coming persecution of Christians.

Luke 21: 16 says ""And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." "Some" has been added to the King James English because its not in the Greek Textus Receptus."

There is an indication in some of these texts that churches will be involved in the persecuition of Christians. Luke 12: 11: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:"

Synagogues is Strong's number 4864, meaning "an assemblage of persons, a Jewish synagogue, by analogy, a Christian church, assembly,
congregation, synagogue." Sunagoge in the Greek, or synagogue,
can mean a Christian church. Magistrates probably refers to judges, to whom Christians are brought on some kind of charge, such as blasphemy under the Noahide laws or hate speech laws.

John 16: 2 says "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

This is a fearful verse, saying that churches will throw Christinas out, and there is a possible implication here that churches will be involved in the death of Christians. Again, synagogues can be Christian churches.

No one knows for sure now how it will come about that churches will be involved in the persecution of Christians. Below is one possible scenario about how this might come about.

On a blog
which is pro-John Hagee and pro-Christians United For Israel (CUFI)
the writer explains that John Hagee does not use the term in the Book
of Revelation, the Great harlot, to describe the Catholic Church. The
writer of this blog says "It is actually Revelation that supplies us
with the term "Great harlot." Pastor Hagee merely explains that this
will be an "apostate church" made up of all those who abandon the
teachings of Christ and embrace false doctrines such as
anti-Semitism."

Remember that recently John Hagee in an interview on Jews On First at
says that Christians who say that we are spiritual Israel are guilty
of an anti-semitic theology. This was reported in an article by
Harmony Grant called John Hagee False Prophet.

To Hagee and his many dispensationalist followers, Christians who say
we are Israel are part of the "apostate church," the Great harlot of
Revelation 17: 1. Now Congress has passed "The Global Anti-Semitism
Awareness/Review Act" to create a State Department office to monitor
international anti-Semitism. The passing of this act is reported on
World Net Daily at

The State Department has a 94 page document defining anti-semitism at

This report says that "The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia (EUMC)"in
close collaboration with the Organization
for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office of Democratic
Institutions and Human Rights, international experts on anti-
Semitism, and civil society organizations" began discussing a common
approach to data collection on anti-Semitism. This effort led to the drafting
of a Working Definition of Anti-Semitism. The EUMC's working
definition provides a useful framework for identifying and
understanding the problem and is adopted for the purposes of this
report: "Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be
expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical
and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward
Jewish or non-Jewish individuals
and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and
religious facilities."
Because the working definition is broad, the EUMC provides
explanatory text that discusses the kinds of acts that could be
considered anti-Semitic."

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical
allegations about Jews as such
• or the power of Jews as a collective"such as, especially but not
exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews
controlling the media, economy, government or other societal
institutions."

Criticism of the dispensationalist promotion of a Jewish kingdom to
appear perhaps in the end times could be anti-semitism. Criticism of
Jewish Zionism would be anti-semitism.

The official definition of anti-semitism may not in an explicit way go
so far as to include a Christian saying that Christians, not Jews, are
God's chosen people and that Christians are spiritual Israel. But
Christians who say they are Israel and the chosen people might be
defined as being anti-semitic under a more general and vague
definition of anti-semitism. And Christians who say they are Israel
and the chosen people of God could also be persecuted under terrorist
laws by defining them as terrorists, or under the Noahide laws, by
saying they are guilty of blasphemy for following Jesus Christ.

But the passing of The Global Anti-Semitism Awareness/Review Act by
the U.S. Congress and the The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia's Working Definition of Anti-Semitism are two small steps
closer to the setting up a process by which Christians who say we are
spiritual Israel can be charged with a crime.

John Hagee eh ? No comment. I do believe that those who belong to Christ will undergo persecution right before Christ returns, and it has nothing to do with what Hagee thinks, but this bible verse that I read a long time ago..John 16:1-2 ~ These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Persecution has been going on in the church for ages in foreign countries, but nothing like we will see.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

John Hagee eh ? No comment. I do believe that those who belong to Christ will undergo persecution right before Christ returns, and it has nothing to do with what Hagee thinks, but this bible verse that I read a long time ago..John 16:1-2 ~ These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Persecution has been going on in the church for ages in foreign countries, but nothing like we will see.

But, but I don't worship in a Synagogue, only Messianics and Orthodox Jews do

Reve 3:9 Behold! I-am-giving out of the synagogue/sun-agwghV <4864> of the satan, to-the ones saying them-selves Judeans to-be and not they-are, but are false........

Reve 20:8 and he shall be coming out to deceive the nations, the in the Four Corners of the Land, the Gog/gwg <1136> and Magog/magwg <3098>, to be together-assembling/leading/sun-agagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle, of which the Number of them as the Sand of the Sea.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]

 

[gwynedd1]

The Bible appears antisemitic

1 Thess 2

for ye became imitators, brethren, of the assemblies of God that are in Judea in Christ Jesus, because such things ye suffered, even ye, from your own countrymen, as also they from the Jews, 15who did both put to death the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and did persecute us, and God they are not pleasing, and to all men [are] contrary,
16forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always, but the anger did come upon them -- to the end!


​

Even God when he judged them.





Seems to me Hagee is the one planning to do the rounding up.

 

[Bible2]

Matthew 24:9 says why some will be hated and killed
by all nations: because of the name of Jesus Christ,
not because of their claiming that they are Israel.
Matthew 24:10 means that it's because Christians will
be hated and killed by all nations that some
Christians will become "offended" with Christ
(Matthew 11:6) for letting them be persecuted (Matthew
13:21, Mark 4:17). But Jesus has told us of the coming
worldwide persecution of Christians ahead of time
precisely so we can prepare ourselves to go through it
and not become "offended" (John 16:1-2).

Christians will betray other Christians during the
coming worldwide persecution (Matthew 24:10) in order
to save their own skins, not realizing that in doing
so they will lose their salvation (Mark 8:35-28, John
12:25, Revelation 12:11).

If we want to keep our salvation, we must never become
ashamed of Christ or his words in the Bible (Mark 8:38,
John 8:31) in order to escape suffering for them
(2 Timothy 2:12). And Christ had some pretty hard words
against some Jews (John 8:44-48, Revelation 3:9, 2:9),
as did the apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 2:14-16), not
because Jesus and Paul were Anti-Semitic, for they are
both Jews themselves (John 4:9,22, Acts 22:3), but
because they didn't worship all Jews as if they can
never do any wrong.

The Bible clearly shows that God doesn't consider all
Jews to be Jews (Romans 2:28-29), but does consider
all believing Jews and Gentiles to be Jews
(Philippians 3:3). Likewise, God doesn't consider all
Jews to be Israel (Romans 9:6-8), but does consider
all believing Jews and Gentiles to be Israel, for all
believing Jews remain Israel (Romans 11:1), and all
believing Gentiles have been grafted into the good
olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:24, cf. Jeremiah
11:16), the Jews' own olive tree (Romans 11:24b). All
believing Gentiles have been made fellow citizens in
Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), so that the whole church
is Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b).

Moreover, God doesn't consider all Jews to be the
children of Abraham (John 8:39-40), but does consider
all believing Jews and Gentiles to be the children of
Abraham (Galatians 3:29). And lastly, God doesn't even
consider all Jews to be the children of God (John
8:42), but does consider all believing Jews and
Gentiles to be the children of God (John 1:12). God
considers all non-elect unbelieving Jews to be the
children of Satan (John 8:44, Revelation 3:9, 2:9),
just as God considers all non-elect unbelieving people,
regardless of whether they're Jews or Gentiles, to be
the children of Satan (Matthew 13:38-42, 1 John 3:8-10).

Now if we feel ashamed over all of these hard Biblical
truths, or any others, and deny them before the world
in order to gain the world's favor and escape its
persecution, we may gain the whole world, but we'll
end up losing our eternal souls (Mark 8:35-38,
2 Timothy 2:12).

But we mustn't become rabid against unbelieving Jews
and Gentiles either, as if they are all incorrigibly
evil, for we don't know which of them are elect, and
so could repent and become believers in the future.
We must show love and kindness toward all unbelievers
at all times (Titus 3:2-7, 2 Timothy 2:24-26) and not
ever do them the slightest harm, even if they harm us
(Matthew 5:39, 26:52).

There are some elect unbelieving Jews who will all
become believers and be saved at the second coming,
when they see Jesus (Romans 11:26-29, Zechariah
12:10-14). Unbelieving Jews who are elect are still
considered by God to be Israel (Romans 11:25-29), even
though they've been temporarily cut off from the good
olive tree of Israel because of their unbelief (Romans
11:20); they'll be grafted back in if they come into
belief (Romans 11:23-24). So we mustn't ever boast
against the unbelieving Jews (Romans 11:18-22).

One doesn't have to be a dispensationalist to accept
the Biblical teaching that when Jesus returns he will
restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, 3:20-21).
He will sit upon the earthly throne of David (Luke
1:32, Isaiah 9:7) and rule the entire earth (Psalms
72:8, Zechariah 14:9) from Jerusalem (Micah 4:1-4,
Zechariah 14:8-21), which he will have saved from an
attack which will have occurred right before his
second coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, 12:9-14). And
because the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b),
the church will reign on the earth with Jesus during
the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29,
Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

Dispensationalist Christians "united for Israel" are
not actually united for Israel itself, but only united
for Israel being entirely separate from the church,
for dispensationalism wrongly thinks that only Israel
has to go through the coming tribulation and that
Christians won't have to. So dispensationalism, in its
stark terror of the coming tribulation, eagerly places
Israel on a pedestal, but only as its scapegoat, the
one that will have to go away into the wilderness
(Leviticus 16:10, Revelation 12:6), into the torture
and death of the coming tribulation, while Christians
will get to float away into bliss in heaven.

Most Jews are probably not aware that dispensationalism
thinks that only the Jews will have to go into the
tribulation, while Christians are too special for God
to let them go into it; just as most Jews are probably
not aware that dispensationalism denies the Jews any
of the superior, "heavenly promises", which are
reserved only for the special Christians, while the
Jews get only the scraps of the inferior, "earthly
promises". So most most Jews are probably not aware
that dispensationalism thinks of them as people think
of their pet dogs: good enough to pet and stroke and
throw scraps down to, but certainly not good enough
to actually sit at the table with God in heaven, with
real human beings like Christians.

Some Jews are fully aware that dispensationalism
relegates them to the status of second-class citizens,
that dispensationalism sews yellow stars on Jews and
calls it a badge of honor, that dispensationalism, to
show its "full support for Israel" would drive Israel
to the train station, see Israel onto the train, blow
kisses to Israel as the train heads out of the station,
on its way to the gas chambers of the Antichrist, all
because this so encourages dispensationalism, to think
that Christians won't have to be on that train, to
think that, thank God, it's only for "the Jews".

Many Jews are fully aware of all of this; they aren't
stupid. But they'll take the donation checks and
political support of dispensationalists nonetheless,
for every little bit helps, and in a world full of the
enemies of Israel, there's no use driving away people
who claim that they're Israel's friends. Of course,
Israel may consider its dispensationalist friends to
be utter lunatics, Christian fundamentalist nutjobs,
but Israel feels that it doesn't have to fear their
crazy notions of "the coming tribulation" and "the
Antichrist" because it doesn't believe in any of that
stuff anyway. But, hey, if it motivates fearful
dispensationalists to praise and stuff the pockets of
the scapegoat, where's the harm?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

John Hagee and Anti-Semitism

Matthew 24: 9-11, Luke 21: 16, Luke 12: 11, and John 16: 2 are all end time
prophecies about a coming persecution of Christians.

Luke 21: 16 says ""And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." "Some" has been added to the King James English because its not in the Greek Textus Receptus."

There is an indication in some of these texts that churches will be involved in the persecuition of Christians. Luke 12: 11: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:"

Synagogues is Strong's number 4864, meaning "an assemblage of persons, a Jewish synagogue, by analogy, a Christian church, assembly,
congregation, synagogue." Sunagoge in the Greek, or synagogue,
can mean a Christian church. Magistrates probably refers to judges, to whom Christians are brought on some kind of charge, such as blasphemy under the Noahide laws or hate speech laws.

John 16: 2 says "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

This is a fearful verse, saying that churches will throw Christinas out, and there is a possible implication here that churches will be involved in the death of Christians. Again, synagogues can be Christian churches.

No one knows for sure now how it will come about that churches will be involved in the persecution of Christians. Below is one possible scenario about how this might come about.

On a blog
which is pro-John Hagee and pro-Christians United For Israel (CUFI)
the writer explains that John Hagee does not use the term in the Book
of Revelation, the Great harlot, to describe the Catholic Church. The
writer of this blog says "It is actually Revelation that supplies us
with the term "Great harlot." Pastor Hagee merely explains that this
will be an "apostate church" made up of all those who abandon the
teachings of Christ and embrace false doctrines such as
anti-Semitism."

Remember that recently John Hagee in an interview on Jews On First at
says that Christians who say that we are spiritual Israel are guilty
of an anti-semitic theology. This was reported in an article by
Harmony Grant called John Hagee False Prophet.

To Hagee and his many dispensationalist followers, Christians who say
we are Israel are part of the "apostate church," the Great harlot of
Revelation 17: 1. Now Congress has passed "The Global Anti-Semitism
Awareness/Review Act" to create a State Department office to monitor
international anti-Semitism. The passing of this act is reported on
World Net Daily at

The State Department has a 94 page document defining anti-semitism at

This report says that "The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia (EUMC)"in
close collaboration with the Organization
for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office of Democratic
Institutions and Human Rights, international experts on anti-
Semitism, and civil society organizations" began discussing a common
approach to data collection on anti-Semitism. This effort led to the drafting
of a Working Definition of Anti-Semitism. The EUMC's working
definition provides a useful framework for identifying and
understanding the problem and is adopted for the purposes of this
report: "Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be
expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical
and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward
Jewish or non-Jewish individuals
and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and
religious facilities."
Because the working definition is broad, the EUMC provides
explanatory text that discusses the kinds of acts that could be
considered anti-Semitic."

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical
allegations about Jews as such
&#8226; or the power of Jews as a collective"such as, especially but not
exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews
controlling the media, economy, government or other societal
institutions."

Criticism of the dispensationalist promotion of a Jewish kingdom to
appear perhaps in the end times could be anti-semitism. Criticism of
Jewish Zionism would be anti-semitism.

The official definition of anti-semitism may not in an explicit way go
so far as to include a Christian saying that Christians, not Jews, are
God's chosen people and that Christians are spiritual Israel. But
Christians who say they are Israel and the chosen people might be
defined as being anti-semitic under a more general and vague
definition of anti-semitism. And Christians who say they are Israel
and the chosen people of God could also be persecuted under terrorist
laws by defining them as terrorists, or under the Noahide laws, by
saying they are guilty of blasphemy for following Jesus Christ.

But the passing of The Global Anti-Semitism Awareness/Review Act by
the U.S. Congress and the The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia's Working Definition of Anti-Semitism are two small steps
closer to the setting up a process by which Christians who say we are
spiritual Israel can be charged with a crime.

Hi Bernard. I have heard bible teachers such as Kenneth Copeland, Oral Roberts, and those of my denomination state that we are Spiritual Israel. They arrive at this thought as we have been grafted into the true branches, but we have the Spirit of God, and they are blinded at this point. I of course do not believe that we are Israel literally in the true sense, but they are those who will accept Christ during the tribulation. I also go by the verse in the bible that states, Gal 3:28 ~ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. We will all be one once Israel's blinders are removed.
I believe the church will be persecuted as we get closer to the tribulation and during the tribulation. Just look at what is going on in this Presidential election with the anti semetic rhetoric that was being thrown out there by McCain and Palin. It doesn't take much to rile people up into a frenzy of hatred. I have never seen anything like this before in my 58 years, and the older crowd who do the news have said the same thing. It is going to come to a time where this verse does come into play...John 16:2 ~ They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
I can very easily see roaming bands of whacko's hunting down Christians, just like the KKK did blacks and hanging them or dragging them behind trucks. The mentality of this nation is getting more ripe for these kinds of things. Their thinking is becoming more reprobated all of the time as we near the coming of the soon I believe Antichrist.

 

[Bible2]

The church is Israel literally in the true sense
(Revelation 21:9b,12b). It has to be if it wants
to be saved, because the new covenant of salvation
(Matthew 26:28) is made only with Israel (Jeremiah
31:31-34). This is no problem for Jews in the church
(Acts 22:3), for they never stop being Israel
(Romans 11:1), and God has made it no problem for
Gentiles in the church (Romans 16:4), for he has
grafted them into Israel (Romans 11:24), declared
them fellow citizens in Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19).

---

Galatians 3:28 doesn't mean that there aren't Jews
and Gentiles, or males and females, in the church,
but that as far as God is concerned, it doesn't
matter whether a believer in Jesus Christ is a Jew or
a Gentile, a male or a female: all believers in Jesus
Christ will inherit all of the promises made to
Abraham and to his seed, for all believers are the
seed of Abraham through Jesus Christ (Galatians
3:16,28-29).

 

[Notrash]

John Hagee and Anti-Semitism


Matthew 24: 9-11, Luke 21: 16, Luke 12: 11, and John 16: 2 are all end time
prophecies about a coming persecution of Christians.

Luke 21: 16 says ""And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." "Some" has been added to the King James English because its not in the Greek Textus Receptus."

There is an indication in some of these texts that churches will be involved in the persecuition of Christians. Luke 12: 11: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:"

Synagogues is Strong's number 4864, meaning "an assemblage of persons, a Jewish synagogue, by analogy, a Christian church, assembly,
congregation, synagogue." Sunagoge in the Greek, or synagogue,
can mean a Christian church. Magistrates probably refers to judges, to whom Christians are brought on some kind of charge, such as blasphemy under the Noahide laws or hate speech laws.

John 16: 2 says "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

This is a fearful verse, saying that churches will throw Christinas out, and there is a possible implication here that churches will be involved in the death of Christians. Again, synagogues can be Christian churches.

No one knows for sure now how it will come about that churches will be involved in the persecution of Christians. Below is one possible scenario about how this might come about.

On a blog
which is pro-John Hagee and pro-Christians United For Israel (CUFI)
the writer explains that John Hagee does not use the term in the Book
of Revelation, the Great harlot, to describe the Catholic Church. The
writer of this blog says "It is actually Revelation that supplies us
with the term "Great harlot." Pastor Hagee merely explains that this
will be an "apostate church" made up of all those who abandon the
teachings of Christ and embrace false doctrines such as
anti-Semitism."

Remember that recently John Hagee in an interview on Jews On First at
says that Christians who say that we are spiritual Israel are guilty
of an anti-semitic theology. This was reported in an article by
Harmony Grant called John Hagee False Prophet.

To Hagee and his many dispensationalist followers, Christians who say
we are Israel are part of the "apostate church," the Great harlot of
Revelation 17: 1. Now Congress has passed "The Global Anti-Semitism
Awareness/Review Act" to create a State Department office to monitor
international anti-Semitism. The passing of this act is reported on
World Net Daily at

The State Department has a 94 page document defining anti-semitism at

This report says that "The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia (EUMC)"in
close collaboration with the Organization
for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office of Democratic
Institutions and Human Rights, international experts on anti-
Semitism, and civil society organizations" began discussing a common
approach to data collection on anti-Semitism. This effort led to the drafting
of a Working Definition of Anti-Semitism. The EUMC's working
definition provides a useful framework for identifying and
understanding the problem and is adopted for the purposes of this
report: "Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be
expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical
and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward
Jewish or non-Jewish individuals
and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and
religious facilities."
Because the working definition is broad, the EUMC provides
explanatory text that discusses the kinds of acts that could be
considered anti-Semitic."

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical
allegations about Jews as such
&#8226; or the power of Jews as a collective"such as, especially but not
exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews
controlling the media, economy, government or other societal
institutions."


Criticism of the dispensationalist promotion of a Jewish kingdom to
appear perhaps in the end times could be anti-semitism. Criticism of
Jewish Zionism would be anti-semitism.

The official definition of anti-semitism may not in an explicit way go
so far as to include a Christian saying that Christians, not Jews, are
God's chosen people and that Christians are spiritual Israel. But
Christians who say they are Israel and the chosen people might be
defined as being anti-semitic under a more general and vague
definition of anti-semitism. And Christians who say they are Israel
and the chosen people of God could also be persecuted under terrorist
laws by defining them as terrorists, or under the Noahide laws, by
saying they are guilty of blasphemy for following Jesus Christ.

It seems that this is the goal but I don't share the view that they will neccessarily succeed and that there has to neccessarily be a repeat of the fulfilled prophecies that Jesus told to his disciples and that were referring to the time period of 40-70 AD. They truly were taken to the synagogues and flogged; put out of the synagogues and hated by their bretheren in the flesh. I believe all of Luke 21, matt 24, mark 13 were fulfilled in that time period; but that there may be practical application in principle after that time period.

I think this idea that we are in the "end times' is part of the dispensational/judaic outlook and teaching and is probably what those groups want us to believe. I believe that becuase of Daniel 7 where it says that his kingdom (within believers) will never end. Weather that is a reference to eternal life or continuity of earthly existence; I dont' know.

The group of Israel were "God's chosen people" because they saw the miracles that God wrought as he took them out of Egypt and led them through the Red sea. It says this at least twice in deuteronomy. They were not "chosen" due to genetics except to bring in the 'seed' of Abraham which would bring in the one through whom all the nations of the earth would be blessed. Gen 17. That's why Jesus said, 'don't think that being of the stock of Abraham will save you'. That is also why I believe that the geneologies were allowed to be destroyed.

I think that what we bind on earth will be bound in heaven and what we loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. This I think can refer to loosing life, liberty, correct teaching and so forth and binding doom, hate, destruction, false teaching about 'end times' and so forth. Christian churches have been teaching 'end times' gloom and destruction for 160 yrs or so and from time to time even before this time. We need to both turn the tables and learn where and what these teachings have infiltrated and changed about the true teaching of 'the way'. But then I am of the view that Revelation is primarily refering to the judgments of Leviticus 26 and Dueteronomy 31 and 32 upon the atheistic/satanic sect of Jews.

But the passing of The Global Anti-Semitism Awareness/Review Act by
the U.S. Congress and the The European Monitoring Center on Racism and
Xenophobia's Working Definition of Anti-Semitism are two small steps
closer to the setting up a process by which Christians who say we are
spiritual Israel can be charged with a crime.

There is no doubt that this is serious topic, BUT the kingdom of God is within individuals and primarily relates to forgiven sins and indwelling of the Spirit, not neccessarily within govornments. And the church may go through such a similar period of trials as what was at the end of the age of the old covenant since it has taught and loosed some aspects of old covenant law and judaism through dispensationalism.

I do agree that the majority of orgainized institutional style churches; would be aligned with this dispensational theology, to it's support of 'Israel" and the hope of being materially or spiritually blessed by 'blessing Israel'. That phrase has become the passage of salvation and blessing to some people and groups such as those you mentioned rather than those blessings coming from believing 'even on the name' "person" of Jesus and calling on Him for forgiveness of sin for eternal life.

 

[Biblewriter]

John Hagee and Anti-Semitism

Matthew 24: 9-11, Luke 21: 16, Luke 12: 11, and John 16: 2 are all end time
prophecies about a coming persecution of Christians.

Luke 21: 16 says ""And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." "Some" has been added to the King James English because its not in the Greek Textus Receptus."

There is an indication in some of these texts that churches will be involved in the persecuition of Christians. Luke 12: 11: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:"

Synagogues is Strong's number 4864, meaning "an assemblage of persons, a Jewish synagogue, by analogy, a Christian church, assembly,
congregation, synagogue." Sunagoge in the Greek, or synagogue,
can mean a Christian church. Magistrates probably refers to judges, to whom Christians are brought on some kind of charge, such as blasphemy under the Noahide laws or hate speech laws.

John 16: 2 says "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

This is a fearful verse, saying that churches will throw Christinas out, and there is a possible implication here that churches will be involved in the death of Christians. Again, synagogues can be Christian churches.

It is a total assumption that Matthew 24 is about Christians. But numerous details in this chapter plainly show that this is not correct.

In verse 13 we read that "He that shall endure unto the end shall be saved." No scripture says this about faith in Christ, but rather that he that trusts Christ shall be saved.

In verse 15 we find "the abomination of desolaion spoken of by Daniel the prophet." This soeaks of the Jewish temple.

In verse 16 we find that "them which be in Judea" told to "flee into the mountains." This plainly applies to "them which be in Judea," not them which be in the Church.

In verse 20 they are told to pray that their flight would not be "on the Sabbath day." This is very plainly Jewish, not Christian.

This passage is about a persecution of faithful Jews by supporters the Antichrist during the tribulation. At that time the church will be gone, having been kept from the hour of temptation, as specifically promised in Revelation 3:10.

Luke 21, Luke 12, and John 16 are not speaking about the end times. They speak of the persecution of Christians by Jews which actually came about in the early years of Christianity, future then, but long past now,

The rest of your article would be much more convincing if you quoted John Hagee, rather that citing someone who made a claim about what he said. There are many false accusations against many people bandied about.

I have never been a fan of John Hagee, and I know he goes too far in his support of Israel. But I flatly do not believe that he supports persecuting anyone, much less Christians who do not agree with him.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Excellent points, Biblewriter.

 

[gwynedd1]

It is a total assumption that Matthew 24 is about Christians. But numerous details in this chapter plainly show that this is not correct.

In verse 13 we read that "He that shall endure unto the end shall be saved." No scripture says this about faith in Christ, but rather that he that trusts Christ shall be saved.

In verse 15 we find "the abomination of desolaion spoken of by Daniel the prophet." This soeaks of the Jewish temple.

In verse 16 we find that "them which be in Judea" told to "flee into the mountains." This plainly applies to "them which be in Judea," not them which be in the Church.

In verse 20 they are told to pray that their flight would not be "on the Sabbath day." This is very plainly Jewish, not Christian.

This passage is about a persecution of faithful Jews by supporters the Antichrist during the tribulation. At that time the church will be gone, having been kept from the hour of temptation, as specifically promised in Revelation 3:10.

Luke 21, Luke 12, and John 16 are not speaking about the end times. They speak of the persecution of Christians by Jews which actually came about in the early years of Christianity, future then, but long past now,

The rest of your article would be much more convincing if you quoted John Hagee, rather that citing someone who made a claim about what he said. There are many false accusations against many people bandied about.

I have never been a fan of John Hagee, and I know he goes too far in his support of Israel. But I flatly do not believe that he supports persecuting anyone, much less Christians who do not agree with him.

Hi Biblewriter,

This is an excellent example of where we agree on everything with the exception of the timing of its fulfillment. Its certainly localized to Judea. I may dislike John Hagee a bit more than you do perhaps.

 

[Bible2]

When the Luciferians take control of the whole world
during the 42-month Luciferian world-reign of the
Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-8), while they could
persecute Biblical Christians under terrorist laws by
defining them as terrorists, they probably won't
persecute them by saying that they're guilty of
blasphemy under any "Noahide laws" for following Jesus
Christ, for Luciferianism is directly opposed to YHWH,
the God of Noah (Genesis 7:1).

The Antichrist will revile YHWH (Daniel 11:36,
Revelation 13:6), and so would likewise revile Noah as
one of YHWH's followers. The Antichrist could say that
"YHWH showed how evil he is by, in the flood,
murdering everyone on the earth except Noah and his
family". And the Antichrist could revile all of the
Israelites of the Old Testament as followers of YHWH;
he could say that "YHWH and the Israelites showed how
evil they were in the Exodus and coming of the
Israelites into Palestine, when they were willing to
commit genocide against the inhabitants of Palestine
(Deuteronomy 19:1), murdering even the helpless little
children (Joshua 6:21)". The Antichrist could go on
and say "And haven't the Jews done the exact same thing
in our own time? How many Palestinians, even helpless
little children, have suffered and died at the vile
hands of the Zionists?".

So the Antichrist could have nothing to do with any
purported "Noahide laws", or anything else connected
with YHWH or the Jews, including Zionism.

And yet the Antichrist and his Luciferian followers
could still say that Biblical Christians are guilty
of blasphemy for following Jesus Christ, for the
Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John
2:22), and could claim that instead "Lucifer is the
Christ, for Lucifer is the morning star (Isaiah 14:12)
and Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16)".
Of course, the truth is that Lucifer fell from his
office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan
(Luke 10:18); Jesus has taken over the office of
morning star (Revelation 22:16).

And the Antichrist and his Luciferian followers could
say that Biblical Christians are terrorists because
the Antichrist and his Luciferian followers could set
up "false flag" terrorist attacks purportedly done by
Biblical Christians, but which will actually have been
done secretly by the Antichrist and his Luciferian
followers to completely discredit Biblical Christianity,
and make it seem like it's "the most dangerous enemy of
mankind and world peace". They could present Biblical
Christianity as "utterly hateful toward mankind,
wanting the vast majority of humans to be tortured
forever in fire and brimstone in hell. If that isn't
the worst terrorism imaginable, what is?".

---

While first-century Jewish Christians were taken to
the synagogues and flogged, put out of the synagogues
and hated by their brethren in the flesh, Luke 21,
Matthew 24, and Mark 13 (all the same Olivet
Discourse) weren't fulfilled in 40-70 AD, for Matthew
24:15 refers specifically to the abomination of
desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, which is
Daniel 11:31,36 (the same event as 2 Thessalonians
2:4), which has never been fulfilled and which will
be fulfilled by the Antichrist. Also, Matthew 24:29-31
has never been fulfilled, for it refers to the same
unfulfilled event as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17,
2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23,52-53,
and Revelation 19:7-21.

---

It isn't a total assumption that Matthew 24 is about
Christians, for Matthew 24 was addressed to the
apostles. If the apostles aren't Christians, who is?
And Matthew 24:9 refers to Christians being hated
for the name of Jesus Christ.

Not one detail in Matthew 24 shows in any way that
Matthew 24 isn't about Christians. In verse 13, we
read that "He that shall endure unto the end shall
be saved", just as other scriptures say this about
faith in Christ (Hebrews 3:6,14). No scripture says
that he that trusts Christ shall be saved if he
doesn't endure unto the end (Romans 2:7, Colossians
1:23).

While in Matthew 24:15 we find "the abomination of
desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet", and
while this speaks of the Jewish temple (Daniel
11:31,36), Matthew 24:15 is referring to Christians,
"ye", seeing the abomination of desolation occur in
the Jewish temple. Paul likewise shows that Christians
will see the abomination of desolation, for the coming
of Jesus to gather together Christians can't occur
until sometime after the Antichrist sits in the temple
and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4); for
at Jesus' coming to gather together Christians, he
will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8,
Revelation 19:7,20). Jesus won't come to gather
together Christians until after the tribulation
(Matthew 24:29-31); Christians will have to suffer and
die during the 42-month Luciferian world-reign of the
Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-10, 14:12-13, 20:4).

While in Matthew 24:16 we find that "them which be in
Judaea" are told to "flee into the mountains", this
plainly applies to the many people in the church who
are living in Judaea today, just as many people in the
church have lived in Judaea in the past (Galatians 1:22).

While in Matthew 24:20 Christians are told to pray
that their flight will not be "on the Sabbath day",
this isn't Jewish instead of Christian, for many
Christians observe the Sabbath (Romans 14:5a), and
the parallel verse in Mark 13:18 doesn't mention the
Sabbath, showing that it's not a sine qua non to the
point of the verse; for not all Christians observe
the Sabbath (Romans 14:5b).

Matthew 24:9-13 is about a persecution of faithful
Christians by supporters of the Antichrist during the
tribulation. At that time the church won't be gone;
many in the church will still be alive on the earth
at that time (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4).

---

The people kept from the hour of temptation, as
specifically promised in Revelation 3:10, were
those in the first-century local church congregation
in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the
Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11). The hour
of temptation in Revelation 3:10 was a first-century
persecution which another first-century local church
congregation in the city of Smyrna, also in the Roman
province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), had to suffer
and die in for ten days (Revelation 2:10). The first-
century local church congregation in the city of
Philadelphia wasn't kept from the hour of temptation
by being removed from the world, but by being kept
from the evil while remaining on the earth (cf. John
17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30).

---

Luke 21 and Luke 12 are speaking about the end times,
for Luke 21 is the same Olivet-Discourse account of
the coming tribulation as Matthew 24, and Luke 21:27
and Luke 12:36-48 are referring to the same second
coming as Matthew 24:30-51, which the church is still
watching (staying awake, spiritually) for.

---

Luke 21 and Luke 12 include reference to the
persecution of Christians living in Israel by ultra-
Orthodox Jews living in Israel. This has already begun
a little bit in that ultra-Orthodox Jews living in
Israel have already begun burning New Testaments
handed out by Christians living in Israel, and they are
trying to get Christians living in Israel banned from
being able to preach Jesus or hand out New Testaments
in Israel. As the ultra-Orthodox Jews gain more and
more political power in Israel, they will no doubt
come down harder and harder against the Christians
living in Israel, to where they will even begin to use
violence against them, such as beating them and driving
them out of synagogues and ultra-Orthodox towns in
Israel. Ultimately, the ultra-Orthodox Jews will
succeed in being allowed to institute the Mosaic law
in parts of Israel, and so will be allowed to execute
anyone who preaches anything different than the Mosaic
law, as they will define that as blasphemy against
YHWH, which is punishable by death under the Mosaic
law (Leviticus 24:16).

---

The Olivet-Discourse account of the coming tribulation
in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is in no way
limited to Judaea, but specifically says that the
coming tribulation will involve everyone on the
face of the whole earth (Luke 21:35,25-26,10-11).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have never been a fan of John Hagee, and I know he goes too far in his support of Israel. But I flatly do not believe that he supports persecuting anyone, much less Christians who do not agree with him.

He is no big fan of the Catholics....