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John Calvin on Isaiah 61:21

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by Humble_Disciple, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    As John Calvin explains below, the people in Isaiah 61:21 are God’s elect who enter the Kingdom of God, not by their own free-willed efforts, but by God’s planting and the work of His hands, for the glory of God alone.

    Isaiah 60:21
    Also your people shall all be righteous;
    They shall inherit the land forever,
    The branch of My planting,
    The work of My hands,
    That I may be glorified.


    If we continue on to Isaiah 64:4-7, we see man’s total inability to do anything pleasing to God due to original sin, not even to call on the name of God without His grace.

    In order to be saved, we need to be worked on by God like a potter works on clay.
    (Isaiah 64:8, Romans 9:21-23)

    We can be assured that God’s elect will be gathered from all nations and tongues, that they shall come by His irresistible grace, and see His glory. (Isaiah 14:24, Isaiah 46:10-11, Isaiah 55:11, Isaiah 66:18)

     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  2. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    i think that elect is misunderstood all together in Calvinist teachings.

    i believe that when the bible talks about the elect then it talks about those who walk in The Spirit of God, they are always elect walking in His Spirit, yet at other times the same people may walk in their fleshly spirit, and not be elect in that self, but cut of by the sword that comes out of Christ mouth. Hebrews 4:12-13 tells us more accurately how that goes.

    Election as taught by John Calvin will mislead many a bible reader in either concluding the are, or they are not elect by their own deduction. Such teachings have caused untold suffering in some, and false security in others, but has seldom let people to the truth of a life in God's loving truth.

    i have learned to understand that God's word cuts to the heart, and that in my heart election stands. For in my heart i'm in part elected to live with Christ, because God Himself made sure i had life in His Spirit, yet in my flesh and earthly spirit i perish, time and again, until i am no more when i breathe my last breath.

    So glad Jesus has chosen me in my elected selves to rule beside Him, for for years i was despised and hated by religious self, who ironically perished like the beast of the field in the end with so much else that proceeded from my old nature and not from His Spirit.

    Only when we walk in His Spirit are we chosen and elect, not at any other time, in our sinful self we will always perish, along with all that is numbered to be erased out of our psyche.

    All Glory to Jesus

    :wave:

    1 John 3:6 "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
     
  3. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    Calvin's teachings do nothing but confuse the unlearned and unbeliever, but is a great encouragement to the believer looking for God's help.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So how do you interpret 2 Thessalonians 2:10? It basically says that the reason why those who perish are perishing is because.... THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH that they MIGHT BE SAVED. It does not say they are perishing because they were not elected. It also says that “they MIGHT be saved.” There is no “MIGHT be saved” in Unconditional Election or Calvinism.

    Also, Jesus tells people basically to repent or perish in Luke 13:3. In Calvinism: The Elect are never truly in danger of ever perishing and the Non-Elect cannot repent.

    Jonah 3:1-10 teaches that God told the Ninevites that they would be destroyed in 40 days, but the Ninevites repented (i.e. they sought forgiveness with God by crying out to Him, and they forsaked their evil ways). When God had seen they had forsaken their wickedness, that is when God turned back on bringing His Wrath upon that He was going to originally bring upon them. Just read the short chapter for yourself and it is clear. The Ninevites changed the situation and it was not God electing them to salvation all of a sudden.
     
  5. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    1. "that they might be saved" is an expression of purpose, NOT an expression of uncertainty.

    2. "repent or perish" is a means to instill the fear of God, not a means to salvation. Warnings in scripture affect the elect, but the non-elect go headlong to destruction in disregard of the warnings.

    3. The Ninevites changed their condition because God was working with them to change it. And it was not an election to salvation, rather it was a preservation of their city.

    God saves the elect by means of His providential actions. This is understood by a mere cursory examination of scripture.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, there is no MIGHT BE SAVED in Calvinism, and yet this verse says that. Your unclear mysterious words does not really undo what 2 Thessalonians 2:10 plainly says.

    Jesus was not into false scare tactics or trickery. Perish in context to not repenting means a loss of salvation. For Jesus tells others to repent for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Meaning, it is a salvation issue. For by repenting is tied to being in the Kingdom.

    No. Anyone can read clearly this in the book of Jonah to see that your line of thinking here is false. For Jonah 3 says, “And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.” (Jonah 3:10).

    God repented (turned back) from the evil He said He would do unto them and He did it not. Why? Because it says He decided to Elect them all of a sudden? No. It was because God saw their works and they turned from their evil way.
     
  7. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    Your interpretation assumes that God didn't know what they would do until they did it (concerning the Ninevites). But scripture is worded that way as an accommodation to the ignorance of men. It is not teaching what you want it to teach, that God waits for a work of repentance in man before He takes action. From your response, it is apparent to me that you just don't understand the Providential working of God, which even unbelieving Jews acknowledge from their studies of scripture.

    But let me use your words in this case: if Jesus is not into false scare tactics (as how you word it), then neither is God in the book of Jonah. So if God had Providential control over the enemies of Ninevah, such that He prevented them from attacking the city, then God also had Providential control over the Ninevites to induce them to repent. IOW, Jonah's prophecy wasn't a "false scare tactic" as you call it. There was a real enemy who were planning on destroying Ninevah.

    From a strictly natural human POV, it looks like God relates to men the same way that men relate to men, such as the case "if he repents, then forgive him." God's relationship with His own is vastly deeper and more extensive than what you make it out to be.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Nope. Nowhere did I claim I was an Open Theist or believed that God did not know what was going to happen. God did what He did to get the Ninevites to repent.

    Again, Calvinism cannot be found in Jonah 3. You say it is worded in a way to accomodate the ignorance of men. But we can say that with any of the Scriptures we do not like because it does not align with our personal beliefs we want to be true. Just saying so does not prove that you are right. The rule of thumb for reading any text is to read it in the most plain way possible unless there is an indication in the text suggesting otherwise. You have not proved by Jonah 3 of how Calvnism works. You have not resolved the dilema for Calvinism in that God had seen the Ninevites forsake their evil ways and He turned back from the evil He was going to originally bring upon them.

    Sorry, I do believe in the sovereignty of God as the Bible teaches it, but I don't buy into Calvinism because it simply does not exist in the Scriptures. Calvinism is about as silly as believing in a flat Earth.

    But see, that is the case if Calvinism was true. I don't believe in Calvinism. You do. For if the Ninevites were saved, then they were forever saved from the beginning of time by God's election, and it was nothing they did. So Jonah warning them of any destruction would be a false scare tactic. I believe the threat to the Ninevites was very real. If they did not repent, they would have perished and they would have not been saved.

    If God induced them to repent, then there would have been no need for Jonah to threaten them with destroying Ninevah in order to get them to repent.

    No. You are trying to do gymnastic flips with the text of the Bible to fit Calvinism when it simply doesn't fit.
     
  9. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    I had forgotten that you were a person who just wants to argue. I'll let you have the last word.
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    No need to make it about me.
    We can of course agree to disagree and move on.
    May the Lord bless you (even if we disagree over the illogical tenets of Calvinism).
     
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