John 3:16-17 what does it tell us?

[zoidar]

What do you make of John 3:16-17?

Who is the word "world" refering to?

Who are the "everyone/whoever"?

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

I think we can look at John 3:16 with two questions in mind.

Why did God send His Son?
- For God so loved every single person in the world.

What was God's purpose for sending His Son?
- That the believing ones would be saved.

What John 3:16 isn't answering is who the believing ones are. From my view everyone can become a believing one.

Edited this thread's name and questions.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 7 says only the FEW are saved in the end. Even though the "MANY" say "Lord Lord... did we not do many things IN YOUR NAME" -- i.e. Christians.

2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that ANY should perish" but Matt 7 says "MANY" do.

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" --

Isaiah 5:4 "WHAT MORE was there to do that I have not already done?"

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Everyone is in view in John 3:16.

However, one of the top things we need to understand about John 3:16 is that the word “believeth” is more than just believing in the person of Jesus for salvation but it is believing in everything He taught, said, and did, too. Jesus taught that everyone who does not do what He says they are like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27). Jesus also said in John 5:29, “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” So obviously believing in Jesus is more than just having a belief alone in Jesus for salvation. To truly believe or trust in Jesus means to obey Jesus.

 

[BobRyan]

Believing in Jesus in John 3:16 is more than just believing in the person of Jesus for salvation but it is believing in everything He taught, said, and did, too. Jesus taught that everyone who does not do what He says they are like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27). Jesus also said in John 5:29, “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” So obviously believing in Jesus is more than just having a belief alone in Jesus for salvation. To truly believe or trust in Jesus means to obey Jesus.

True "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

 

[zoidar]

Believing in Jesus in John 3:16 is more than just believing in the person of Jesus for salvation but it is believing in everything He taught, said, and did, too. Jesus taught that everyone who does not do what He says they are like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27). Jesus also said in John 5:29, “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” So obviously believing in Jesus is more than just having a belief alone in Jesus for salvation. To truly believe or trust in Jesus means to obey Jesus.

Might be so, but that is not really what this discussion is about. Does the world mean every single person in John 3:16? That's the question.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Believing in Jesus in John 3:16 is more than just believing in the person of Jesus for salvation but it is believing in everything He taught, said, and did, too. Jesus taught that everyone who does not do what He says they are like a fool who built His house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27). Jesus also said in John 5:29, “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” So obviously believing in Jesus is more than just having a belief alone in Jesus for salvation. To truly believe or trust in Jesus means to obey Jesus.

Might be so,

I believe it is a biblical fact. According to the Bible: Faith or believing God is more than just a belief alone with no obedience. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone?

You can learn more as to why I think this is the case according to the Bible in this thread here:

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

but that is not really what this discussion is about. Does the world mean every single person in John 3:16? That's the question.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, brother, and you are free to do as you wish (of course): However, if I was in your shoes, I would rename the thread to address this particular point so as to be clear with others that this is the point of discussion. If you are not sure how to change your thread title, simply go to the top of your thread near your original post (first post) and to the right there is a button called, “Thread Tools.” Click on this button and a drop down option appears giving you the option to change the title thread (if that is something you want to do). I say this because sometimes people do not even read the OP. Granted, I read the OP, and I did not get that is what you wanted the thread topic to be exclusively about. The previous thread title looked like a continuation of the previous topic (Which was Calvinism being like Universalism). I see the problem of Calvinism as changing the good character of our God and I also see it as teaching that we do not bear any responsbility in living a holy life without any punishment in the afterlife by God for it (in many circles of Calvinism).

Anyways, to address this point about John 3:16, I believe Jesus was referring to everyone.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16).

First, God so loved the world and not just the Calvinistic Elect as a part of the John 3:16 promise. Second, whoever believes in him for everlasting life is clearly talking to all people within Jesus' conversation to Nicodemus. While salvation did not yet go out to the Gentiles yet at this point, we know that after the cross, that salvation also went out to the Gentiles, too. Cornelius and his house were saved by his believing Peter's gospel message.

Also, the jailer asked Peter and Silas what he must do to be saved,

and they replied,

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(Acts of the Apostles 16:31).​

So things have not changed after the cross. The core message of salvation in believing in Jesus is still the same. We are to believe in Jesus for salvation but that would be believing in everything He taught, said, and did. If not, that is not really believing in Jesus. We cannot reject the words of Jesus and say we also trust or believe in Him.

But it is obvious John 3:16 is for all people, and not just a select group only.
God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). For if this was not the case, then how is God able to hold men accountable at the judgment if they had no power to choose otherwise to change their situation? It would be like a master kicking his dog who has an uncontrollable pooping problem. That would be cruel of the master to do that. Yet, that is the picture painted of the god of Calvinism. However, the God of the Bible says in His Word... God so loved the WORLD.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

True "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Yes, all people will be without excuse who refuse to accept the words of Jesus in accepting His grace, and in living holy by the power of the Spirit of God.

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).
​

The word “He” in the above verse means anyone because God's ultimate plan was for the salvation of all (See the last verse in this post below). Jesus says any person who does not receive His words, His words will judge them on the last day (i.e. at the Judgment).

This is a scary thought. Imagine the Lord Jesus judging us by His words in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Luke 9:62, and Luke 10:25-28.
Are we truly loving the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength? Are we truly actively putting away sins that our Lord condemned? Most today are not doing so. Sadly, they think they are saved by a belief alone in Jesus.

We are living in the last days and men have a form of godliness but they deny the power thereof (2 Timothy 3:1-9). The power they deny is being able to overcome grievous sin or sins that the Bible condemns with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation. The great falling away has already begun.

For true grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). This again is for all people. God wants all men to be saved.

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” (1 Timothy 2:4).

 

[zoidar]

I believe it is a biblical fact. According to the Bible: Faith or believing God is more than just a belief alone with no obedience. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone?

You can learn more as to why I think this is the case according to the Bible in this thread here:

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

I will look at the link later. Quite tired in my head from thinking at the moment.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, brother, and you are free to do as you wish (of course): However, if I was in your shoes, I would rename the thread to address this particular point so as to be clear with others that this is the point of discussion. If you are not sure how to change your thread title, simply go to the top of your thread near your original post (first post) and to the right there is a button called, “Thread Tools.” Click on this button and a drop down option appears giving you the option to change the title thread (if that is something you want to do). I say this because sometimes people do not even read the OP. Granted, I read the OP, and I did not get that is what you wanted the thread topic to be exclusively about. The previous thread title looked like a continuation of the previous topic (Which was Calvinism being like Universalism). I see the problem of Calvinism as changing the good character of our God and I also see it as teaching that we do not bear any responsbility in living a holy life without any punishment in the afterlife by God for it (in many circles of Calvinism).

Absolutely no hard feelings at all. The thread got closed so I thought we might continue it here. I know it's crazy, but it's like I really need to prove that I'm right, even I know in my heart I am. Stress syndrom maybe?

Anyways, to address this point about John 3:16, I believe Jesus was referring to everyone.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16).

First, God so loved the world and not just the Calvinistic Elect as a part of the John 3:16 promise. Second, whoever believes in him for everlasting life is clearly talking to all people within Jesus' conversation to Nicodemus. While salvation did not yet go out to the Gentiles yet at this point, we know that after the cross, that salvation also went out to the Gentiles, too. Cornelius and his house were saved by his believing Peter's gospel message.

Also, the jailer asked Peter and Silas what he must do to be saved,

and they replied,

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
(Acts of the Apostles 16:31).​

So things have not changed after the cross. The core message of salvation in believing in Jesus is still the same. We are to believe in Jesus for salvation but that would be believing in everything He taught, said, and did. If not, that is not really believing in Jesus. We cannot reject the words of Jesus and say we also trust or believe in Him.

But it is obvious John 3:16 is for all people, and not just a select group only.
God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). For if this was not the case, then how is God able to hold men accountable at the judgment if they had no power to choose otherwise to change their situation? It would be like a master kicking his dog who has an uncontrollable pooping problem. That would be cruel of the master to do that. Yet, that is the picture painted of the god of Calvinism. However, the God of the Bible says in His Word... God so loved the WORLD.

Thanks for the response!

 

[Clare73]

What do you make of John 3:16-17?
Who is the word "world" refering to?
Who are the everyone/whoever?
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal

life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17
I think we can look at John 3:16 with two questions in mind.
Why did God send His Son?
- For God so loved every single person in the world.

Never a good idea to alter the text.

was God's purpose for sending His Son?
- That the believing ones would be saved.

What John 3:16 isn't answering is who the believing ones are. From my view everyone can become a believing one.

 

[zoidar]

Never a good idea to alter the text.

Why?

 

[Clare73]

Why?

Take out all the "nots" and put in "shalls"?

 

[zoidar]

True "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Yes, all people will be without excuse who refuse to accept the words of Jesus in accepting His grace, and in living holy by the power of the Spirit of God.

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).
​

The word “He” in the above verse means anyone because God's ultimate plan was for the salvation of all (See the last verse in this post below). Jesus says any person who does not receive His words, His words will judge them on the last day (i.e. at the Judgment).

This is a scary thought. Imagine the Lord Jesus judging us by His words in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Luke 9:62, and Luke 10:25-28.
Are we truly loving the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength? Are we truly actively putting away sins that our Lord condemned? Most today are not doing so. Sadly, they think they are saved by a belief alone in Jesus.

We are living in the last days and men have a form of godliness but they deny the power thereof (2 Timothy 3:1-9). The power they deny is being able to overcome grievous sin or sins that the Bible condemns with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation. The great falling away has already begun.

For true grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). This again is for all people. God wants all men to be saved.

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” (1 Timothy 2:4).

I changed the name of the thread and added questions. Feel free to delete or change your posts.

God bless!

 

[zoidar]

Take out all the "nots" and put in "shalls"?

Ah, finally get you. Thought you were talking about that I altered the thread.

 

[zoidar]

Take out all the "nots" and put in "shalls"?

How about this then?

Why did God send His Son?
- For God so loved the world (every single person), that He gave His only begotten Son.

What was God's purpose for sending His Son?
- that whoever (everyone that) believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Clare73]

How about this then?

Why did God send His Son?
- For God so loved the world (every singel person), that He gave His only begotten Son.

What was God's purpose for sending His Son?
- that whoever (everyone that) believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

World can mean several different things in the NT: earth, human race, Gentiles as distinguished from Jews, present condition of human affairs in alienation from God, temporal possessions, metaphorically (a world of ---), an age, a period of time, the inhabited earth, of the Roman empire.

 

[zoidar]

World can mean several different things in the NT.

I know that is why this thread hopefully will be interesting.

 

[zoidar]

World can mean several different things in the NT: earth, human race, Gentiles as distinguished from Jews, present condition of human affairs in alienation from God, temporal possessions, metaphorically (a world of ---), an age, a period of time, the inhabited earth, of the Roman empire.

"World" is mentioned three times in John 3:16-17. What do you make of it?

 

[Clare73]

"World" is mentioned three times in John 3:16-17. What do you make of it?

Gentiles as well as Jews.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I changed the name of the thread and added questions. Feel free to delete or change your posts.

God bless!

Thanks. I did slightly alter my post #3.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

I see John 3:16 as referring to “world” as it plainly says (and not the Elect as the Calvinist would claim) because Scripture also says:

#1. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4).

#2. The Lord is... longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

#3. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) (Note: Jesus is the propitiation or atoning sacrifice for believer's sins, but also for the sins of the WHOLE world).

#4. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. (John 12:31-33) (Note: Clearly all men means all men because the context is referring to the prince of this world (satan) being the ruler of the entire earth; For surely the devil is not ruler over the Elect).

#5. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. (John 12:46-47). (Note: Jesus came as a light INTO the world and then He says that He came not to judge the world (still speak of the word “world” but to save the world).

#6. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31) (Note: God commands ALL men EVERYWHERE to repent. God has appointed a day whereby he will judge the WORLD in righteousness; This clearly does not make any sense if it is talking about the Elect only or it is referring to some kind of Limited Atonement mumbo jumbo).

#7. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29). (Note: Why is there is a resurrection of the wicked or those who are damned? It's because Jesus did pay the price for the sins and they are able to rise by the power of Christ's resurrection. However, because the wicked justified sin, their new body will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire instead).

#8. ...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe (1 Timothy 4:10).

#9. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1). (Note: These false prophets and or teachers who denied the Lord who BOUGHT them. But the Calvinist believes that Jesus only bought the Elect; So this verse presents a problem for their Theology).

#10. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man (Hebrews 2:9).​

Anyways, I hope this helps.

May God bless you all in the name of Jesus Christ.