John 19:25-29 (EO, OO)

[archer75]

When Christ says "behold thy son" - is there traditional agreement about whether he means "Mother, look at what's happening to your son, who won't be here to take care of you in the same way" or "Mother, here is your 'new' son, who will take care of you"?

Either way, the sense of the passage is the same, but I am wondering about what this part means.

 

[ArmyMatt]

the latter, although she takes care of us. all Christians are called to be St John at the foot of the Cross looking at the Lord, in the midst of the Church.

 

[ewq1938]

When Christ says "behold thy son" - is there traditional agreement about whether he means "Mother, look at what's happening to your son, who won't be here to take care of you in the same way" or "Mother, here is your 'new' son, who will take care of you"?

Either way, the sense of the passage is the same, but I am wondering about what this part means.

Verse 27 makes it clear what Christ is talking about:

Joh 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Joh 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

The disciple would have a new mother, and she a new son.

 

[archer75]

Verse 27 makes it clear what Christ is talking about:

Joh 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Joh 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

The disciple would have a new mother, and she a new son.

Yes, I understand the overall sense of the passage. I just meant "what exactly does he mean in the first part?"

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, I understand the overall sense of the passage. I just meant "what exactly does he mean in the first part?"

If he says the disciple has new mother then when he says "Woman, behold thy son!" it is the same thing reversed...the mother has a new son. Jesus is not saying, "Woman, behold me!"

 

[TuxAme]

I'm not Orthodox, but we should assume the second since He also tells John to behold his mother. However, more than simply ensuring Mary's temporal wellbeing, Jesus is entrusting us to His mother.

 

[ewq1938]

However, more than simply ensuring Mary's temporal wellbeing, Jesus is entrusting us to His mother.

What part of the text supports that idea?

 

[~Anastasia~]

What part of the text supports that idea?

You have to remember we are not sola scriptura. Our interpretations come from how the Church has always understood various passages rather than having to prove over and over again using the text alone.

If the early Christians understood something in a certain way, it was passed down and we consider that the only legitimate way to interpret a particular passage.

(Not looking to argue with you, just pointing out that your question isn't the way we answer for interpretation.)

Such textual study can provide additional edifying insights - Scripture is rich and multi-layered and that is often possible (as long as it doesn't contradict what we know to be true). But it's not our only, or even our main approach.

 

[ewq1938]

You have to remember we are not sola scriptura. Our interpretations come from how the Church has always understood various passages rather than having to prove over and over again using the text alone.

If the early Christians understood something in a certain way, it was passed down and we consider that the only legitimate way to interpret a particular passage.

(Not looking to argue with you, just pointing out that your question isn't the way we answer for interpretation.)

I hear you...but I feel like I should express great concern that belief or tradition can be as important or more important that what scripture teaches. (or does not teach)

Contextually, Jesus only spoke of the one disciple to take Mary as his mother, not all Christians. If he wanted to express that, he would have but I respect why you believe as you do.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I hear you...but I feel like I should express great concern that belief or tradition can be as important or more important that what scripture teaches. (or does not teach)

Contextually, Jesus only spoke of the one disciple to take Mary as his mother, not all Christians. If he wanted to express that, he would have but I respect why you believe as you do.

While I appreciate your concern coming from where you probably do - many of us would equally express concern over the tendency of modern Christians to divorce Scripture from its context. That's not even what Martin Luther intended by "sola scriptura". It is a practice only of the past couple of centuries.

This isn't the place where we could debate it. There's always St. Justin's which allows debate.

But as to the topic, yes, the Theotokos was regarded as mother in a sense to all Christians, because she was mother to Jesus. This indicates the importance of the Incarnation and of Christ Himself in the story of mankind's salvation. To forget those things would leave us poorer in appreciation and understanding.

God be with you. (And really, please feel free to continue the discussion in St. Justin's if you wish - just not here as I don't want to see anyone get in trouble )

 

[ArmyMatt]

I hear you...but I feel like I should express great concern that belief or tradition can be as important or more important that what scripture teaches. (or does not teach)

Contextually, Jesus only spoke of the one disciple to take Mary as his mother, not all Christians. If he wanted to express that, he would have but I respect why you believe as you do.

just a thought to avoid a thread derail, but you could ask us too about the relationship between Scripture and tradition, especially since Scripture tells us to keep the tradition

 

[buzuxi02]

See Luke 7:12-17