John 14:15 If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments: -- so says Christ

[BobRyan]

1stcenturylady said: ↑
What does 1 John 3:9 mean. And how is it possible.

Indeed -- in fact 1 John 3:4-9... real teaching about real people - and not make-believe ideas about living in sin and yet "by their fruits you shall not know them" sort of tales.

1stcenturylady said: ↑
Tales? As in fairy tales? How irreverent! You didn't answer the question because you don't know.

Actually I argued FOR taking 1 John 3 seriously and NOT taking it as happy fiction and we both know it.

Not to me you didn't. .

Indeed -- in fact 1 John 3:4-9... real teaching about real people - and not make-believe ideas about living in sin and yet "by their fruits you shall not know them" sort of tales.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Another dodge ball move. Not a word in answer to my question of what it means that you cannot sin. Just another cut and paste job and still saying nothing at all of worth? Just a vague reply. As I thought, you don't have an answer because it doesn't fit the focus of your doctrine, which is law. Well, I've got news for you. It didn't work for the Jews, and it won't work for you either. There is more, and 1 John 3:4-10 is the result. But you don't want to hear anything else but yourself.

 

[BobRyan]

Another dodge ball move. .

You denied I posted this to you... and I proved that I did.

1stcenturylady said: ↑
What does 1 John 3:9 mean. And how is it possible.

Indeed -- in fact 1 John 3:4-9... real teaching about real people - and not make-believe ideas about living in sin and yet "by their fruits you shall not know them" sort of tales.

1stcenturylady said: ↑
Tales? As in fairy tales? How irreverent! You didn't answer the question because you don't know.

Actually I argued FOR taking 1 John 3 seriously and NOT taking it as happy fiction and we both know it.

Not to me you didn't. .

Indeed -- in fact 1 John 3:4-9... real teaching about real people - and not make-believe ideas about living in sin and yet "by their fruits you shall not know them" sort of tales.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You denied I posted this to you... and I proved that I did.

Okay, so you said it. Happy? Now answer the question.

What does it mean to be dead to sin???

How is that possible???

What does it mean that a Christian cannot sin?

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, so you said it. Happy? Now answer the question.

What does it mean to be dead to sin???

How is that possible???

The Gospel ...

Notice that Romans 8:4-10 point out the fact that the lost "do not submit to the law of God and indeed CAN NOT" .. this is contrasted to those who "in real life" walk according to the Spirit - under the Gospel.

And as always "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Gospel ...

Notice that Romans 8:4-10 point out the fact that the lost "do not submit to the law of God and indeed CAN NOT" .. this is contrasted to those who "in real life" walk according to the Spirit - under the Gospel.

And as always "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

You are still missing the counter part to what you zeroed in on. So, tell me again WHY are we dead to sin, and cannot sin? You are still focusing on the world, and not on Christians.

You keep talking about "in real life." Describe your real life?

 

[Asaph George]

Another dodge ball move. Not a word in answer to my question of what it means that you cannot sin. Just another cut and paste job and still saying nothing at all of worth? Just a vague reply. As I thought, you don't have an answer because it doesn't fit the focus of your doctrine, which is law. Well, I've got news for you. It didn't work for the Jews, and it won't work for you either. There is more, and 1 John 3:4-10 is the result. But you don't want to hear anything else but yourself.

Good comment sister.

We cannot be under the law and under grace at the same time. Paul says we are children of the free woman not of the bond woman.

I don't understand how Christians can miss this. It is very clear everywhere especially Acts 15 and the whole book of Galatians and the book of Romans.

very sad.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Good comment sister.

We cannot be under the law and under grace at the same time. Paul says we are children of the free woman not of the bond woman.

I don't understand how Christians can miss this. It is very clear everywhere especially Acts 15 and the whole book of Galatians and the book of Romans.

very sad.

But, you must admit that being under the law is not as bad as a perverted teaching on grace. They are completely lawless, and I think what Bob is most against, as am I.

Jude 1:4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

The true grace of God makes us dead to sin. That's what I'm trying to help Bob understand.

 

[Asaph George]

But, you must admit that being under the law is not as bad as a perverted teaching on grace. They are completely lawless, and I think what Bob is most against, as am I.

Jude 1:4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

The true grace of God makes us dead to sin. That's what I'm trying to help Bob understand.

I believe the bible says that both are wrong. Being under the law is being fallen from grace. That means the sacrifice of Christ is for nothing. That was the problem Paul was saying to the Galatians.

Perverting grace and turning it into a license to sin is also bad.

Both are wrong.

The truth is Liberty not to sin. Jesus Christ frees us from sin, we are no longer under the law because we are dead to the law, our flesh is no longer bound by the law because we are dead through Christ and now we live by the Spirit of Christ and we are no longer carnal. WE are FREE

Praise Jesus Christ.

 

[Shimshon]

The truth is Liberty not to sin. Jesus Christ frees us from sin, we are no longer under the law because we are dead to the law, our flesh is no longer bound by the law because we are dead through Christ and now we live by the Spirit of Christ and we are no longer carnal. WE are FREE

Praise Jesus Christ.

Indeed. John 8:36

 

[1stcenturylady]

I believe the bible says that both are wrong. Being under the law is being fallen from grace. That means the sacrifice of Christ is for nothing. That was the problem Paul was saying to the Galatians.

Perverting grace and turning it into a license to sin is also bad.

Both are wrong.

The truth is Liberty not to sin. Jesus Christ frees us from sin, we are no longer under the law because we are dead to the law, our flesh is no longer bound by the law because we are dead through Christ and now we live by the Spirit of Christ and we are no longer carnal. WE are FREE

Praise Jesus Christ.

Yes, exactly. The problem with those who only preach law, is that they have no appreciation for the absolute POWER of the Holy Spirit in one who has been baptized in the Spirit. All desire to sin is GONE! By being sin dead we don't need the law to tell us not to do something we don't have any desire to do in the first place. We love what God loves, and hate what God hates.

But, Bob has a problem with the fact that not every Commandment is covered by having no desire to sin. It is the Sabbath Commandment that he believes everyone of us who preach grace is breaking, thus making us lawless. He doesn't realize that belief on Jesus and trusting Him completely has replaced keeping a physical day holy. Jesus is the substance of the Sabbath rest. That is why the Father put the Sabbath Commandment in the center of His Covenant. It was a foreshadow to Jesus, Himself, being at the center of the New Covenant. Instead of ten commandments, we have two. 1 John 3:23

1. Believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ.
2. Love one another.

These are the two commandments that Jesus preached over and over.

The Sabbath was the SIGN of the Old Covenant, and the sign of our covenant is the CUP OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. 1 Corinthians 11:25 Our covenant is based on the blood of Jesus Christ. When Jesus cried out, "It is Finished!" that was the end of the old covenant. Now the eternal laws of God, having to do with LOVE, are written on our hearts. They are "LOVE God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and LOVE your neighbor as yourself." These are the laws written on our hearts. By obeying these two, it makes the moral laws contained in the Ten Commandments obsolete, as they can't be broken with the sinless Holy Spirit controlling us. If you notice in the gospels, anytime anyone asked Jesus "which commandments?" Jesus only mentions the moral laws, and then to follow Him. This is also true in the epistles.

I have no problem with Bob worshiping on Saturday, but I don't believe he can stop judging anyone who doesn't follow suit. And it is his mission to keep cutting and pasting the same few scriptures on the law, but can't answer simple questions about the gospel of Christ, and how it recreates us to no longer be under the law.

 

[Asaph George]

Yes, exactly. The problem with those who only preach law, is that they have no appreciation for the absolute POWER of the Holy Spirit in one who has been baptized in the Spirit. All desire to sin is GONE! By being sin dead we don't need the law to tell us not to do something we don't have any desire to do in the first place. We love what God loves, and hate what God hates.

But, Bob has a problem with the fact that not every Commandment is covered by having no desire to sin. It is the Sabbath Commandment that he believes everyone of us who preach grace is breaking, thus making us lawless. He doesn't realize that belief on Jesus and trusting Him completely has replaced keeping a physical day holy. Jesus is the substance of the Sabbath rest. That is why the Father put the Sabbath Commandment in the center of His Covenant. It was a foreshadow to Jesus, Himself, being at the center of the New Covenant. Instead of ten commandments, we have two. 1 John 3:23

1. Believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ.
2. Love one another.

These are the two commandments that Jesus preached over and over.

The Sabbath was the SIGN of the Old Covenant, and the sign of our covenant is the CUP OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. 1 Corinthians 11:25 Our covenant is based on the blood of Jesus Christ. When Jesus cried out, "It is Finished!" that was the end of the old covenant. Now the eternal laws of God, having to do with LOVE, are written on our hearts. They are "LOVE God with all your strength, mind and spirit, and LOVE your neighbor as yourself." These are the laws written on our hearts. By obeying these two, it makes the moral laws contained in the Ten Commandments obsolete, as they can't be broken with the sinless Holy Spirit controlling us. If you notice in the gospels, anytime anyone asked Jesus "which commandments?" Jesus only mentions the moral laws, and then to follow Him. This is also true in the epistles.

I have no problem with Bob worshiping on Saturday, but I don't believe he can stop judging anyone who doesn't follow suit. And it is his mission to keep cutting and pasting the same few scriptures on the law, but can't answer simple questions about the gospel of Christ.

Great to see a sister so full of the Spirit and who understands the gospel like that.

You said it right, the sabbath is a shadow. In the Old Testament scriptures, it was given to the Israelites to remind them of God taking out of Egypt. Everything in the OT has been given as physical shadows with spiritual fulfillments.

This represented the slavery of the jews in egypt where they were laboring night and day and having no rest. God gave PHYSICAL rest on that day. They rested from their physical labour. In the new testament, this is a shadow from when we will rest from our spiritual works of the Law. It is no longer us who are doing the works, it is the eternal God and His Holy Spirit doing the work through us if we believe on His Son. The same with circumcision, it was physical in the OT and now we have to be cirumcised in the heart. All these things are explained in the New Testament in the book of hebrews and the letters of Paul. They are spoken also by the Lord Jesus Christ but more in a hidden form which is done so that only people with an ear shall hear.

May God bless you sister. Keep strong, you are strong. The world needs strong women.

 

[BobRyan]

But, Bob has a problem with the fact that not every Commandment is covered by having no desire to sin. It is the Sabbath Commandment that he believes everyone of us who preach grace is breaking,

Your false accusation and creative writing skills appear to improve over time.

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, so you said it. Happy? Now answer the question.

What does it mean to be dead to sin???

How is that possible???

The Gospel ...

Notice that Romans 8:4-10 point out the fact that the lost "do not submit to the law of God and indeed CAN NOT" .. this is contrasted to those who "in real life" walk according to the Spirit - under the Gospel.

And as always "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

You are still missing the counter part to what you zeroed in on.

You are still missing the point of the scripture just quote to you

 

[BobRyan]

why so much opposition each time I point to the teaching of our Shepherd -- Jesus Christ?

Christ "our shepherd" says this --
Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said,
‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

In that example "Commandment of God" = "Moses Said" = "Word of God"

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Gospel ...

Notice that Romans 8:4-10 point out the fact that the lost "do not submit to the law of God and indeed CAN NOT" .. this is contrasted to those who "in real life" walk according to the Spirit - under the Gospel.

And as always "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4


You are still missing the point of the scripture just quote to you

I didn't ask about the LOST. I asked about the saved. You keep cutting and pasting about the LOST!!!!

 

[1stcenturylady]

why so much opposition each time I point to the teaching of our Shepherd -- Jesus Christ?

Christ "our shepherd" says this --
Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said,
‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

In that example "Commandment of God" = "Moses Said" = "Word of God"

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

Romans 6:14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

Why is this statement true?

 

[Asaph George]

Bob, you need to focus on the book of Galatians. read it more and more again and again.

Are you SDA? The Law is fulfilled brother.

Read acts 15 try to understand what happened in context. God bless you

 

[Danthemailman]

Bob, you need to focus on the book of Galatians. read it more and more again and again.

Are you SDA? The Law is fulfilled brother.

Read acts 15 try to understand what happened in context. God bless you

Bob's faith is listed as SDA and what I have noticed with SDA's is they claim to teach salvation by grace through faith, not of works, but then re-define this in a way that is contrary to the truth. Even though they may even try to deny this, SDA's teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

Here is an example below taken from another SDA:

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel?

It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

*Notice the subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the Gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9).

 

[Asaph George]

Bob's faith is listed as SDA and what I have noticed with SDA's is they claim to teach salvation by grace through faith, not of works, but then re-define this in a way that is contrary to the truth. Even though they may even try to deny this, SDA's teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

Here is an example below taken from another SDA:

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel?

It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

*Notice the subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the Gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9).

Hi Danthemailman, nice to meet you.

That does not surprise me. It shows I have already had discussions with SDA believers, they have many false doctrines. There is lack of comprehension of the New Testament, that is for sure.

They are stuck in a form of legalism, the type of legalism Paul spoke about in Galatians.

However, that doesn't mean I am on the Once Saved Always Saved and Calvinistic side which is another false doctrine. We are to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ which are His words He SPOKE in the new testament. These are the words of Eternal life.

If we are born again of the Spirit of Christ, we will follow and obey His voice. We will be His sheep. That doesn't mean we have eternal security and that we cannot lose it. If we turn our backs to God, we will lose it. This is clear from scriptures. This is what I clearly see in my Bible.

Those with an ear will hear.
May God bless you brother.