John 11:48 "....shall come the Romans and take away of us, place and nation"

mkgal1

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The kingdom representative was taken from the unfaithful Old Testament Congregation .... so that the New Testament Congregation will have the opportunity to produce more fruit, especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ!
Don't move on too fast.

And who is this kingdom rep that was taken that you're referring to? Jesus? But then you mention "especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ"?

**I just want to make sure I'm following YOU here and that we're tracking on the same line of thought.
 
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mkgal1

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The kingdom representative was taken from the unfaithful Old Testament Congregation so that the New Testament Congregation will have the opportunity to produce more fruit, especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ! However, Christ warned that the New Testament congregation, in the end, will have the rise of false prophets and christs that will bring her into apostasy and desolate just like the Jews of Old in days of Christ. That is what Christ's Olivet Discourse and Revelation was about - the fall of the New Testament congregation. Of course, only if one has a spiritual understanding of what Christ is saying. That is why Christ said, "whoso readeth, let him understand." It is not understanding by carnal or superficial reading the verse based on history book or current news but with the spirit of Christ.
Just saving this in order to get back to it later.
 
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TribulationSigns

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The truth is - what I don't "get" is your interpretation.

Indeed, blindness. Allow me explain:

Matthew 21:41-43
  • "They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
  • Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
How is all this any way plausibly ambiguous? God is speaking about Israel, Him as the cornerstone of their holy Temple that was rejected, and Him as the cornerstone of the Holy Temple, which is the church, its believers the stones built upon Christ and the Apostles. They are now the kingdom representative that was taken from Israel, they are part of the restoration, a house whose builder and maker is God, not construction workers with physical stones:

Ephesians 2:19-21
  • "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
  • And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
  • In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
  • In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
How is it possible NOT to see who the stones were, and who the stones are now of the Holy Temple of God. ...Blindness? Yes! A Holy Temple that fell in 33 A.D. with the rejection of its chief corner stone, and the Holy Temple was restored in THREE DAYS with the same foundation stone they rejected. Both the destruction of the Holy Temple and its rebuilding is symbolical. Is it not enough to understand that the Jews made the same mistake that the Premillennial, Dispensationalists, and Preterists whom Josephus apologists are making. Looking to the temporal buildings as fulfillment of prophesy of the destruction of the Temple and its rebuilding?

John 2:19-21
  • "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
  • Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
  • But he spake of the temple of his body."
These Jews, LIKE YOU, could only see the temporal building, when Christ was speaking about something infinitely more important. Their rejection and destruction of Him as the Temple building, and His restoration of it after three days. You see, the only true Israel, is in Christ Jesus. The only true rebuilding of the holy city is stones laid upon Christ Jesus as the Jerusalem from above. The only true building of the Holy Temple, are stones laid upon Him as their foundation. The prophecy of the City and Temple falling has nothing to do with a judgment upon a pile of literal stones some over 30 years after Christ died, but the sure judgment and punishment of people in 33 A.D. where not one stone of "that building"was left standing. Remember Christ said He rebuilt it in 3 days. It already took place! You don't see this? Blindness, perhaps? Lord Judges.

A New Covenant was made with Israel (Daniel 9:27) and the foundation stone rejected has still become head of the corner. Their Kingdom was taken from "the nation of Israel" and given to another as Christ prophesied! In three days! A Temple is built with stones laid upon the apostles and Christ, and it wasn't in 70A.D. with literal stones fell "proving" its destruction and rebuilding did not speak of that event. The "New Covenant with Israel" was ALREADY established in the Israel of God, the church. At the Cross. It's not a future event, but a past one.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
  • "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
  • Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
  • But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."
When did God start writing His law into Peter, James, John? Pentecost? They do not need to wait for the physical destruction of the city and temple because Christ already rebuilt the kingdom in three days after His death. So much for 70AD theory.
 
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mkgal1

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Don't move on too fast.

And who is this kingdom rep that was taken that you're referring to? Jesus? But then you mention "especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ"?

**I just want to make sure I'm following YOU here and that we're tracking on the same line of thought.

Indeed, blindness. Allow me explain:
I'd prefer if you'd first finish with your FIRST explanation you were working on, if you don't mind.

Who is this "kingdom rep that was taken"?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Don't move on too fast.

And who is this kingdom rep that was taken that you're referring to? Jesus? But then you mention "especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ"?

**I just want to make sure I'm following YOU here and that we're tracking on the same line of thought.

Try to read Scripture sometime, will you?

Matthew 21:38-44 KJV
[38] But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
[40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Who did you think took the kingdom from the Jews, His builders? Humm?
 
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mkgal1

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Try to read Scripture sometime, will you?
That's not going to help me one bit in understanding what YOUR posts say. YOU are the author of YOUR own posts and that's - maybe foolishly - what I'm trying to decipher (your words).
 
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mkgal1

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These Jews, LIKE YOU, could only see the temporal building, when Christ was speaking about something infinitely more important.
...... YOU are sliding over to the other extreme and ignoring what God had done with the "shadows" and the physical reality (and timing).

BTW - I don't ONLY see the temporal building.
 
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mkgal1

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TS said:
The kingdom representative was taken from the unfaithful Old Testament Congregation .... so that the New Testament Congregation will have the opportunity to produce more fruit, especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ!
And who is this kingdom rep that was taken that you're referring to? Jesus? But then you mention "especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ"?
I don't need Scripture. I already know what I believe - I'm interested in YOU backing up, in your own words, what you are suggesting here. This is YOUR interpretation....and only YOU can explain it. Go ahead......teach.....enlighten us unenlightened ones. Who is this kingdom rep that was taken from the OT congregation?
 
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TribulationSigns

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I don't need Scripture. I already know what I believe - I'm interested in YOU backing up, in your own words, what you are suggesting here. This is YOUR interpretation....and only YOU can explain it. Go ahead......teach.....enlighten us unenlightened ones.​

Oh yes, you do need Scripture. It is supposed to be your authority, agreed?

Only the Holy Spirit can teach and enlighten you. I am only a witness.

By the way, I did not interpret it. I read it and quote it to you. Word to Word. The problem is you refuse to answer the question or you are afraid that the answer contrasts your "belief." :)

Take your time and try to read the Scripture with context below and answer my valid question again:

Matthew 21:38-44 KJV
[38] But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
[40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Who did you think took the kingdom from the Jews, His builders? Humm? :)
 
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mkgal1

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It is supposed to be your authority, agreed?
Agreed. But that's not what I'm trying to understand right now. You seem to be avoiding the question. I've said a few times now - I know what I believe. It's YOUR interpretation that is the question.

You wrote (not the Bible wrote):
TribulationSigns said:
The kingdom representative was taken from the unfaithful Old Testament Congregation ....so that the New Testament Congregation will have the opportunity to produce more fruit, especially when it has the revelation of Jesus Christ!
Who is this kingdom rep that was taken from the OT congregation?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Agreed. But that's not what I'm trying to understand right now. You seem to be avoiding the question. I've said a few times now - I know what I believe. It's YOUR interpretation that is the question.

Cop out. :)

I have answered your silly questions with Scripture and rationally explained it. You offered "ZERO."

You asked me who took the kingdom representative from the Jews which I did quote you with Matthew 21:38-44, Word to Word, and asked you who did you think it was which you refuse to comply with an answer before trying to blame "the question" on my "interpretation." Obviously a cop out.
 
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mkgal1

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I quoted that the old testament congregation fell and in three days, Christ rebuilt it with New Testament congregation's inception on Pentecost

There is the only TRUE kingdom in Heaven that is made up of ALL True Elect from the Old and New Testament. Okay?

mkgal said:
Agreed. But that's not what I'm trying to understand right now. You seem to be avoiding the question. I've said a few times now - I know what I believe. It's YOUR interpretation that is the question.

Try to read Scripture sometime, will you?

Matthew 21:38-44 KJV
[38] But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
[40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

mkgal said:
Agreed. But that's not what I'm trying to understand right now. You seem to be avoiding the question. I've said a few times now - I know what I believe. It's YOUR interpretation that is the question.

Cop out. :)

I have answered your silly questions with Scripture and rationally explained it. You offered "ZERO."

You asked me who took the kingdom representative from the Jews which I did quote you with Matthew 21:38-44, Word to Word, and asked you who did you think it was which you refuse to comply with an answer before trying to blame "the question" on my "interpretation." Obviously a cop out.

That sure seems like the pot calling the kettle black. You first asserted your interpretation. Answering MY question with a question is a cop out (in my opinion).
I asked a simple and straight forward question. WHO is the kingdom rep that was taken from the Old Testament congregation (and YOU included believers as well in that congregation) ? In light of YOU saying that there is ONE true kingdom - old and new testament believers. Why would God remove the OT BELIEVERS away from His kingdom (or remove Himself - turn HIs back on - the OT faithful believers)? How is that a "rebuilt congregation" if there is ONE kingdom that includes old and new testament believers?
 
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TribulationSigns

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That sure seems like the pot calling the kettle black. You first asserted your interpretation. Answering MY question with a question is a cop out (in my opinion).

I asked a simple and straight forward question. WHO is the kingdom rep that was taken from the Old Testament congregation (and YOU included believers as well in that congregation) ? In light of YOU saying that there is ONE true kingdom - old and new testament believers. Why would God remove the OT BELIEVERS away from His kingdom (or remove Himself - turn HIs back on - the OT faithful believers)?​

My goodness.

When will you actually READ the Scripture to find that answer yourself which you obviously are not really good at!

Read the bold red:

Matthew 21:42-45 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Who thought Christ talked about them? Come on!

The earthly congregation makes up of BOTH faithful and people like chief priests and Pharisees. But Christ took the kingdom representative from "THEM," and you started to lose your mind because you thought that I was teaching that Christ also took the kingdom away from the Old Testament faithfuls. Sigh!

No, you don't get it. The chosen Elect of the Old Testament was already secured and are part of the heavenly kingdom which what matters the most. Yet, Israel represented God's Kingdom ON EARTH where the Elect once lived. Selah! It is the Earthly kingdom representative ON EARTH. The same way we are ruling with Christ RIGHT NOW in heaven through the church, our visible earthly kingdom on earth!

Revelation 5:9-10 KJV
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Note the past tense! We reign with Christ in this kingdom by bringing the Gospel to the world THROUGH the church which is a visible kingdom on Earth! Selah!

Now back to the Cross, because the unfaithful Jews, who were also part of the Old Testament earthly kingdom, have rejected Messiah the Prince, God has decided to take the kingdom representative from "THEM" and gave to the Church that includes the Gentiles this time. Selah!

That, however, does not mean that everyone who has gone into the churches (New Testament Kingdom Representative) for the past 2,000 years are automatically saved. There were always TWO GROUPS of PEOPLE in the earthly congregation, just like Israel was! One is True Elect, chosen by God, and another is professed believers, NOT, chosen by God.
 
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mkgal1

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And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Who thought Christ talked about them? Come on!
Okay - so the OT chief priests and Pharisees were removed as God's representatives. Is that what you're asserting?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Okay - so the OT chief priests and Pharisees were removed as God's representatives. Is that what you're asserting?

No, God did judge His Old Testament congregation and took the kingdom representative from them as a whole. You probably are thinking, "Hey, TS, what about the Old Testament Elect at that time, I thought you said they are protected." Yes! He did! I will explain...

First, I have mentioned on other thread the other day that Zechariah 14 was not about His Second Coming. It took place at the Cross. We need to compare Scripture with Scripture that to understand the SYMBOLISM we need to recognize that Jersualem, the holy city and bride of god, is representative of the congregation, the PEOPLE of God. In the Old Testament, that was the Jews. Zechariah 14 is in reference to THEIR SPIRITUAL CAPTIVITY (not Roman captivity), the apostasy that had gripped that congregation, and this WARFARE in His Congregation.

Matthew 11:12 KJV
[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The kingdom of Heaven is the CONGREGATION of Israel on earth. It is not Kingdom of Heaven being attacked by Romans armies, not every physical nation in the world, and not at the end times in His second advent, but these "nations" (unbelievers) were defeated by the Lord and by His army (messengers) in their testimony. It was a spiritual war between Christ and his messengers (apostles and faithful) and Satan and his messengers (Jewish leaders, Pharisees, and their followers):

Revelation 12:7-9 KJV
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

It is Satan's messengers who also happen to be part of God's congregation will come against Christ and destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Daniel 9:26 KJV
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Indeed the people of the Prince, Jews, under the influence of Satan, did destroy the city and sanctuary, and consequently, the kingdom was taken from them and given to another. These were the nations that came against Jerusalem, as Christ is this Prince, was delivered to the Gentiles for crucifixion by His own people!

This language of delivering to the Gentiles is not coincidental, as it illustrates His people were working as Gentiles against their own Prince. Gentiles simply mean anyone not a Jew, an alien or foreigner from Israel. Anyone who is not the true Jews or children of God are spiritually Gentiles (Revelation 3:9) and at war in Jerusalem.

Revelation 3:9 KJV
[9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

It does NOT matter if you say you are a Jew by bloodline, you are not one in God's eyes. Period! There was no physical war going on in Jerusalem when Christ came, so why do you think God prophesied Christ's coming to end Jerusalem's warfare and to bring comfort to her?

Isaiah 40:1-2 KJV
[1] Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
[2] Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.

These are questions that many teachers ignore because it illustrates vividly that the Lord spoke this way. While they want to keep holding to an idea that understanding city spiritually is of men rather than of God. But the Biblical fact is, she indeed was at war, but not warfare as the world defines it, but as God's word does. Not by all the literal/physical nations battling against her as the world defines it, but as God does! It is the war between two different generations or families, one the messengers and children of Satan and the other the messengers or children of God. Even as Revelation 12 also depicts. The end result was that Christ came to the mount of Olives (signifying the anointed kingdom), came to Jerusalem as King, freed the children held in captivity, in the bondage of Satan and his minions, and judged those who fought against Him. Not in worldly Premillennialists or Preterist terms, but spiritual.

Zechariah 12:89
  • "In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
  • And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
  • And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
Well, "in that day" did not occur in 70AD! It was at the Cross! The only real question is when Christ poured out His Spirit of grace upon the house of David (Pentecost), how was Jerusalem under siege in by all the nations, and how did God seek to destroy all the nations that came against Jerusalem? When you answer that question honestly, you know that this never spoke of a physical/literal war or nations. Not even 70AD. The Lord did defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem and did destroy the nations that came up against her and He did pour out His spirit upon the house of David, and they did look upon Him whom they had pierced. Could it be any more clearer it was already Done! Long before your 70AD theory! Christ accomplished this at the cross. And they did mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, as also confirmed! I did not say that. John wrote:

John 19:36-37
  • "For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
  • And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."
When did that happen? At the Cross, of course! Not 70AD. It's not scripture yet to be fulfilled in your doctrine, it's Scripture already fulfilled. We just need to take God's word as authoritative, rather than listen to the self-serving denials of men snared in Preterism/Premillennial/Judaism/Zionism.

You may wonder, what happened to the Old Testament faithfuls when the Lord took away the Kingdom Representative away from their congregation.

Zechariah 14:3 KJV
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

The real question is "HOW" did the Lord fight FOR the people of Jerusalem? Was it a physical battle among His Congregation with physical armies setting Israel free from her physical enemies armies? Or Did He fight for them SPIRITUALLY, free them SPIRITUALLY, and restore them SPIRITUALLY? When God talks about going forth fighting against the nations/Gentiles to HELP Jersualem who is besieged, He is illustrating that there was a battle going on in His congregation (represented by Jesualem) and He would judge those that have forced His people into...spiritual captivity.

Revelation 12:7-11 KJV
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

When was the great accuser cast down and salvation and the strength of His Kingdom went forth? All the victory of His messengers accomplished strictly by THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB and THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY! Not some physical stones falling in 70AD. Not a battle of guns and missiles with Russia. But IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN on EARTH. Right here in the Old Testament Congregation when it fell and being restored by Christ...in three days with His Resurrection!

Think about for a moment with Egypt. When God says "as when" (or like) He fought in the day of battle, that is a reference to the deliverance of the children of Israel from Egypt at the red sea when it was parted to make a way that His children could ESCAPE their bondage. Same portrait in Zechariah 14, of the mountain cleaving in half and a great valley as a way of ESCAPE for His faithful people of the Old Testament, Selah! It is the portrait of the deliverance of His Congregation!

Exodus 14:12-14 KJV
[12] Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.
[13] And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
[14] The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

See? And Indeed the Lord DID fight for them and delivered them. Not in a premillennial physical army battle, but God fought for them in that "spiritual" battle that made a way for them to enter into the promised land. This deliverance from Egypt PREFIGURES Christ's deliverance of Isarel from spiritual bondage in Egypt that was overcome at the CROSS! In this SAME WAY, Zechariah predicts the coming of Christ as when the LORD WILL FIGHT FOR HIS FAITHFUL, just as He fought in the day of battle! It is SPIRITUAL warfare, a SPIRITUAL ending of it, and a SPIRITUAL peace and safety established by the Deliverer Himself with Grace! That can only mean that the battle against those nations the prophecy of Zechariah 14 says the Lord will fight for them, is also a spiritual battle. It was very destructive for the Old Testament Congregation, but He also made it a way for His faithful to escape into the New Testament congregation! Selah!

Zechariah 14:3-5 KJV
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[5] And
ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The mount of Olivers represents the congregation of Israel. In this case, the Old Testament congregation. The cleaving and splitting of the mountain signify the judgment of God upon this congregation. In other words, the Old Testament Congregation fell. The Lord created a great valley for His True faithful to escape the judgment into...guess where? New Testament Congregation, spiritually speaking. Just the Lord had the sea parted for the Jews back in days of Egypt. In other words, the TRUE congregation of Israel CONTINUED from Old into the New, this time, with the temple that Christ rebuilt where He is now a Chief Cornerstone of that building! All of this already took place at Cross/Pentecost. Not 70AD. Satan has been cast out of God's congregation with the fall of Old Testament Congregation and bound Him so He could rebuild His congregation and this time includes the Gentiles. Satan has been bound (restrained) from frustrating God's New Testament congregation until God first finished sealing His chosen Elect through the testimony of two Witnesses for 1,260 symoblic days (whole New Testament period). Once all Israel shall be saved (Rev 7, Romans 11:26) Satan will be loosened for "a short season" to gather His army again to attack the New Testament congregation. Do you even notice what is going on with the congregations spiritually all over the world lately while the professed Christians are busy looking for literal signs or fulfillment they thought only applies to national Israel or Jerusalem like the foolish virgins of Matthew 25, humm?

Oh well, only those have spiritual eyes to see and ear to hear!

Selah!
 
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mkgal1

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Back to the OP:

I thought the verse mentioned in John 11 should be looked at more closely, especially since the word "Roman/s" is used in only this 1 verse of the Gospels, John 11:48.
Discuss.................

Quoting from linked blog post:
John 2:12-22 provides a telling example. When confronted by the ruling elite of Jerusalem, who demand to know by what authority he claimed to cleanse the Temple, Jesus enigmatically says that if the great building is destroyed, he “will raise it again in three days” (v.19). The Fourth Evangelist, in an editorial aside, informs us that Jesus was actually referring to his own body – which means that the “raising” of which he spoke likely denoted his own resurrection (v.21). For many Jews in Jesus’ day, the Temple was, “…the sacred precinct…located at the cosmic centre of the universe, at the place where heaven and earth converge and thus from where God’s control over the universe is effected” (Carol Meyers). It was the central symbol in Israel’s national life, representing in stone and wood Yahweh’s decision to dwell specially with his people. The Temple was, in other words, the key identifying marker for the great swathe of first-century Jews – a sign, in other words, of Israel’s unique relationship with the creator God.

And yet here was Jesus prophesying the Temple’s destruction (see John 11:48; cf. Mark 11:12-21; Luke 19:41-44). In his riddling reply to the Jewish elite, he was claiming that the era of the Temple was coming to a (disastrous) end; all that it stood for, all that it symbolised, was now going to be fulfilled in his resurrection body. Its inevitable dissolution was also the prelude to the formation of a new, superior, “house of God”. For John, the raising of Jesus signalled the epochal “transfer” of the functions of the Temple to him. He would be the site of God’s special indwelling presence (cf. John 1:14); he would function as the unique meeting place between God and his people, and the convergence between heaven and earth (cf. John 1:51). God’s people would now be defined by its relationship to Jesus. This is of a piece with John’s Temple theology, which he has woven into segments of Jesus’ farewell discourse. His references to Father and Son making their home in the believer (14:23), and the mutually indwelling relationships that his followers will enjoy with the Godhead (17:23, 26) suggest that the redeemed community would operate (in a derivative manner) as the new dwelling site of God’s glory – glory that had been supremely revealed in the resurrected Jesus. This corresponds closely to what Paul says in his first letter to the Corinthian church. NT scholar, James Dunn, comments that it is “striking” the way Paul likens the church to God’s house, which is founded upon Jesus himself (1 Cor 3:16-17). No longer a structure composed of stone and wood, the true Temple is formed out of the mass of those men and women who are “in” Christ, having willingly submitted themselves to him. ~ N T Wright | A Bagful of insights
 
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mkgal1

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Some commentaries I pulled up on StudyLight:


Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

And the Romans shall come - They were then subject to the Romans - tributary and dependent. Whatever privileges they had they held at the will of the Roman emperor. They believed, or feigned to believe, that Jesus was intending to set up a temporal kingdom. As he claimed to be the Messiah, so they supposed, of course, that he designed to be a temporal prince, and they professed to believe that this claim was, in fact, hostility to the Roman emperor. They supposed that it would involve the nation in war if he was not arrested, and that the effect would be that they would be vanquished and destroyed. It was on this charge that they at last arraigned him before Pilate, Luke 23:2-3.

Will take away - This expression means to destroy, to ruin, to overthrow, Luke 8:12; Acts 6:13-14.

Our place - This probably refers to the temple, Acts 6:13-14. It was called “the place” by way of eminence, as being the chief or principal place on earth - being the seat of the special worship of God. This place was utterly destroyed by the Romans. See the notes at Matthew 24.
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Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.

The testimony of Jesus' enemies in this place is invaluable, for it declares the resurrection of Lazarus to have been an authentic event and one capable of convincing any unbiased person that Jesus was the Christ. Their motivation in killing Jesus is spelled out perfectly. They were afraid of losing their position of power and wealth, and, with characteristic blindness, identifying themselves as "the nation." Ironically, their murder of the Christ did not prevent the Romans from taking away "both their place and nation" in 70 A.D. when the armies of Vespasian and Titus sacked and destroyed the city.
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John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
If we let him thus alone,.... Going about from place to place, teaching the people, and doing such miracles:

all men will believe on him; the whole nation will receive him as the Messiah, and proclaim him their king, and yield a cheerful obedience to all his commands:

the Romans will come; against us, with their powerful armies; interpreting the setting him up as Messiah, to be an instance of rebellion against Caesar, and his government:

and take away both our place and nation; that is, will destroy the temple, their holy place, the place of their religion and worship; and their city, the place of their habitation, and lay waste their country; and take away from them that little share of power and government they had, and strip them both of their civil and religious privileges: the Persic version renders it, "they will take away our place, and make a decree against our religion". ~ John 11:48 -
 
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