Joel's End Time Prophesies

[DavidPT]

When do these people come out of the nations, and who are they? Are you claiming they are the church? And the church coming out of the nations is after the cataclysmic solar event that will destroy most of the population of the middle east?

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.


Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Your scenario of the church, of over a billion believers, replacing the current population over there in tiny Israel and re-populating it into a new Christian nation you call Beulah, does not fit, Keras, and cannot fit.

When you really think about it, the fact replacement theology is brought up from time to time, Keras is taking that to a whole new level via his interpretations. If his interpretations are not a good example of replacement theology, I don't what is? If anyone is promoting replacement theology in this forum, he would be the number one suspect on the list.

 

[Douggg]

Even in the OT not everything needs to be understood in the literal sense every time. If one takes Genesis 6 in the literal sense, that it involved fallen angels having sex with earth women then producing literal demonic offspring, this means that nothing in Genesis 6 even involves any of the male earthlings living at the time. It would mean God was not angry with them as well. He was only angry with the fallen angels, the earth women that mated with them, and the offspring they produced, yet, God also destroyed all male earthlings in the flood as well.

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


This verse right here proves that the verse that proceded it, it's not to be taken in the literal sense. Verse 5 is in regards to verse 4. In verse 5 man is meaning mankind, both male and female combined, yet, verse 4 if taken in the literal sense, is not even involving the male species of mankind, but is only involving the female species of mankind.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


And the same with verse 3. Man is meaning mankind, both male and female combined. And if one takes the preceding verse in the literal sense, that verse is not even pertaining to mankind as a whole, but is only pertaining to the female species.

David, there is the line of thought that the entire human race had been compromised spread by the DNA altering results of the wicked angels, except for Noah.

 

[DavidPT]

David, there is the line of thought that the entire human race had been compromised spread by the DNA altering results of the wicked angels, except for Noah.

I am aware of that theory but don't exactly buy it.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Once again man is meaning mankind as a whole, both male and female. In verse 5 God made this observation in regards to mankind as a whole--And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth. With that in mind let's look at verse 4. Since mankind consists of both male and female, what wickedness in the earth does God see the male portion of mankind doing in verse 4? Per your interpretation, does this part involve the male portion of mankind---when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown?

Probably not, right? Why then did God even bother mentioning mankind as a whole in verse 5 if it's not even meaning mankind as a whole if your interpretation is correct?

 

[Douggg]

I am aware of that theory but don't exactly buy it.

David, in the times of the dinosaurs, not only were many creatures at the time giants, but many of them had a violent nature. Do you think God created them that way? I don't. imo, the rebellious angels led by Satan had perverted what God had created, by altering the makeup of the animals in some fashion. Which God apparently destroyed all life on earth of that primordial world. And that world became formless and void, which the re-make is our present earth.

I am of the opinion that altering DNA (I am using that term in a blanket fashion, lacking knowledge of the actual process) by Satan and his angels in the world of the dinosaurs, devised similar strategy in their destructive plan of the human race, man being made in the image of God, I think the giants and the bent on evil had a previous precedence.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I agree

I guess I need to reconsider my view then.

and Last Days in context of the apostles' time is on my chart of the structure of the Olivet discourse and Luke 21 parallel.

I disagree with most of your chart, as is always the case with your charts. But, let's just enjoy the fact that we at least agree on something.

 

[keras]

When do these people come out of the nations, and who are they? Are you claiming they are the church? And the church coming out of the nations is after the cataclysmic solar event that will destroy most of the population of the middle east?

That is the correct scenario.
Not exclusively the Church, but every faithful believer. will travel to and live in all of the holy Land. Many prophesies prove it: Isaiah 35, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 31, Zechariah 8:1-8, Romans 9:24-26, +
The holy Land will be brought back from ruin, as my REB correctly puts it.

Tiny Israel, you say? The holy Land is huge; from the Nile to the Euphrates/

 

[keras]

When you really think about it, the fact replacement theology is brought up from time to time, Keras is taking that to a whole new level via his interpretations. If his interpretations are not a good example of replacement theology, I don't what is? If anyone is promoting replacement theology in this forum, he would be the number one suspect on the list.

This accusation is made from ignorance.
NO ONE is 'replaced'.
We Christians are grafted into the tree of life, that is: Jesus.
The Tree that the Jews were cut off from and can also be grafted back into; IF they accept Jesus.
Read and understand Romans 11:17-24

 

[DavidPT]

This accusation is made from ignorance.
NO ONE is 'replaced'.
We Christians are grafted into the tree of life, that is: Jesus.
The Tree that the Jews were cut off from and can also be grafted back into; IF they accept Jesus.
Read and understand Romans 11:17-24

We're discussing Ezekiel 38-39, though, aren't we? Isn't that what Douggg was inquiring about when I entered the discussion?

There is no one in Ezekiel 38-39 being replaced with someone else. IOW, no one is being evicted and that new tenants are taking their place. Those chapters involve the portion of Israel that God has been hiding His face from. It is involving them the entire two chapters and is still involving them at the end of ch 39, except at the end God is no longer hiding His face from them. Meaning after He executes his judgment on Gog and his multitude. Before He executes that judgment, and even after they are already back in the land dwelling safely, God is still hiding His face from them in the meantime. Which presently means, since God is yet to execute His judgment on Gog and his multitude, He is still, to this day, hiding His face from the house of Israel meant in those two chapters.

Unless you fit the profile of someone that God is still currently hiding His face from, you don't fit the house of Israel meant in those two chapters. It's not like it is a bad thing if God isn't hiding His face from someone. Why can't you just be content with that?

 

[Marilyn C]

What then does that they (certain of the angels) kept not their first estate - that God placed them in chains in darkness - refer to? If they did not co-habitate among humans?

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

That refers to their `first estate,` the angelic realm where they were cast of, the third heaven.

 

[keras]

We're discussing Ezekiel 38-39, though, aren't we? Isn't that what Douggg was inquiring about when I entered the discussion?

There is no one in Ezekiel 38-39 being replaced with someone else. IOW, no one is being evicted and that new tenants are taking their place. Those chapters involve the portion of Israel that God has been hiding His face from. It is involving them the entire two chapters and is still involving them at the end of ch 39, except at the end God is no longer hiding His face from them. Meaning after He executes his judgment on Gog and his multitude. Before He executes that judgment, and even after they are already back in the land dwelling safely, God is still hiding His face from them in the meantime. Which presently means, since God is yet to execute His judgment on Gog and his multitude, He is still, to this day, hiding His face from the house of Israel meant in those two chapters.

Unless you fit the profile of someone that God is still currently hiding His face from, you don't fit the house of Israel meant in those two chapters. It's not like it is a bad thing if God isn't hiding His face from someone. Why can't you just be content with that?

Actually this thread is about Joel's prophesies.
God is 'hiding His face' [not yet revealed] from the House of Israel. Who are not the House of Judah; the Jews.
The Jews are rejected and the Kingdom has been taken from them. Matthew 21:43

The great awakening and the restoration of the true Israelites of God, namely every faithful Christian person, will happen soon after the Lord has cleared and cleansed all of the holy Land. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
As 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 says;....He will reveal Himself to His own.

It is them- us; who will be living in the holy Land, when G/M attacks.

 

[Douggg]

That refers to their `first estate,` the angelic realm where they were cast of, the third heaven.

Marilyn, it is not implying that they were placed in chains because they were cast out of the third heaven, but because they did not conduct themselves in their original role (their first estate) , and did something forbidden for them.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, it is not implying that they were placed in chains because they were cast out of the third heaven, but because they did not conduct themselves in their original role (their first estate) , and did something forbidden for them.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Douggg,

I know what you are suggesting however that is not correct. The fallen angels had their first-estate in the third heaven. The `chains` are the limitations of God upon them and the eventual descent to the lake of fire. Those fallen angels do NOT have free reign, for they are subject to God. His word keeps them limited while God is working out His purposes. In God`s time He will bring them down, to the earth, then down to the pit, then down to the lake of fire. (Ez. 14: 15)

 

[Douggg]

I know what you are suggesting however that is not correct. The fallen angels had their first-estate in the third heaven. The `chains` are the limitations of God upon them and the eventual descent to the lake of fire. Those fallen angels do NOT have free reign, for they are subject to God. His word keeps them limited while God is working out His purposes. In God`s time He will bring them down, to the earth, then down to the pit, then down to the lake of fire. (Ez. 14: 15)

Marilyn, the ones currently held in chains in darkness are a specific group of fallen angels.

I agree that the fallen angels do not have free reign to do whatever they want.

 

[Douggg]

Actually this thread is about Joel's prophesies.
God is 'hiding His face' [not yet revealed] from the House of Israel. Who are not the House of Judah; the Jews.
The Jews are rejected and the Kingdom has been taken from them. Matthew 21:43

In Ezekiel 39:25, it is the whole house of Israel, i.e. all twelve tribes.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

In Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[keras]

In Ezekiel 39:25, it is the whole house of Israel, i.e. all twelve tribes.

Sure, some from the House of Judah, at least 24,000, will join with their brethren. Jeremiah 50:4-5

Note; that in Ezekiel 20:34-38, the rebels and the Jesus rejecters will not be allowed to enter the Promised Land.
In fact this Prophetic truth is sufficient proof on its own to prove how it will be God's faithful Christian peoples who will occupy the holy Land in the end times.
We will be there when Gog attacks , we are there when the Anti-Christ makes a 7 year treaty of peace with us and 3 1/2 years later, when he conquers us. Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

The failure of most people to see these truths of God Plan for His people, the true Israelites of God, is due to their beliefs in false theories and doctrines.

 

[eclipsenow]

Note; that in Ezekiel 20:34-38, the rebels and the Jesus rejecters will not be allowed to enter the Promised Land.

Um, no! It's not actually about the future. It's not really about the last 2000 years. This really is about the past! This is about Exile.

34 I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered – with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath. 35 I will bring you into the wilderness of the nations and there, face to face, I will execute judgment upon you. 36 As I judged your ancestors in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will judge you, declares the Sovereign Lord. 37 I will take note of you as you pass under my rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant. 38 I will purge you of those who revolt and rebel against me. Although I will bring them out of the land where they are living, yet they will not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.
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As the Reformation Study Bible notes explain:-

Ezek 20:32–38
20:32–38 The desire to be like the surrounding nations (v. 32) reflects 1 Sam. 8:20; the people had rejected God (1 Sam. 8:7, 8). But just as God would not abandon earlier generations of His chosen people, so now He promises a new exodus and a return to the wilderness experience (vv. 33–35). Just as only the faithful and obedient from those in the wilderness generation crossed into the land (Num. 14:30, 38), so too God would again purge the nation to bring a faithful people into the land (vv. 36–38).
Ezek 20:32–38 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway
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Or, as the Phd in Jewish symbolism over at the Bible Project explains (with nearly 1.3 million views):-

Don't you think it's time you deleted your website until you figure out how to read the Old Testament? How many young people might get attracted by your crazy predictions, only to be utterly disillusioned with Christianity itself when nothing you say happens?