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Joel's End Time Prophesies

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The figs on the tree represents Jerusalem, 1967 back in the hands of the Jews. Israel the fig tree, a nation again in the land in one day, May 14, 1948.

    The other trees are - the nations in Ezekiel 38 making up Gog/Magog are in place - and the nations in unity making up the end times Roman Empire, the EU.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hosea 9
    10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

    Hosea describes the first ripe figs in the fig tree as "your fathers" who "went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved."

    So "your fathers" who "went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved" is Israel?

    The fig tree does not appear in Jeremiah 24.
     
  3. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no mention in Matthew 24 or Luke 21 of "the figs on the tree".

    There is no mention anywhere in Scripture of "Israel the fig tree".

    The nations in Ezekiel 38 did not shoot forth in 1948.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    putting forth leaves is the spring process of coming out of dormancy, flowering, which induces pollination, which the flowers become fruit (on a fruit tree, like a fig tree).

    Joel 1:7 is a reference to Israel being the fig tree. The fruit on the fig tree is Jerusalem, as Jesus coming from Bethany to Jerusalem in Mark 11:12-14 that last Passover week, cursed the fig tree beside the road for having no fruit. It had leaves, but no fruit, because Passover is in the spring, not summer.

    "shoot forth" in the parable means that they become prominent as nations in the latter days, latter years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks for confirming my observations.
     
  6. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Watching and Praying Always

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    Not the tree, but the figs.
    and yes, "your fathers" being figs coming off the fig tree. Jacob being the trunk, the twelve tribes the branches, and each individual person is like a fig from that tree. The Nation is the tree, the people are its figs.

    Similarly, it is represented as a grapevine. with the clusters on the vine being people. The true vine is Jesus.
     
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Your fathers" were those who "went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved".

    No mention of "Jacob".

    No mention of "the trunk".

    No mention of "twelve tribes".

    No mention of "branches".

    No mention of "each individual person", only of "your fathers" who "went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved".

    No mention of "the people", only of "your fathers" who "went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved".

    No mention of any connection between Israel and a fig tree.
     
  8. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Watching and Praying Always

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    You really have trouble with reading in context it seems.

    Let's actually notice punctuation in the verse, yeah?

    Note the punctuation, that statement is complete, the next part is not invalidating that first statement.
    God is saying He found Israel to be like fruits at first. then the fruits went bad.
    The Israelites He brought out of Egypt was like the first harvest, and it is a picture of the last harvest, some people refer to Jesus' second coming as a "second exodus"
    Jesus often spoke in terms of agriculture in many parables. The wheat and the tares to represent the separation of people at the end of the world, the workers in the vineyard, the sower, the mustard seed, etc.. and God the Father did the same in the old testament.
     
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have trouble reading what in Scripture is not written.

    God initially saw Israel as grapes, but then as figs which degenerated into abominable apostasy and idolatry. There is no depiction of Israel as a fig tree. That is an interpretive fig-ment.

    What Scripture refers to Jesus' second coming as a "second exodus"?

    Hosea 9:10 does not depict Israel as a fig tree.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  10. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Watching and Praying Always

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    Alright, since you're so wise and understanding, you explain the parable of the fig tree.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The Bible gives wisdom and understanding:
    Isaiah 5:4 The vineyard of the Lord is Israel and the people of Judah are the plant [tree] He delighted in......
    Jeremiah 24:1-10 ....I count the exiles of Judah who went to Babylon as good figs.......those who remained in the Land are the bad figs, not fit for anything.

    The grapevine represents the House of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes, and the fig tree represents the House of Judah, the 2 Southern tribes.
    Jesus cursed the fig tree and said it would never bear fruit.
    He prophesied that they would again bud and come into leaf, as they have now; as the Jewish State of Israel. But they fail to bear fruit; the fruit of the Spirit.
    Jesus again prophesied that the Kingdom was taken from Judah and given to a people who would bear the proper fruit; the faithful Christian peoples. Matthew 21:43

    Soon; the Lord will send fire upon Judah and remove them from the holy Land. Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:1-14
     
  12. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Watching and Praying Always

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    I agree with you but jgr is claiming we're wrong and he knows better.
    so I'm asking what wisdom he has to share.

    Weird, KJV has that as Isaiah 5:7 btw.
    But that's a good one to know too, thank you for bringing that one up.
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    I believe that the very existence of the State of Israel today, surely places us in the Latter Days. Therefore, correct understanding of the end times should be the aim of every Christian believer.

    We need to not be taken unawares of coming world changing events. Those Christians who believe in a ‘rapture to heaven’, may find themselves unprepared to face severe Tribulation. The Lord has called us to be His co-workers, so we must know what lies before us, to work diligently toward the furtherance of His Kingdom. Remember that Jesus rebuked the people of His day, for not being able or willing to discern the signs of the prophetic times in which they lived.

    Since 1948, we have seen an amazing restoration of the Jewish people into a portion of the Land.

    Joel 3:1 When the time comes, I will reverse the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.
    God says; in that time period, certain things will occur. The next prophetic event will be an attack on the Jewish State of Israel by the Islamic peoples, with the support of many other nations and entities. The Lord’s fiery judgement on them will result in the destruction and depopulation of most of the Middle East. Jeremiah 12:14, Psalms 83:1-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Micah 4:11-12, Zephaniah 1:14-18

    Joel 3:2-3 I shall gather the nations into the valley of Jehoshaphat [the Lord Judges] I will judge them on behalf of My people, whom they scattered among the nations.
    This event is not at the Return of Jesus, as it is described in Rev. 19:11-21 and Zechariah 14:3-4

    Joel 3:4-8 What are you to Me, Israel’s neighbors? Do you want vengeance? I will make your deeds recoil onto your own heads. You have harmed Judah and stolen their treasures. I will rouse them and bring them home; your own people will be enslaved.

    Joel 3:9-17 Proclaim war among the nations! Prepare your weapons, let the weakest say they are strong. The nations all around will hear the call and gather for judgement. The harvest is ripe- wield the knife, tread the grapes. [Rev. 14:17-20] The Day of the Lords vengeance is at hand, in the place of Decision. But the Lord is a refuge for His people, a defense for Israel. By this you will know that I am the Lord your God. Jerusalem will be holy.

    Joel 3:18-21 When that day comes, there will be food and water in plenty in the Land. Egypt and Edom will become desolate wastes because of the violence they did to Judah, but the Land of Israel will be inhabited forever. I shall avenge their blood and the Lord will dwell in Zion.

    For the universal Church of Jesus Christ and all peoples, it is time to realize that we are now at the edge of cataclysmic events. The obvious determination and preparedness of Israel’s enemies is so great, that there is no defense adequate to cope with their attack. It will require divine intervention to avoid the devastation of a worldwide nuclear exchange.
    The Lord’s terrible Day of wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis will be triggered by this attack and will result in the virtual depopulation of all the holy land. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 2:8-9, Obadiah 1-21

    This event will be the fulfilment of Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7, +
    The assurances given concerning the protection of the faithful Christians, if not kept, would render His Word unreliable, and His character flawed. God’s promises never fail, He will protect His people, those who trust in Him, during His Day of vengeance and wrath against His enemies. Isaiah 43:2, Isaiah 41:13, Psalms 91


    It should be clear to anyone that a secular State of Israel is not God’s highest ambition for His people. Currently the Jews only occupy a small portion of Greater Israel and are beset by problems, water shortages, religious schisms and are threatened on all sides. Many, many prophecies predict a remarkable future greatness for ALL the tribes of Israel. Most Bible scholars relegate these predictions to the Millennium, as they cannot see any earlier fulfilment.
    They have often been influenced by the well entrenched “rapture to heaven” view and a belief that wrongly thinks the Israel of God is separate from the Church of born again believers.

    But when thought is given to what so clearly must happen before Jesus Returns, then wonderful is the prospect of a righteous nation, living in peace and security in the Promised Land – after the whole area is cleared and cleansed by this great Day of the Lord’s vengeance. Deuteronomy 32:34-35
     
  14. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    Not so fast! I hear your confusion - as I was confused when I first heard the "Boltian" (named after Peter Bolt) view of the Olivet Discourse. I always assumed it was about Judgement Day - but the stuff about THAT temple, THAT generation, and people DOING something about the end of the world - like running to the hills - never sat right with me. Like, you can't run away from the return of Jesus and Judgement Day! So it seems there are a few questions at play here. As Gospel Coalition says:-

    “The Olivet Discourse” in Matthew 24 might be the most difficult passage in the Gospel of Matthew to interpret correctly. Some of the difficulty stems from the fact that the disciples ask a question that is far more complex than they realize: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (Matt. 24:3)

    Jesus had just foretold the destruction of the temple. The disciples couldn’t have imagined anything more catastrophic or apocalyptic than that, and therefore they assumed that this event would herald the end of the age and the dawning of the kingdom of God.

    Jesus, however, knew better, and therefore responded as if they were asking two questions rather than one. He knew that the sack of Jerusalem in AD 70 would be catastrophic—but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. Nor would it immediately usher in the fully consummated kingdom of God.

    Therein lies the interpretive challenge. The two events are related – just not in the way that the disciples had assumed. In essence, the near calamity serves as a lens for anticipating the far calamity. The disciples assumed that Jerusalem’s destruction would precipitate the great calamity, whereas Jesus understood that it merely anticipated the great calamity. Once that complexity is acknowledged, the sermon begins to yield its treasures.
    Making Sense of the Olivet Discourse - The Gospel Coalition | Canada

    Again, I'm not a Full Preterist but Partial Preterist. It's fulfilled in Eschatological Tension - the now and not yet nature of the Kingdom of God as we wait for his return. Jesus WILL return - we know that from other parts of the New Testament. But I'm still not sure how much of the Olivet Discourse discusses Judgement Day - IF any of Olivet does!

    There seems to be 2 views in the Reformed Evangelical camp. This next piece is not to prove anything, but just outline the views:-
    Reformed Amil: Two questions are answered - one about THAT temple being destroyed in THAT generation within 40 years. This seems to be the view of the Reformed and IVP commentaries on Biblegateway.

    Boltian Amil: (By Dr Peter Bolt of Moore Theological College - the Sydney Anglicans):
    ONE question is answered - about the end of THAT temple and the whole sacrificial system because of Jesus death and resurrection - and that the apocalyptic language is all about the gospel. EG: Jesus on the clouds of heaven is Coming TO the Ancient of Days in victory after ascending, and the angels = messengers going out to collect the elect are in fact the Apostles declaring the gospel. Other verses that back this reading of the weird apocalyptic language of the heavens shaken and causing grief and concern on earth are Acts 2 where Peter explains Pentecost in the language of Joel. The gospel is declared in the face of the turmoil of this world - and reminds people that we do not have forever.

    Not at all - I'm not a gnostic influenced by Western pop-culture like the Simpsons. No - a full resurrection body for me please! As I said, I believe in the Return of the Lord on Judgement Day and the resurrection of the dead from OTHER parts of the New Testament. I'm just not sure which of the Amil 'masts' I'm nailing my colours to above.

    This discussion over the last few weeks has made me uncomfortable with my former more Boltian position on the Olivet Discourse - and I have a LOT more reading to do before I'm convinced either way.
     
  15. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Watching and Praying Always

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    Not even close.
    You don't understand the difference between Tribulation, and God's Wrath.
    You can't run away from God's Wrath, you're right.
    But you can flee and escape the Great Tribulation.
    Tribulation is persecution, not the blood turning to water or hailstones the weight of a talent or asteroid impacts or other things that take place during God's wrath.
    Tribulation is actions taken by men against the faithful.
    the first 5 seals of Revelation are all actions by men.
    the first seal is the Antichrist and his conquest by deception and diplomacy. This is acts of men/satan, God has just allowed it after holding back the worst of it before, the undoing seals is God removing protections, rather than directly causing it, it's allowing something to happen that He once restrained.
    the second seal is men inciting violence against each other, it's not God causing the violence, it's the violence in our hearts that has always been there but was restrained, now set free.
    the third seal is often misinterpreted primarily as a supernatural famine. That is not the case. The thing focused on in the 3rd seal is not the scarcity of food, it's the price of food. The famine is manufactured, man caused, planned. The symbol is also scales, doing with commerce and economy, not any farming implement. The eocnomy collapses due to hyperinflation. Take a look at the current inflation due to Covid 19 and more specifically, due to the government's attempts to stabilize the economy by printing money and directly providing relief, and the government's role in reducing supply by closing things down. It's not an act of God that has caused the increased prices, it's the actions of men in power, men with an agenda.
    The 4th seal is death from these causes, from war, from famine, and from pestilence. Yeah, I know, "beasts of the earth" as well, but you know what beast represents in Revelation almost all of the time? World Empires. The closest approximation I have of what the 4th seal is? A World War. That's the beasts of the earth killing 2 billion people. Nuclear War would certainly do that. But ultimately.. an act of men. After that, is a power vacuum, since the world powers will be in no condition to keep being the world powers. Who fills that vacuum? THE beast.
    The 5th seal, is the Great Tribulation, persecution and beheadings, all of it caused by men.

    It's not until the sixth seal, showing the signs given in Matthew 24, that God is directly acting, after He'd just pulled back protections and let man fulfill their own lusts that led them to their own destruction. Now we get supernatural, and now is the return of Christ. It is at the 6th seal, that it's declared that God's wrath has come, and men try to hide in bunkers and caves from it, but it won't do them good.

    So what Jesus told people to flee, was the 5th seal.
    Amillennialism is ultimately, a coping mechanism that comes from not being able to believe that God can literally fulfill prophecy.
    I know someone on this very forum who converted to amillennialism, as a result of being disappointed by the rapture not happening in the year 2000. He'd believed a date-setter, got disappointed, and has since been using amillennialism to cope with disbelief.
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As the buddings of the fig tree and all of the trees were signs of forthcoming change in the seasons, so the descriptions given by Jesus were signs presaging the forthcoming changes to national Israel and the OT economy.

    To wit, the judgment and destruction of national Israel, and the eclipse of the OT by the NT.

    Verifiable historical fulfillments of Matthew 24.

    The author (Ralph Woodrow) has additional material, not included here, demonstrating historical fulfillment up to and including Matthew 24:28. Some or all of it is available online e.g. google "ralph woodrow great tribulation" for related detail re. Matthew 24:21-22.

    DECEIVERS


    Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

    Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

    Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

    Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

    According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

    An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

    Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

    Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

    WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

    Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

    Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

    Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

    We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

    Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

    In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

    Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

    But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

    Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

    FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

    Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

    Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

    Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

    The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

    Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

    Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

    During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

    Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

    Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow

    Continued below...
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

    Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

    Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

    Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

    The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

    The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

    Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

    Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

    In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

    In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

    Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

    "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

    Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

    The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

    GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

    It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

    On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

    Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

    Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

    The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

    Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

    By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

    By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


    Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow
     
  18. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Watching and Praying Always

    +1,438
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    oh so you're a full blown preterist.
    okay
    well
    the world still has sin
    still has death
    and Revelation was written after 70AD.
    it's a book of prophecy, not history.
     
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,762
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Oh so you're a full blown futurist.

    I'm an historicist. Matthew 24 and its parallels were prophecy when they were written.

    History provides the evidence of their accuracy.

    History and evidence alien to futurism.
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,083
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Great effort, Ralph!
    Too bad none of it is right, exception perhaps the first four Seals and the Fifth Seal being about all the martyrs since Stephen.
    History does not say anywhere that the cosmic events prophesied have occurred. None of the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl events have happened, we would surely know if they had.

    Do people really think the Bible is just a book of homilies?
    No; we have been properly informed about God's Plans for our future. To biff it all into the dustbin of history is nothing short of outright denial of God's Word.
    We DO have a future and it will be an amazing future. Maybe no quite so for those who will be so surprised and shocked as dramatic events overtake them and they fail to stand firm in their faith.
     
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