Joel Osteen a fake preacher? (as are others?)

Joel Olsteen like many is...

  • A false preacher

  • Is a legit preacher.

  • Somewhere in between.


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TheDag

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Well aren't we judgemental and making assumptions.
if what I said is judgemental then most certainly are your posts also as well as a number of your posts in other threads. you are trying to apply different standards to me to what you apply to yourself. There was nothing judgemental at all about what I said. it is an impression I have got. I acknowledged that i am not the best judge by suggesting a very useful strategy for handling feedback which is to ask those who know you well. poeple on an internet forum don't know you well enough to make that call. Real life friends who spend alot of time with you and see you at your worst as well as your best are the ones to ask.



Where have I ever said you can find good in everything?!?
my mistake upon going back and looking at previous posts you only said that in regards to movies. So tell me what good can you find in Joel Olsteen?




Most of what your saying is lies. For all your asumptions I have PLENTY of people tell me I am right on this forum and tell me to ignore the wolves that are here amongst the sheep. Feel free to think what you will.



Oh and I do not condemn for one little problem. I try help people with whatever problems. I never say "Wow you sinned, well its off to hell with you SINNER!". Don't put words in my mouth. If you REALLY read my posts you'd say we are all sinners and have to work on things to be like Jesus more. Another thing I say is if people ask for advice, I give it to them. IF someones says "Should I be having sex before marriage?" I tell them no. Do you consider that to be condeming them?!?
Really don't know where your coming from with this. What is interesting is you have chosen to reply to one small part but not answer any of the points i made showing the errors in the article you quoted. How about addressing some of them?

Thats funny, no one seems to have a problem with how I am. They know I do not judge people or condemn them. This does not mean I am perfect. And neither are you.
this is actually a very aggresive response. Why is that? I never claimed to be perfect so why would you feel the need to point that out? if close friends in real life who you know will be honest with you and not just tell you what you want to hear say you are not the type to be judgemental then that is great. Whenever somone makes a critcism of me i always ask those who will be honest with me if they think it is true. i deliberately do not ask friends who I think may just tell me what I want to hear.
 
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joey_downunder

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if he promises positive outcomes then why does he acknowledge that bad things happen.....
There is a time and place for that - yes even in sermons. But Sunday after Sunday is unbalanced and unhealthy. Even Jesus grieved at times..... so did the apostles. They suffered and toiled hard to spread the Word and they never got big flash houses (1st century version) and perfect health. Didn't they have enough faith? foxes' book of martyrs

Have you ever listened to critics explaining how far Osteen's sermons fall short of the Gospel? Dr John MacArthur explains it far better than I ever will.
http://www.youtube.com
 
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CounselorForChrist

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if what I said is judgemental then most certainly are your posts also as well as a number of your posts in other threads.
My biggest problems with christians is they do not understand the diffrence between being judgemental and being reproving. I mean if you tell another christian "Mcdonalds is unhealty!" they tend be like "our so judgemental!!"

See my topic about the diffrence here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7634472/

I am human and make mistakes however almost every post I have on this forum is about helping someone or reproving someone. If someone makes a topic that says "Should I be hitting my wife?" then I take as they want advice since it is the advice section. And by asking the question obviously they will get diffrent answers. In my case I tell them the truth like the bible says I should. And then I reproving them by showing verse that show what they are doing is wrong.

I never say I am better or more perfect then them because I am not. Just as I have made topics about my own sins and people have reproved me! But your entitled to your view on what you think judging is. But if you search this forum this is a big topic often because some people think every thing is judging. Where as other realize the bible talks about both judging and reproving. We are to help our christians brothers and sisters are we not?

poeple on an internet forum don't know you well enough to make that call.
I agree with that. Its why often unless someone posts enough info about their question I will not even reprove them because then I'd have to make assumptions based on a lack of info. Its why also in my profile I list I have a brain injury, because often people will turn reproving into judging (towards me) because I may not say the right words or spell right so they assume I am <insert kind of person>.

Its why often unless I feel the Holy Spirit giving me the words I try not to say anything. Because I cannot often say things as well as most people can.

So tell me what good can you find in Joel Olsteen?

As you can see in previous posts I never said hes a horrible person or not a christian...etc. That would be putting words in my mouth. I simply made this topic to point out that I disagree with him on something and "heres why!" and I wanted others opinions. I will admit I shouldn't have titled it "fake preacher", again I'm terrible at wording things sometimes so admiteddly that was my bad.

Regardless of how he brings people to the Lord, they are still being saved. Which is great news! And theres nothing wrong with trying to live a postive life. So I don't have a problem with that end of him. And I try to realize preachers all preac diffrently. I just simply think he needs to preach about more then just the positive. I go back to that orignal link that says in the end days people will turn to preachers who tickle their ears.

Really don't know where your coming from with this. What is interesting is you have chosen to reply to one small part but not answer any of the points i made showing the errors in the article you quoted. How about addressing some of them?
I am sure you won't like this but its not like I have much choice other then to say it. I am not going to respond to something non-stop like I do with atheists. The bible says sometimes people will be blind to the truth and that you have to stop trying to show them because once they have heard the truth and still deny it, you leave it up to God to work on them. That is what I am doing. I've posted evidence and responded to a few posts, now I am pretty much done. As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.

I'm always willing to admit when I am wrong, but unless I really feel I am, I am not going to change my mind on something I believe is right, more so when I have scriptural evidence something is wrong.

this is actually a very aggresive response. Why is that?
Well I apologize if it sounded agressive. I wans't trying to say that you think your perfect. Its just many on here act very much "holier then thou" and if you do not accept their view (even when its proven wrong) they tell you how wrong you are. I felt like I was sort of being attacked by you because you said I should ask my friends, as if you are saying "Go head ask them because you will see they think you are wrong!". Just as I misword things sometimes, maybe you did too. If so then I am sorry if I took it the wrong way.

Not to side track but the most difficult thign about talking online is you cannot tell the emotion someone is trying to convey when they say something. In real life if someone raises their voice you know what they are saying is turning aggresive, if they start to tear up and (sometimes) stumble over their words then they are usually saying thigns our of sadness and sometimes fear.

Online its just words. So we tend to sometimes assume what someones emotion is. A good example is my filipino fiance. I posted a picture of myself on my page and I have a bit of a belly now (side effect of meds). SO she told me and I quote "I seen you am the chubby, but I am ok with belly!" LOL. I can tell she meant well since her english is not great and she was complimenting me and being sweet. But some may think she mewas being mean or making fun of me. Its why I prefer talks in real life.

Then people can see I am a very laid back person. Which answers your question sort of. I've helped many people in my life and they all say I am like a counselour because I am laid back, listen and show compassion and care. I've rarley have even been told I am judgemental except for when I was in my "angry at God" phase years ago.

And yeah the few friends I have outside of the computer I like because they do not sugar coat things for me. They tell me how it is. The women that got me out of my anger phase after my injury is very honest. In all things no matter who helped me or who I helped God gets the glory. My injury has taught me alot and I thank God for that! I can now help others who have life changing events and get mad at God.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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The poll shows a pretty split view on it as I knew would happen. So since its a hot button topic it I may have it closed because I don't want people starting to think angry thoughts or things they shouldn't.

I will post this as my last bit of evidence really. Theres a good link that shows things about Olsteen that people should really read. Such as something where he essenetially says to lie with a smile. Or another time when he says Mormons ARE christians. Or yet another thing where he doesn't really use much scripture but instead uses his own sort of views that often have no scripture behind them (such as lying with a smile).
Word Of Faith Movement

I don't expect people to want to read it or accept it. But no matter who writes and article about someone. If they are directly quoting or showing things from a person, then the article is not lying or just some opinion.
 
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TheDag

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I firmly believe that a God called preacher will try his best to put the fear of God in you. You have to step on toes and NOT sugar coat anything. We have to repent of our sins and they will be wiped clean as if they never happened. I believe he does more teaching than preaching.
essentially he is a teacher just like any other minister at a church. They are talking (in theory) to those who are already christians. So maybe the occasional reminder but teaching is more of what is required of a pastor which is what Olsteen is.
 
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TheDag

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I don't expect people to want to read it or accept it. But no matter who writes and article about someone. If they are directly quoting or showing things from a person, then the article is not lying or just some opinion.
Well just let me say that I read most of the first article. i mentioned in my post that I had not read all of it. Also note directly quoting someone does not actually prove a point. As I pointed out in the article you quoted originally they quoted Osteen and then provided a link to the interview transcript. Once one read the interview transcript one could easily see what Osteen meant because he explained it in the next answer which was not quoted in the article. however the article then said he meant something else. So they did directly quote Osteen but in fact were misepresenting him. They were not telling the truth.

I did not need to read much of the 2nd article you quoted to find problems with it. it seems that the article is suggesting we should preach only if there is nobody to hear! Ok that is reading a little more into it but they are criticising Osteen for wanting to reach people! Sorry when they do that it is hard to take other things they say seriously. There are certain claims which they do not provide support for like alot of their other claims. i don't have the finances to check out their claims.
 
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rockytopva

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Joel Osteen took over his dad's church after his dad's death. He had no interest of being a pastor during his dads lifetime and was in no way prepared for it. He has done well considering the circumstances presented him...

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; - 1 Corinthians 1:27

Now... I must say here that I can't whole heartedly follow the man... But he has done well. If God wants to deal with the issues it is his business.

But... The church services are great! Take time to watch this entire service! I would have liked to have attended!

Lakewood - Joel Osteen... The Perfect Worship Service (1 of 2)! - YouTube
Lakewood - Joel Osteen... The Perfect Worship Service (2 of 2)! - YouTube
 
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SharonL

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I don't go to that church, but I have talked with people that do - they say it is a great community - school, every kind of teaching available, they say even teen agers don't have to leave the church grounds for anything, movies, libraries, gym, and they say they take good care of each other. I haven't heard one word against the church from anyone that has gone there.
 
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TheDag

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I don't go to that church, but I have talked with people that do - they say it is a great community - school, every kind of teaching available, they say even teen agers don't have to leave the church grounds for anything, movies, libraries, gym, and they say they take good care of each other. I haven't heard one word against the church from anyone that has gone there.
just out of curiosity have you heard anyone you know say something bad about a church they attend? looking for a yes or no answer not anymore details and especially not the name of the church
 
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CounselorForChrist

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Actually the christians who truly walk the walk will tell you honestly about the good and the bad about their own church. At least its what we have seen many times. Although obviously that leaves like the other 90% of the church that only ever says good things about it.
 
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Phoenix92885

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I personally think that he's a legit preacher. I may not agree with what he says or how he says it but the man is still a man of God and he's doing a lot better of a job getting the Word out than most of us are. He has the ability to reach more people than the average person does, so I can understand him restraining from "condemning" others. If anything he says is wrong, I don't believe he does it purposefully. Honestly, no preacher is or has been 100% correct except for Jesus himself when he preached. I think instead of trying to drag him down we should think of ways to reach thousands of people like he has. If someone doesn't like how he says something then they can get out there in front of thousands and tell them what it is they believe.

Joel is just a man that God has worked through in great ways but the dudes smile honestly gives me the creeps! Haha!

Phoenix
 
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Mediakira

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Yes, I have seen many people do more hate, condemning behavior on this lately. It has made me think how the atmosphere stinks on here. I do like to see more positive comments more on CF.

No, one is perfect in any shape or form. It has stated in the Bible that God doesn't like people who are arrogant. If man kind thinks they are invented from man, is separated from God. I like to see more people trying to get into the right standing with God. Then looking for flaws on others.
 
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joey_downunder

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Yes, I have seen many people do more hate, condemning behavior on this lately. It has made me think how the atmosphere stinks on here. I do like to see more positive comments more on CF.

No, one is perfect in any shape or form. It has stated in the Bible that God does like people who are arrogant. If man kind thinks they are invented from man, is separated from God. I like to see more people trying to get into the right standing with God. Then looking for flaws on others.

Since when is warning other christians that a preacher is not "feeding the flock" john 21:15-19a hateful thing to do? :doh: When did telling the truth become a sin?
 
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Forealzchola

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I do not believe that Joel Osteen is a false preacher. As a leader and a shepard of the body of christ as it relates to preaching..I believe it is very good to also build up someone's mind with affirmations, stories and life lessons. You should be able to get fed and get encouragement as it relates to talking about life issues and being positive.
 
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Mediakira

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It has been stated in the Bible that the Greatest Commandment is to love thy neighbor. Not to condemn, and shed blood because of the work he has done.


And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
  1. You shall have no other gods before me.
  2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
  3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
  4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
  5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
  6. You shall not murder.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
If you Falsely Accuse your neighbor is also a great sin. It is one of the commandments. If he was at wrong, God would let him know about it first of all. If he was innocent under God. Your breaking your commandment.

You also can have a sin of pride by looking down on others because they have a flaw. Your also breaking the ties of God. By showing hate to others. Because we are suppose to be workers of God and show humility. Not arrogance, and haughtiness.
 
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TheDag

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xfreakazoidx - and today (from 17th April) here is a pastor's talk about Osteen. Joel Osteen and a deadly shooting.
WOW!!! just WOW! THat was a GREAT clip!! Thanks so much for sharing. I'm gonna share that like crazy! Anyone that still thinks hes great should listen to this. WOW again.
perhaps one of you two could tell me what is so great about that clip of absolute poisen. i can't figure it out. First of all it is based on a false claim. i listened to half of it before I had to switch off. Do the research. freakazoid you most of all should realise what olsteen means when he says be positive. You provided the link after all that shows exactly what he means. it does not mean what Trevor hammack said it means and it does not mean what the author of the article you posted said it means.

Trevor Hammack should have been reprimanded by Victory Baptist Church for this grubby piece. he is just throwing mud and hoping it will stick.
 
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TheDag

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Since when is warning other christians that a preacher is not "feeding the flock" john 21:15-19a hateful thing to do? :doh: When did telling the truth become a sin?
because you are not telling the truth joey. you are providing links that do not represent what has been said by joel. i have pointed this out in my posts and provided the evidence from the very article at the start of this thread that was written to say he is a dodgy unbiblical teacher. how about you read that and then comment. Anyone can type in joel's name into google and come up with links that put him down. this really is a case of tall poppy syndrome.
 
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