Joel Osteen a fake preacher? (as are others?)

[CounselorForChrist]

Since I do not want to basically rewrite what I just read heres a copy of the article I wish people to read. Do you agree with this? It seems to have much biblical proof that people like Joel Olsteen are wrong in what they preach.

It is a lengthy article, but I'd like everyone to truly read instead of just skipping it and posting some random statement. If you can read this article fully and tell me why its wrong I'd love to hear advice/opinions on why so.

Alternativly you can read it here:
Joel Osteen - What's Wrong With His Preaching?

Part 1 of 3:

We do not know Joel Osteen personally. He seems like a nice man and he even seems very sincere and no doubt fervently believes in what he is preaching. But one can be sincere and be sincerely wrong.

He has been rebuked by many within Evangelical and Christian Fundamental circles for the very reason that he does not stick to just the preaching of the Word. It is not so much what he is preaching but rather what he is NOT preaching. The entire Word of God must be preached. Where is the Gospel? Where is the preaching of Jesus as Savior? The Lord Jesus died to save us from our SINS-- Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Joel Osteen says that he does not want to condemn anybody. Well, we are not supposed to condemn anybody. We are to preach the Good News that Jesus died to save us from our sins-- and that there is eternal damnation awaiting those who die in their sins. We cannot compromise Scripture or candy coat the SIN PROBLEM which exists.

One can paint daisies on a pig but in the end, a pig is a pig. We cannot candy coat sin and try to preach around it. Jesus did not die to give us a luxury car;
nor did He die to make us successful. Jesus died for OUR SINS. Matthew 1:21 says, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The Bible says in Revelation 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Well, that includes everyone then because all have lied at least once. God cannot have sin in His Holy presence. This is why Jesus died for us...to redeem us and to wash our sins away by His precious shed blood. The Bible says in 1John 3:5 And ye know that he [Jesus] was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. The bible also
tells us in 1Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God..." Hebrews 9:12 tells us that Jesus "by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

Now, where is this preached in Joel Osteen's "success" type sermons? Many successful people pour into hell everyday. Many successful people die in their sins for they did not receive Jesus as their Savior. We all need a Savior to save us from our sins. This is why Jesus came. This is why we have received Him
as Savior. Whenever one forgets this is the primary message, he has gone into the way of apostasy.

THE GOSPEL IS NOT A CONDEMNING MESSAGE

Joel Osteen said on Larry King Live, "The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life
no matter what's happened to you." Herein lies the danger in such a statement. God is NOT for the sinner. God is righteous and holy. He sent His only begotten Son to die for us and to rise again because He loves us but God hates sin.

A person cannot even live a good life apart from Christ. All our righteousness
is found in Christ. He clothes us with His righteousness. We cannot change.
All of our righteousness is as filthy rags, the bible says.

John 3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEW CLIP OF THE LARRY KING SHOW:

Larry King: "You don't call them sinners?"

Joel Oteen: "I don't."

Larry King: "Is that a word you don't use?"

Joel Osteen: "I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning."


No, Joel, one cannot change-- that is why one has to be born again. Outside of Christ Jesus, a person is a poor wretched sinner on his way to hell. It is Christ alone who changes us once we receive Him as Savior. We cannot transform ourselves-- it is God alone who transforms us once we have received His Son!
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Is the Gospel message a condemning one? No! The Lord Jesus said that those who did not believe on Him are condemned already. But John 1:12 says,
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name". So the good news is that Jesus saves. It is not a condemning message but rather the ONLY good message preached to a dying world-- a world that is already condemned because of its sin. GOOD NEWS IS THAT JESUS DIED FOR SINNERS....this is what the Bible says!!

We are to preach John 3:18...a verse MANY today have forgotten.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joel Osteen has been openly admonished by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists for blending his own philosophy--with jokes and humor and just throws choice scriptures in between a "sermon". With a very large church attendance such as his, we would pray that he would get on the straight and narrow and "study to shew thyself approved"so that he would better lead his congregation into the fundamentals of the Word.

In this day and age of apostasy, it is important for a pastor to stay true to the fundamentals of the faith for when the foundations of our faith are lost...where will the church be? Jesus said that when He returns; "shall I even find faith
on the earth?" So we know that faith will be scarce upon the earth in the Last Days.

The world is moving into a "universal faith" with a generic god and a "positive message" that removes the preaching of the Cross of Christ, removes hell, salvation, the blood of Jesus and even renounces the deity of Christ. Shall there be any faith found upon the earth when everything worth believing in is taken away? The Bible says that faith comes by HEARING the Word of God.

EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Bible clearly admonishes us to "Earnestly contend for the faith." We are
to beware of false doctrines and to be aware of the spiritual dangers that await the unsuspecting Christian who has little or no discernment. Joel Osteen views
these particular Evangelicals and Fundamentalists who speak against his "gospel light" sermons as "critics". But what must be realized is that it has nothing to do with him but rather what he is preaching and what his kind of preaching leads to...ecumenism, new age ideas like "God and you" but our bible says that it is "Christ alone" which performs the good work in and through us.

We would rejoice at the success of his church if he were preaching the Gospel and teaching the Word of God...the deep things found within Scripture but
sadly he is on a dangerous path, as we shall explain. One website described his ministry as "MegaChurch and miniGospel".

Joel Osteen views his message as "positive" and it most certainly is but in the REAL world, there is good AND evil. The Bible speaks much about hell, the devil, the evil of this age and the spiritual battle that the Christian is in.

Congregations are to be taught the DANGERS of following false teachers and the dangers of not adhering strictly to Scripture. The Bible is not to be picked apart and pieced together to fit our own ideas. Christians should NOT be well liked by this world. Jesus said, "You will be hated for my name's sake."

1Cor 2:14 But the natural manreceiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Lord Jesus said in John 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Yet Joel Osteen's church is growing by leaps and bounds. It is a place where most can feel very comfortable. Everyone leaves feeling good about themselves and their "purpose".The Word of God warns us in 2Timothy 4:3-4"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Today, there are many pastors who are preaching what their congregations WANT to hear rather than what God's Word says to preach. The message the preacher delivers should be one of repentance. No one likes to hear the word, "repentance".

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Part 2 of 3:

BE NOT DECEIVED

One cannot just preach the "positive" but rather one must rightly divide the
Word of Truth and preach the WHOLE WORD OF GOD. There is a devil. The bible says that he walks about seeking whom he may devour. Satan appears as an angel of light-- which means he is out to deceive and he is the master of deception. The Bible admonishes CHRISTIANS to be sober and vigilant. It is the Christian the Bible is warning:

1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: How will the congregations across America recognize evil devices if they are not instructed in the Word of God?

If a vicious lion from the Houston Zoo were to get loose and run into Joel Osteen's church, would not everyone inside run for cover? Would there be a "feel good" positive response? Absolutely not! Every "dream your dream" type sermon and "fulfill your potential" sermon would not remedy the lion running through the isles. Yet the devil walks about in the spiritual realm seeking those he may devour. Just because you can't see him does not mean he does not
exist. The devil is out to destroy the sheep; he wants to destroy the faith of
the sheep. Since faith comes by hearing the Word of God, satan has made it
his goal to twist Scripture. His desire is the removal of scripture from the foundation of the sermon; he instead wants scripture as merely an "addition to" a man-made sermon.

THE DEVIL IS RELIGIOUS

The devil is religious. He doesn't mind if you read a verse here or there but he does not want you to really READ the Word-- for when a person Reads the Bible, they find the truth.

The devil rewrites God's Word..."Yea, hath God said?"
The devil is a POSITIVE PREACHER..."You won't die...your eyes will be opened, you will be like gods" is his theme among many "Christians" today,
just as it was with Eve in the garden of evil.

Christians now say, "Oh I don't believe in all that hell and damnation stuff. I
am into positive Christianity." Yet the Bible is specific in stating that there is a Lake of Fire and the bible is specific in stating that whosoever was not found
in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Consider what Joel Osteen said on July 3, 2005, during an interview on Larry King:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/03/lkl.01.html

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?

OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.

Well, if a pastor of 30,000 + doesn't feel its his place to literally tell his sheep about hell and what the Bible says, who on earth will tell them? Joel Osteen seemed a bit nervous when asked about his beliefs:

KING: Do you share Billy's beliefs of life after death in a sense of going somewhere?

OSTEEN: I do. I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there's a heaven you know. Afterwards, there's, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it's when we have a relationship
with God and his son Jesus and that's what the Bible teaches us. I believe it.

Now, Larry King asks THE question we have all heard him ask before:

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches
and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and
what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

They Love God? Which God? They have hundreds of gods and if they are not born again then they DO NOT know God for he who knows the Father must first know His Son-- the Lord Jesus!

Was Joel being a politician when he said, "I don't know if I believe they're wrong..."? Meanwhile, so many Christians all over the globe were saying, "Speak plainly-- Stand up for your faith!" There are missionaries and Christians all over the world who are standing up for the Lord Jesus Christ in the face of brutal persecution. Christians die every day for their faith. One has to wonder how they would respond to Joel's answers. True Christians believe Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven and that is why they reach the lost. This is why they are willing to die preaching the Gospel.

The Bible is NOT shades of gray with blended philosophies of man. The Bible is very clear that it is ONLY through Jesus Christ that mankind can be saved. We cannot argue with God. We cannot rewrite the Bible. Joel Osteen made a written apology on his website for the King interview. One has to wonder if he also made an apology to Larry King-- for the misleading and cowardly statements. He very well should, if he has not already.

Preaching the whole Word of God is not a condemnation message either. It is
a message of Good News but it is only good news to those who already KNOW the bad news.

Preaching hell is not condemnation but rather good news that Jesus died to
save us from hell. We all deserve hell but Christ Jesus died for the ungodly.
He died so that we would not have to die in our sins. His blood can make the vilest sinner clean. One cannot get saved unless he knows he is truly lost. One must hear WHY Jesus died to save them. Jesus did not come to show us a "better life" but rather He died to save us from our SINS and He rose again from the dead on the Third Day. Jesus is the Living Savior!

It is only after one receives Him as Savior that they receive the benefits of salvation, which is abundant life through Jesus Christ.

We all need to pray for Joel Osteen and especially his congregation. He says that he believes the bible but he needs to be bold and preach the entire bible, not just the topics he likes. I happened to watch, for a few minutes, his "dedication" service for his new building on TBN the other night and hell was mentioned but only in the sense that they are NOT going to preach hell, just the "positive" things of the Bible.

Well, how can one know he needs a Savior if hell is not preached??

How can one know of biblical salvation without the WHOLE Gospel message being preached-- saved from what? From problems? or from hell? Jesus spoke of those that did not believe would perish. Jesus preached the doctrine of hell. He said that it would be better to cut off your hand than to go into everlasting torment.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Part 3 of 3

A PASTOR'S DUTY

2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

It is a pastor's duty to build his congregation up on the most holy faith. A
pastor takes care of his sheep-- he guards them and feeds them. He guards against false doctrines infiltrating the church and he feeds his congregation
with the Word of God-- the milk of the Word and the meat as well. A pastor should KNOW the Word first before he preaches to others. Dodi Osteen was boasting to the Lakewood congregation that "thank God" her son does not have any formal education. You won't hear a doctor's mother saying that. A surgeon must learn before he operates and so must a pastor. If one cannot attend seminary, then some kind of doctrinal training and fervent personal
study is needed. A shepherd must lead the sheep in the proper direction. The only way he knows the right direction is by reading and studying the road map-- the Holy Bible-- all of it-- not just some of it.

2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The foundation of any sermon is the preaching of the Word-- the focus being
on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work--what He accomplished for us
at the Cross and in His Resurrection. The sermon should not be about us but rather about Him. One observation that can be noted is that many churches today say "We" an awful lot but the bible is VERY clear in James 4:13-15:
"Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. For
that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that."

Christ Jesus said in John 15:5, "Without me ye can do nothing."

"he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

It is God alone who works a good work in us. We, of ourselves, can do nothing.

WORSHIP

In addition, the so-called worship songs of this age are becoming "We" and "I" songs but true worship is giving all glory to God alone. Tell of HIS wondrous deeds...praise the Lord-- "YOU have done great things O Lord."

Many worship songs are "I will worship you, I will sing to you, etc. "I...I...I..."
but its not about "I"-- it's about Him. He has saved us, redeemed us, He is coming back for us. Worship is to magnify the Lord, not to say, "I will sing to you". Worship is praising Him. "Praise you Lord for all you have done. You
are worthy. You are exalted above all." "Not I but Christ liveth in me."

CONCLUSION

1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some
shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines
of devils;

The Bible warns us that in the Last Days, some shall listen to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. The Bible warns about those having "itching ears".
The Greek means to "tickle the ears"...in other words "ear candy".
People seeking preachers who will preach sermons that please their ears.

How can a preacher possibly lead his flock on the narrow path when he has abandoned the ONE AND ONLY road map-- the Bible and the true doctrines found therein? How can the shepherd lead his sheep in truth when his road
map is lost among humanistic ideas and "make you feel good" type sermons?

The Bible-- Sola Scriptura-- must again resound within the Body of Christ.
Notice that God was speaking to the Church when the Holy Spirit penned:
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Read the words of Jesus:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Jesus said, "Buy of me.." We are to LOOK to Him. The Church, as a whole, has much wealth, many goods and many "christian" books and sermons. They keep filling their storehouses with material wealth that is but temporal. If we believe God's Word, we are not to be ashamed of our faith in Christ Jesus.
We are to look to Him.

We are NOT to consider the words of Jesus as "condemning words". We cannot rewrite the Christian faith to please the world. WE CANNOT IMPROVE THE WORLD! We were not called to make the world "civilized". We were not called to place bandages over sin. Jesus did NOT command us, "Go ye and improve the world." Jesus said, "Preach the Gospel." It is Jesus alone that can save and one only gets saved by hearing the Gospel message
and believing on Him.

Joel Osteen takes a well traveled path seeking to be an "encourager" but in turn compromises the Word of God by his omission of VERY important Scriptural truths. THERE IS A HELL AND JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS so that we would not have to go there. The bible is to be preached IN ITS ENTIRETY. God’s Word tells us that, “ALL Scripture is profitable”…not just the Joel Osteen favorites.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[MountainofGod1]

there aren't really any foreign doctrines there

 

[Leonfrost]

I disagree with this article. I think Joel has some goods points here (for the record I'm not a fan, don't know the first thing about him other than what I read here). Now, here's why this article is in my opinion taking things way too far.

Joel's approach seems to be along the lines of: Get people to church, don't condemn them but instead help them to feel they can better themselves. The article thinks that by not teaching salvation in Christ, Joel is damning these people.

But what the article's author fails to realize is that Joel's approach LEADS TO a relationship with Christ. If he can get people to attend his church and then feel that they can better themselves, that they're accepted, then they keep coming back, and keep hearing him draw them closer to God.

So no, I don't think he's a false preacher.

 

[joey_downunder]

MountainofGod1 if you cannot see what Osteen says/doesn't say is wrong you need to read the bible and /or change churches if your pastor "teaches" just like him. Jesus said blunt, unpleasant words to confront people with their sin matthew 23

Doesn't know for suurre if non-christians go to hell - john 3:18, mark 16:16, 1 corinthians 11:32

Doesn't preach anything about sin, repentance etc. "Because it doesn't sound positive enough" - luke 5:32/, john 8:34, romans 3:9-20

Plus there's the word-of-faith teachings and claims that Mormons are christians proves Osteen is either a theological dunce (therefore should NOT be preaching) or he is a false teacher - positive words and a friendly smile does not undo the spiritual deceptions he is "teaching" naive, biblically illiterate christians. Joel Osteen and (Mormon) Mitt Romney believe in the same Jesus? | Defending. Contending.

 

[joey_downunder]

I disagree with this article. I think Joel has some goods points here (for the record I'm not a fan, don't know the first thing about him other than what I read here). Now, here's why this article is in my opinion taking things way too far.

Joel's approach seems to be along the lines of: Get people to church, don't condemn them but instead help them to feel they can better themselves. The article thinks that by not teaching salvation in Christ, Joel is damning these people.

But what the article's author fails to realize is that Joel's approach LEADS TO a relationship with Christ. If he can get people to attend his church and then feel that they can better themselves, that they're accepted, then they keep coming back, and keep hearing him draw them closer to God.

So no, I don't think he's a false preacher.

A half-gospel is a half-truth. Half-truths are lies. Half-truths are dangerous.

God loves us BUT He hates our sin. Because of His holiness He will not let unholy sinners into Heaven.
Positive talk in Christianese will not lead unsaved people into salvation;true faith in Christ Jesus and what He did on the cross to pay for our sins is what makes a christian born-again.

If Osteen taught the full gospel his church attendance statistics would plummet. He is scratching itching ears, telling people that God loves them just as they are. That is a lie. 2 timothy 4:3-4

 

[MountainofGod1]

you can read one verse out of the bible to someone, without reading the bible to them from beginning to end, and God can speak to them from that one verse

there is no such ''full gospel'' or ''full truth'', anything that isn't straight out of the bible is doctrine. He could do more, but he hasn't denied any part of the bible.

 

[Humble Pie]

Joel Osteen has a calling to stand up for an hour and tell of nothing but the good news that God is doing or is capable of doing in our lives, no interruptions.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I refer to something I seen (maybe from that article?). It said anyone can speak wonderful words and be amazing. It doesn't mean they are doing it right.

Back for a time before my injury I was like Joel. I'd be happy and postive (which is fine of course), but I would avoid talking about the negative. Even one time when a friend told me he was moltesting his little sister. I didn't correct him. I just talked postive (er, about in general, not about what he was doing).

Many I've met listen to Joel and become like drones. I mentioned it before on here but the guy that lead my parents to the lord and is my parents best friend... well his wife starting listening to Joel. After a few months she called here and asked how we were doing. At the time my dad just had a major surgery so my mom told her "Oh <dads name> just had surgery so hes in some pain but over all we can't complain!".

Well for whatever reason this lady in a snobby voice told my mom she didn't call to hear about negative stuff. She said you shouldn't have that in your life because thats what Joel told her personally. Mind you this woman was never negative to begin with. SO with that she told my she didn't want to talk if she was going to continue to be negative and she hung up. She hasn't talked to since then (years now).

Admiteddly he can draw people to God. But what hes doing is both good and bad. Because those who are trying to grow as christians and when life goed bad they end up leaving christianity because they assumed it was this perfect happy life like Joel makes it out to be. Thats the dangerous end of it.

Then theres the how Joel lives. As that article says Jesus didn't die so Joel can earn a sports car. Its fine if your wealthy but still try to live humbly. He doesn't live humbly. Being rich is part of his "feel good" ministry. I'm sure he will go to heaven like the rest of us. I just don't care for what he does.

If Osteen taught the full gospel his church attendance statistics would plummet. He is scratching itching ears, telling people that God loves them just as they are. That is a lie. 2 timothy 4:3-4

Exactly. Thats what the article was saying at the end. In the end days people will turn to preachers who tell them what they want to hear. As in they don't really want to hear that they should examine their lives or they may be sinning. If Joel said that ALOT of his followers would vanish. People don't have to admit it but alot of christians don't like some biblical truths. They want to believe they are living as pretty much perfect christians.

You see it alot on this forum when people talk. Just as you see alot of christians who are into that perfectly happy and postive lifestyle that keep turning from God in confusion because they were not taught the whole gospel. Its why I try so hard to help these people. But often they have been lead so far astray that its hard to reach them. It makes me very sad.

My pastor is great. He talks about everything. The service before Easter during his sermon he looked out to the members and said we are all sinners. Some of us hav issues like addictions, maybe spending to much time with sports then God. We all have some things in our lives we need to fix and work on daily. Those are good messages. If you ever listen to pastor and he says something and you feel guilty...then hes doing it right!

Not that you should constantly be made to feel guilty of course. But.... if no one makes us think about it at all really, how are we going to examine our lives? We have no basis to do so because we are to busy trying to stay postive and ignoring possilbe issues going on.

I do not say the following to sound weird but when someone gets to heaven who followed Joel God will say "Why did you not really ever examine your life?".

You: "Well I was a good person Lord. I stayed positive all the time!".

God: "Its wonderful you stayed postive my child, but by staying positive how are you going to examine your life? You never listened to preachers who tried to make you think. You just wanted good news."

You: "But Father I was positive, isn't that what matters really? I stayed up beat, I praised you, I did great works!".

God: "You sound as if you think maybe you were perfect then?".

You: "I never listened to bad news, I never shared in talking about negative things!"

God: "Exactly my child. If you don't talk about the negative to how can see if maybe you needed to work on something? How could you help others then if you yourself didn't want to hear about the negative?"

You: "But...but Joel told us not to focus on that!"

God: "But what did I tell you to do in the bible? You were to remain humble, spread my word and realize you are all sinners that always need to exmaine yourselves!"

I could go on but you get my drift. As I said earlier, we will all go to heaven. But I think those who focus on postive only and don't want to hear what else the bible says are going to be a little confused when God talks to them. Some of my friends and family often quote people like Olsteen. And they do have some great things to say. But thats all they say.

Olsteen is all about "You" rather then "God". Or as another article says:

Osteen preaches his own version of what is known as the “prosperity gospel” – that God is a loving, forgiving God who will reward believers with health, wealth and happiness. It’s the centerpiece of every sermon

Or perhaps the best quote I've seen:

What you speak, you can have. Nowhere in the New Testament is the church taught this.

And thats very true. It borders on Cathlocism to me. If you act good, you will get good and be rewarded. Look at how many people on this forum don't understand why their prayers aren't being answered. They think God must not love them because of people like Joel who tell you, you can have whatever you want if you just ask. God is not a genie. He does have plans for us but this isn't a game show where the better you are, the more you get.

At one of the older churches we went to the pastor was a nice guy, he had a relativly nice life, a nice car....etc. He was a great man of God. Well one day he found out he had cancer and he died a year later. Was this because he wasn't being postive enough or not doing enough good? No. It was because it just happens! This is what Olsteen fails to teach people. By living perfect your life will not BE perfect. How are we to have trials if we had perfect lives? How would we grow if we thought we were already perfect?

If you think about really what he is teaching is to be judgemental. If someone else is having difficulties in life, then you must ignore them because they must be negative. Why else would they be having troubles! >.> I realize not all of his followers may be like this. But from what I've seen most seem to act like it.

 

[LOCO]

His Prosperity Gospel is a false doctrine. Of course he would preach that being financially wealthy is what God wants, he gets all his income from the audience.

I don't go to church to be part of the audience of an entertainment 'show' that these tele-evangelists put on, I go to worship Christ.

 

[MountainofGod1]

find that many people are living in a false humility and sense of poverty, which is not what we are called for, and they live in opposition to their Christian brothers, instead of living in opposition to the enemy.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I don't go to church to be part of the audience of an entertainment 'show' that these tele-evangelists put on, I go to worship Christ.

Well said.

find that many people are living in a false humility and sense of poverty

Erm are you saying God doesn't want us to be humble? Perhaps you should see this:

The Bible is very straightforward when discussing those who are filled with pride. James and 1 Peter quote Proverbs 3:34, which states that "He (God) mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble." Proverbs 16:18 goes even more in depth, saying that "pride goes before destruction; a haughty spirit before the fall." It is only in being humble that we realize just how much we need a Savior. Those who are proud believe they are fine as is and that they don't need God in their lives.

Christians are taught that they should live just as Christ Himself lived. Christ's life on earth began as humbly as could be, in a stable in Bethlehem. In Matthew 11, Jesus says, "take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart." He goes on to say that "you will find rest for your souls" by doing this.

Most importantly, Jesus humbled himself to the will of his Father. Every time you say the Lord's Prayer, which Christ taught us, you humble yourself before God ("Thy will be done"). Jesus humbled himself again in the Garden of Gethsemane, when he again submitted to the will of the Father. As Phillipians 2:8 states, "He humbled Himself and became obedient to death, even death on a cross." In short, Christ is the ultimate example of a person being humble.

As stated above, it is only in being humble that one realizes just how badly one needs salvation. As 1 Peter says, "humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he may life you up in due time." When you submit your will to God, you can get through the difficult times of your life with relative ease, since those who are humble and spend time in prayer and reading the Word of God will be given direction

As for poverty (or more so giving):

• Acts 20:35
  ... remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' (NIV)

God wants us to give because he knows how blessed we will be as we give generously to him and to others. Giving is a kingdom principle—it brings more blessing to the giver than to the recipient.
When we give freely to God, we receive freely from God.

• Luke 6:38
  Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. (NIV) Proverbs 11:24
  One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. (NIV)

God promises that we will be blessed over and above that which we give and also according to the measure that we use to give. But if we hold back from giving with a stingy heart, we hinder God from blessing our lives.

 

[Humble Pie]

Well for whatever reason this lady in a snobby voice told my mom she didn't call to hear about negative stuff. She said you shouldn't have that in your life because thats what Joel told her personally. Mind you this woman was never negative to begin with. SO with that she told my she didn't want to talk if she was going to continue to be negative and she hung up. She hasn't talked to since then (years now).

I've heard similar from a couple of prosperity types - one lady humiliating the poor for being a bad example and another saying she didn't want to be there for her friend because it was negative. Any sane Christian can see this is plain mean.

On the other hand I don't believe it's Godly to allow people in negativie situations to suck the life and joy the Lord has given you right out of you. The Bible says to "guard your heart for out of it comes the issues of life". We need (Godly) boundaries in our lives.

tbh I'd be surprised if Joel Osteen did tell this lady what she claimed, having lost his father to illness and knowing grief. Did your mum give her friend reason to lose patience with her?

Anyway to me at least, Osteen's preaching isn't about getting rich or not having a bad day. Joel even preaches about "seasons of sewing and harvest". To me, he reminds me that God is for me, not against me, it's not to late to have a harvest and that God is my helper.

It's not about money to me at all.

 

[janny108]

I have several devotion books and his is one of them. It does lift me up and there is nothing wrong with being positive as I get depressed sometimes. I listen to others too that give me a more grounded teaching about all aspects of life.

 

[SharonL]

I disagree with this article. I think Joel has some goods points here (for the record I'm not a fan, don't know the first thing about him other than what I read here). Now, here's why this article is in my opinion taking things way too far.

Joel's approach seems to be along the lines of: Get people to church, don't condemn them but instead help them to feel they can better themselves. The article thinks that by not teaching salvation in Christ, Joel is damning these people.

But what the article's author fails to realize is that Joel's approach LEADS TO a relationship with Christ. If he can get people to attend his church and then feel that they can better themselves, that they're accepted, then they keep coming back, and keep hearing him draw them closer to God.

So no, I don't think he's a false preacher.

- No he is not a false preacher - he does just as you say - he get's them into church and the Holy Spirit will do the rest. Some of the hard nose, podium pounding, shouting preachers turn a lot of people off, some like the calm way that Joel puts out the Word. If the one doing the critizing has a line in Heaven as long as Joel Osteen's then he can say he was right, but Joel will be responsible for thousands and thousands of people finding their way to Heaven. Some say he does not preach Jesus - at the end of every service he ask everyone to ask Jesus into their hearts.

 

[janny108]

amen Sharon!

 

[Avniel]

I don't really pay him much mind but once I read the article I think we have a similar approach.

As far as God blessing you taking you from no stability to stable and providing your needs I've been there. I don't think money needs to be taught in church however I do believe that it is possible to be blessed with nice things.

As far as not preaching the gospel or half gospel I think that just depends on where you are at in your walk. For new Christians or unbelievers I think the power of Christ is a very strong message I think it's stronger then the sinner go to hell message. If I was asked why am I Christian my answer has nothing to do with hell. My answer would be because Jesus Christ is the son of God and He died on the cross for my sins. I think that's what the guy is saying and I don't see anything wrong with that.

I honestly think people let the negative take over their life. Christians don't want that they want the storefront fire preaching pastor brimstone and flames.....I think using fear as a way to entice believers is what changes Christianity into a religion with traditions and rules that really don't mean much. I was drawn in through the love of Christ not the fear of hell.

He did say he doesn't say sinner that was kinda off but other then that I didn't see to much wrong.

The man that wrote that did read Between the lines more then a few times.

Also anyone professing to be a man of God I don't judge them or say they are false prophets I just don't listen to them. Who knows but God, and I'm not the type to talk down a fellow brother.

I think people just love negativity and have an issue with how people are being released from bondage not out of fear but out of love.

 

[LOCO]

- No he is not a false preacher - he does just as you say - he get's them into church and the Holy Spirit will do the rest. Some of the hard nose, podium pounding, shouting preachers turn a lot of people off, some like the calm way that Joel puts out the Word. If the one doing the critizing has a line in Heaven as long as Joel Osteen's then he can say he was right, but Joel will be responsible for thousands and thousands of people finding their way to Heaven. Some say he does not preach Jesus - at the end of every service he ask everyone to ask Jesus into their hearts.

He will tell the masses whatever they want to hear because they give him the $ to justify his false Prosperity Doctrine.

Of course he is going to sound like a Christian, he has to convince them to part with their hard earned dollars.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Perhaps people that like him should go see the movie Book Of Eli. Its the perfect example of the bible on two sides. On one side you got someone who truly believe in it and uses it as its to be used. Then you got someone who knows the power of its word and wants to harness that power to make himself rich, powerful...etc.

The bad guy in that movie reminds me of Joel Olsteen. Anyone can use it and make themselves look good. Its one thing I've always been taught, just because someone looks like a pretty perfect chrsitians doesn't mean they are. You can talk the talk but God knows your motives. And if your a child of God then you should be able to use your discernment and see when someone is doing what Joel is doing.