Jewish naming of YHWH

[OSAS 101]

How about Emmanuel?

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Emmanuel is a title.

 

[EmSw]

Indeed, and this binds to Isaiah. Which is the very book we have one of the oldest copies of. It’s in Israel.

Isaiah 43:11 and Luke 2:11 make an interesting case.

And then there is Isaiah 9:6 -

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[EmSw]

Emmanuel is a title.

But it doesn't say shall call His 'title' Emmanuel.

 

[OSAS 101]

But it doesn't say shall call His 'title' Emmanuel.

Maybe it's his last name.
Hello caesar Emannual.
Sounds good.

 

[Ken Rank]

But that is the problem with Greek. Kyrios is applied to every king and noble of mankind, even to an owner by his slaves, and Theos applies to Thor, and Indra, and Lugh. They are in themselves empty words that do not distinguish between actual worthiness and feigned worthiness. Which is part of why Greek is an annoying language for the NT.

You're getting hung up on minor things. YHWH calls Himself Ba'al... what are you going to do with that? His people call Him Adonai and are not rebuked: (Two examples of MANY)

Gen 15:2 But Abram said, "Lord(Adonai) God, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?"

Exodus 5:22 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Lord (adonai), wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? why is it that thou hast sent me?

And He refers to Himself as Adonai: (just one example of many, I am running out of time)

Ezk. 6:3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord(adonai) GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

And He calls Himself Ba'al:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband(ba'al), The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.

God doesn't have the problem we seem to have. Like I said earlier, there are far more important topics to discuss, or work that needs to be done.

 

[Kaon]

YHWH's name is used over 6800 times in the Bible, and the oldest written version of His name is on the Ketef Hinnom "silver scrolls" amulets.

We need to use His name instead of using words like the Saxon/Germanic God, the Greek Theos, and the Latin Deus, which are as applicable to Thor and Ptah as to Him and which occlude his nature and being!

He told us a name we could use if we wanted to "address" Him or His character in seriousness. It isn't YHWH; that is a title hijacked by many entities playing god(s) meaning "self-existent" or "eternal". Adonai is "lord".

In Enoch, He is known as the [invisible] Lord of Spirits.

But you are right, there is a lot of power in His name, and in a name in general - especially if you know how to use it. We need to get the name of the right God, or else there are plenty of impostors waiting to fill the void.

 

[Grip Docility]

And then there is Isaiah 9:6 -

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Avi’ ad

I get chills every time I read that passage!

 

[dqhall]

And He calls Himself Ba'al:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband(ba'al), The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.

God doesn't have the problem we seem to have. Like I said earlier, there are far more important topics to discuss, or work that needs to be done.

Baal was a storm god in the Ugaritic/NW Semitic pantheon. In the Old Testament Elijah was opposed to the prophets of Baal.

Besides Yahweh and Adonai, there were other words used to describe God: El, Elohim and El Shaddai were used in the Old Testament as well. Beth El means House of God. El was also found to describe a bull deity in cuneiform tablets found at Ugarit/Ras Shamra in Syria. Ugarit was a Bronze Age NW Semitic Mediterranean coastal town.

 

[Inkfingers]

You're getting hung up on minor things. YHWH calls Himself Ba'al... what are you going to do with that? His people call Him Adonai and are not rebuked: (Two examples of MANY)

Gen 15:2 But Abram said, "Lord(Adonai) God, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?"

Exodus 5:22 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Lord (adonai), wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? why is it that thou hast sent me?

And He refers to Himself as Adonai: (just one example of many, I am running out of time)

Ezk. 6:3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord(adonai) GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

And He calls Himself Ba'al:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband(ba'al), The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.

God doesn't have the problem we seem to have. Like I said earlier, there are far more important topics to discuss, or work that needs to be done.

I'm not speaking about them saying Lord.

I'm speaking about them saying Lord INSTEAD OF saying YHWH.

 

[Hank77]

But that isn't true... we have the LXX (Septuagint)... the Greek OT from 300BC that was taken from Hebrew to Greek for Hellenized Jews. There, everything was in Greek but God's name which was written in Paleo-Hebrew (the font in use at the time). We have YHWH written in the Massoretic script from 900AD, and we have stuff from Qumran from the time of Christ that has His name written. I think people just make stuff up.

I don't have personal acknowledge of Yehovah being written in the Qumran but it is used over 600 times in the OT.

 

[Grip Docility]

I'm not speaking about them saying Lord.

I'm speaking about them saying Lord INSTEAD OF saying YHWH.

I understand your idea here. What would you say to the idea that it isn’t getting His name correct that brings it all home, but Who He is that has the power?

 

[Hank77]

Because there was no vowel and they knew not to make up a sound or interpretation for it when the Lord did not give it to them. It was not until 500 years after Christ some Talmudic Jews Masoretes who don't believe in Jesus by the way introduced the vowel many use today to say Yaweh.

So the story goes. But in the old MSS of the Tanakh it is spelled with the vowels but with one missing, except there are a few places where the scribe did write all the vowels. I believe they can be found in Aleppo Codex but there are hundreds of other documents.

Nehemia, in the first video, explains how he first found them. Many Jews know them.

 

[Inkfingers]

I understand your idea here. What would you say to the idea that it isn’t getting His name correct that brings it all home, but Who He is that has the power?

I think that both are important.

So long as we keep using "God" or "Deus" or "Theos" we make it too easy for Atheists to sneer about Tezcatlipoca or Odin or Amaterasu. Speaking of YHWH as "God" uses too small a category. It includes Him in an insulting category because its the same shelf as the aforementioned names.

So I think that we need to use His name in order to help teach Who He is by not using a generic term.

 

[Hank77]

And He calls Himself Ba'al:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband(ba'al), The Lord of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.

?

I think He calls Himself married.
The transliteration is spelled baal, but it is not referring to the name; noun or pronoun. It's a verb meaning to marry or rule over. That is why it was translated husband.
Isaiah 54:5 Interlinear: For thy Maker is thy husband, Jehovah of Hosts is His name, And thy Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, 'God of all the earth,' He is called.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

So the story goes. But in the old MSS of the Tanakh it is spelled with the vowels but with one missing, except there are a few places where the scribe did write all the vowels. I believe they can be found in Aleppo Codex but there are hundreds of other documents.

Nehemia, in the first video, explains how he first found them. Many Jews know them.

And never mind biblical spoken Hebrew was a dead language for over 1800 years. We also know the language changed after Babylonian captivity. So how does anyone alive honestly think they know what it sounded like 2000 years ago...I wish people would stop and think for a second.

Anyhow Jesus never referenced the father as Yahweh once or told us too.

 

[Grip Docility]

I think that both are important.

So long as we keep using "God" or "Deus" or "Theos" we make it too easy for Atheists to sneer about Tezcatlipoca or Odin or Amaterasu. Speaking of YHWH as "God" uses too small a category. It includes Him in an insulting category because its the same shelf as the aforementioned names.

So I think that we need to use His name in order to help teach Who He is by not using a generic term.

In this sense, you are suggesting using His Name in a way that defends it. I understand your point and see Love for Christ behind it.

I’m certain you would be merciful to others that don’t share this exact idea, but at the same time, it’s always wonderful to see passionate study of Him.

Infact, your very thought is generating some wonderful dialogue about Him.

 

[Shek]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere (can't remember if it was Jewish Mysticism, secrets of Kabbalah or Enoch)....but the reason that it's not spoken is because you can literally summon Seraphim or Cherubim by speaking it phonetically correct. The "name" is a closely guarded secret because it's so powerful.

 

[Ken Rank]

Baal was a storm god in the Ugaritic/NW Semitic pantheon. In the Old Testament Elijah was opposed to the prophets of Baal.

Besides Yahweh and Adonai, there were other words used to describe God: El, Elohim and El Shaddai were used in the Old Testament as well. Beth El means House of God. El was also found to describe a bull deity in cuneiform tablets found at Ugarit/Ras Shamra in Syria. Ugarit was a Bronze Age NW Semitic Mediterranean coastal town.

I know, thanks. I have been reading Hebrew for some time. My point was only that most people who get all hung up on whether or not we can use a substitute title (like God or Lord) and get really hung up on making sure we all say the name YHWH (in whatever pronunciation happens to be popular this week) are unaware that the prophets calls YHWH "Adonai" (i.e. master or Lord in English), that He called Himself Adonai, and that even a word adopted by a pagan god, ba'al (which is one of the words for husband in Hebrew) was a word YHWH used for Himself.

What does it mean... that WE are the ones with the hangups, not God.

 

[Ken Rank]

I'm not speaking about them saying Lord.

I'm speaking about them saying Lord INSTEAD OF saying YHWH.

I just showed you a few verses and can show 100, where IN THE BIBLE, prophets called Him Adonai rather than YHWH. If don't want to see that, that is between you and God, but it's in the bible. He doesn't have the issue about titles, humans do.

 

[Ken Rank]

I don't have personal acknowledge of Yehovah being written in the Qumran but it is used over 600 times in the OT.

Almost 7200 times in the Tanach (OT), not 600. And to see it in certain DSS, you just have to look at them in the Aramaic, not the translations.