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Jewish members who visit CF

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by ShirChadash, May 27, 2008.

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  1. ShirChadash

    ShirChadash A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!

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    Did you know that for the purposes of the messianic forum, apparently now the non-Jewish Messianic Gentiles forum members are being considered Messianic Jews here? I received a PM this morning stating that for the purposes of the MJ forum it is not necessary for a Gentile to actually go through the conversion process in order to call themselves a Jew. A non-Jewish Gentile may consider, proclaim, insist he is a Jew by nothing but "cuz I said so" in the Messianic forum here, apparently.

    How do you feel about this? I think this is replacement theology at its most deceptive.
     
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  2. ChazakEmunah

    ChazakEmunah Emunah Sh'liach

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    Deceptive? No, just another flavor of Replacement Theology... that's all.
     
  3. Talmidah

    Talmidah היום כולם יודעים - הרב כהנא צדק

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    I think it is very sad that this deceptive practice is allowed to take place here. I have no trouble with disagreement at all and in fact learn much from those with whom I disagree. But what would hope for is honesty and integrity. If that least that is not there, there is absolutely no point to engaging in further discussion.

    So a gentile becomes a Jew when they post here, huh? Why would a gentile be so offended at being called a gentile anyway? Its like when I hear from some segments of the Messianic world that they are highly offended at being called Christian. I always feel bad for the rest of Christians that they are looked upon with such disdain.
     
  4. Druweid

    Druweid {insert witty phrase}

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    I guess from the Christian POV, you are both equally in need of saving, so the difference is negligible.

    Just a thought,
    -- Druweid
     
  5. ShirChadash

    ShirChadash A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!

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    ^_^:doh:
     
  6. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    Quite right. If one accepts Biblical teaching on the issue, then one must accept that Jews are also sinners separated from God, and can only be redeemed by faith in Jesus Christ. Contrary to modern ecumenical movements, a Jewish faith in a vague "messiah to come" is not sufficient for salvation. Jews, as well as Gentiles, must confess the name of Jesus in order to be saved. And anyone who confesses his name is grafted into the Abrahamic covenant, and made part of God's people Israel.

    From a practical standpoint, what does it matter if a person is ethnically Jewish or not? This concerns me as little as discussions on what constitutes a black person. What matters is whether a person belongs to Christ or not.
     
  7. Talmidah

    Talmidah היום כולם יודעים - הרב כהנא צדק

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    And I'm sure we all understand you're views on the subject of Jews. But that aside, you don't think its a little strange that Gentiles would want to claim to be Jews? Or that someone would get in trouble for stating that Gentiles are Gentiles?

    BTW, How've you been arunma? Its been a long time since I've been in a thread with you. :)
     
  8. ShirChadash

    ShirChadash A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!

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    Like I said elsewhere, it is G-d who created the Jew (and told him what to believe ;) ) and Gentiles coming to faith in Jesus were never called Jews just because they believed. One in faith, yes. Jews, no?
     
  9. ShirChadash

    ShirChadash A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!

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    Thankfully, G-d sees it differently ;) .
     
  10. ChavaK

    ChavaK להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

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    :thumbsup:
     
  11. ChavaK

    ChavaK להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

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    Here is a quote from the thread in the Messianic Forum you are discussing:
    It seems that they think if you are calling yourself a "Messianic Jew" you
    aren't really calling yourself a Jew.

    Why don't they just call themselves "Messianic Gentiles" or "Messianic Believers"?
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Shalom ChavaK :kiss:
    Why not just plain ole Christ-ian :D

    Acts 26:28 The yet Agrippa toward the Paul said "In few me thou are persuading a Christian to become"?
     
  13. ChavaK

    ChavaK להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

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    Because it is offensive to Judaism and Jews for those who are
    not Jews, and who hold beliefs that go against Jewish beliefs,
    to call themselves Jews.

    Would it not offend you if, let's say, a Muslim called himself a Christian,
    because he accepts the idea that Jesus is messiah? Especially when
    that is all he has in common with your faith, and his concept of what
    the messiah is is different from what Christianity holds?

    Does it bother you if Mormons call themselves Christians?
     
  14. ChavaK

    ChavaK להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

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    Hey Lamb! :wave:

    Because they do not see themselves as Christians, are offended at
    being called as such....which I still don't understand.

    They can call themselves what they want, as long as it is NOT Jewish,
    or anything related ( "Israelite", "Hebrew")....
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    If I was an Orthodox Jew, I would feel the same way. Shalom. :groupray:

    http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

    Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, 'a father we are having, the Abraham'. For I am saying to ye, that is able, the GOD/YHWH, out of the stones, these, to rouse offspring to the Abraham".

    Luke 16:24 And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--that I am being pained in the flame, this.
     
  16. ChavaK

    ChavaK להיות טוב ולעשות טוב

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    We can change that, LOL
    :wave:
     
  17. GeratTzedek

    GeratTzedek Meaning Righteous Proselyte to Judaism

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    Just for the record, it is important to make distinctions in the messianic world. The messianic forum has always been top heavy with One Law adherents. This is a newer development, and a smaller group. It is considered a dangerous heterodoxy by both the major Messianic Jewish denominations. While Messianic Judaism makes a noted distinction between the status of Jews and gentiles, the One Law movement is frought with its own variety supersessionism. THIS is where they get the notion that they are "Jews."

    Do I find it offensive? Yes, it makes me want to throw up. When I was involved in Messianic Judaism it made me want to throw up. I tried fighting it like crazy in the Messianic forum. I made very clear statements while there that ALL forms of replacement theology were my sore spot, and that any gentile claiming anything beyond the graft metaphor, meaning any gentile claiming to actually be a PART of Israel or to be a Jew, was not only acting dispicably, but supporting a doctrine that nurtures anti-Semitism and leads to the deaths of Jews.

    I'm sure that all rings a bell for those who remember my stint on the forum.

    You will remember, I went so far as to get supersessionism banned. I went through the ropes, asked carefully the proper way to make changes in the wiki to get supersessionism banned. [decided to edit this section out. way too ugly.]

    Why any of you continue to hang out there is beyond me. I consider that forum to be a totally lost cause. I think it's like addiction for y'all! LOL Yeap, ya know its bad fur ya, but you just gotta have that smoke!;)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  18. GeratTzedek

    GeratTzedek Meaning Righteous Proselyte to Judaism

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    This IS what they are SUPPOSED to be doing. And actually it's what most do. It is only the occasional few that step over the boundary and says they are a Messianic Jew. But it happens.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  19. GeratTzedek

    GeratTzedek Meaning Righteous Proselyte to Judaism

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    Cyberlizard's site that he hawks is the worst. I've read that his group claims that baptism makes a gentile into a Jew. Somehow, even though it is a mere handful of people on the internet, it managed to get mentioned on Wikepedia as though it has actual credibility.
     
  20. GeratTzedek

    GeratTzedek Meaning Righteous Proselyte to Judaism

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    It matters to G-d, if you believe Scripture.

    Genesis 17 -- the EVERLASTING Covenant between G-d and Abraham AND HIS DESCENDENTS
    1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. 2 I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers."

    3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." 9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
     
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