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Jesus without sin but not perfect

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by AfterThought, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. AfterThought

    AfterThought Thirst 4 knowledge

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    I really don't know about this one
    I know Jesus was without sin but was he perfect could he be perfect and be human at the same time I know that being the Son of God he was without sin but to be human he would have to have human flaws and not be perfect
    So what's the difference between being perfect and being sinless did he ever stomp his toe on the door when he walked out the outside
    Or better yet when he was a child he ran away to the temple even though he said he was doing the work of God
    To his parents that might have been a mistake just a different perspective
    But I know in the Bible mistakes of Jesus can be hard to find and if not impossible
    Just like a movie that is based on a true story The Bible seems like it always shows the best and the brightest a person can be at that particular moment
    So the question is this could he be sinless and not perfect at the same time or was he both
    Opinions please
     
  2. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Not perfect, but perfected, made perfect.


    he learned obedience from what he suffered;
    and when he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey
     
  3. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    He was both. And we are called to the same, reconciled back...a son revealed through The Son.

    "Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; and having been perfected, He became, unto all them that obey Him, the Author of eternal salvation."

    "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

    "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."

    "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."
     
  4. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi AfterThought, Jesus' perfection involves both His innocence and His righteousness before God, not whether He stubbed His toe or made a mistake or had a misunderstanding.

    He came here to do what God required of us to gain eternal life by, 1. being perfectly innocent of wrongdoing 2. being perfectly righteous/walking in perfect obedience to the will of the Father 3. atoning for our sins by dying in our places on the Cross.

    Yours and His,
    David
     
  5. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    If Jesus was not perfect, wouldn't He have needed a Savior?

    In addition, isn't "sin-less" the equivalent of "perfection"?
     
  6. onjig

    onjig New Member

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    Being perfect is being/doing as God Wishes, he has done and is doing that.

    onjig
     
  7. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a working definition of Perfect in relation to your question, how are you defining it?

    Or are you trying to find out if they are synonyms?

    The stubbing of the toe does tend to sin doesn't it, is that your question?
     
  8. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    I use this verse as example of what is expected of us.

    Mat. 5:48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    There are a few things to be seen here.

    The most obvious is Obedience + Suffering = Perfection.


    This goes for Jesus Heb, 5:8,9 as well as for us 1 Pet. 5:10


    Heb 5:8,9
    8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
    9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    1Pe 5:10
    But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

    The definition shows, Perfection comes about at the completion of a task, or course.

    Mat. 5:18
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    G5046
    τέλειος
    teleios
    tel'-i-os
    From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

    G5056
    τέλος
    telos
    tel'-os
    From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose);
     
  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Newbie

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    He was perfect by God's standard, not only what we can consider to be perfect.

    He was the way humans need to become human. Jesus is compassionate and ready with forgiveness. This is the best way to be human.

    Stomping His toe, I would say, is not an example of what you are asking about.

    This, also, is not at all an example. You can't come up with a real example of Jesus doing what is wrong, because He never did what is wrong :) But we might judge something to be wrong; his parents did not understand who Jesus is and what He was doing.

    Well, I don't know what you mean by this, since we have many cases of the Bible telling us how someone was wrong and did what was wrong. We even have a case where our Apostle Paul points out how Peter and leaders with him did what is very wrong >

    Galatians 2:11-13

    What is most important about Jesus being perfect is how He is, in His character, divine like our Heavenly Father, so He is so pleasing to our Father; and how Jesus loves is much more important than if He did some thing like stubbing His toe or getting away from his parents.
     
  10. LionL

    LionL Believer in God, doubter of religion

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    I don't think so. A 'perfect' person would spend all their time helping others. A 'sinless' person could, if they wished, do nothing.
     
  11. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Thank you for your response.

    I was asking in the context of Jesus the Christ the only begotten Son of the living God.

    Him, not "us".

    Thank you kindly.
     
  12. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is and was and has always been perfect.. He and God are one and thus perfect.. Whilst Jesus had a human body Jesus was God manifested in the flesh and thus perfect...
     
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  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh Hubble telescope saw in empty sky....galaxies! Supporter

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    We understand though that Christ existed with the Father since before the Earth came into being. His spirit became incarnate into a human body, but He was already vastly old.
     
  14. AfterThought

    AfterThought Thirst 4 knowledge

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    I agree with how you put this
     
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