Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists

[wing2000]

Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists who were seeking to profit on sales of religious paraphernalia.

What does this say for Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" who are all money-changers in the church business?

Certainly what they were doing was legal by both the Roman and Jewish (Pharisaical) leadership. Certainly what money-changers today do is legal by US law. But Jesus was very clear about how He felt about it.

This is the trouble our country is in.

This is the trouble within the Church. The country's politicians are simply exploiting those who confuse country with Kingdom.

 

[Halbhh]

Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists who were seeking to profit on sales of religious paraphernalia.

What does this say for Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" who are all money-changers in the church business?

Certainly what they were doing was legal by both the Roman and Jewish (Pharisaical) leadership. Certainly what money-changers today do is legal by US law. But Jesus was very clear about how He felt about it.

This is the trouble our country is in.

Most modern people have never had to handle animals in groups. But I have extensively.

Look:

14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father’s house a house of trade.”


I had to drive a variety of animals at various times (me, as the lone herder often, responsible) --

--Cattle, both individually sometimes, and sometimes as a small herd

--Horses, both individually and sometimes as a small herd

--Pigs (usually individually, but a couple of times I helped with multiple pigs to drive them)

--Chickens (sometimes to scare them off garden vegetables, sometimes to get them into henhouse)

And even once or twice I've been around when other kinds of animals have been herded. Sometimes we helped others. I remember that goats are somewhat contrary.

Ok, get the picture?

We were not supposed to strike them. If you tried to, you'd get corrected. They'd show you how. Hear me?

Striking them was a greenhorn mistake, for about 99% of animals. It would usually backfire. I know this personally, cause I was green and stupid once....

It's what someone who had no clue would do -- hit them. You could tell they needed to learn a few things if they hit any animals. (there are some less common situations, like pushing an animal along a chute towards a slaughter, where it really does know it's very bad to go along the chute, and then it's not at all like herding in an open space. For that, even a prod can be used, if waving a hand won't do it.)

Now....I think Christ Jesus knew shepherds, and was smart.

So, I'm about 99% thinking He did not hit even one. He waved the whip cord in the air, like any competent hand, and they moved, as they normally will.

But for the moneychangers, dove sellers, He overturned their tables, and spoke words to them.


Dear reader, Is that 'violence' to you? You tell me.

It's not what the word 'violence' means to me.

 

[Halbhh]

Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists who were seeking to profit on sales of religious paraphernalia.

What does this say for Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" who are all money-changers in the church business?

Certainly what they were doing was legal by both the Roman and Jewish (Pharisaical) leadership. Certainly what money-changers today do is legal by US law. But Jesus was very clear about how He felt about it.

This is the trouble our country is in.

Because of how weighty and really serious it is to say "Jesus was violent", and how it will be wrongly thought to mean physical attacking, which He did not do, and told Peter to cease, and said "Put away your sword. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword"

Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him. "For all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Therefore it's very serious, and you should use the Thread Tools (then Edit Title)

button at the top of your post #1, and change the title to correct the wording. Because it actually matters a lot!

Your Friend in Christ

 

[Halbhh]

Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists who were seeking to profit on sales of religious paraphernalia.

What does this say for Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" who are all money-changers in the church business?

Certainly what they were doing was legal by both the Roman and Jewish (Pharisaical) leadership. Certainly what money-changers today do is legal by US law. But Jesus was very clear about how He felt about it.

This is the trouble our country is in.

I do know there are too many claiming to be Christian but being worldly and greedy -- and even more serious wrongs -- and it's a profound problem for Christianity in America, especially in the eyes of the lost, many of whom assume what they see in the news, worst examples, is what Christianity must be.

 

[Occams Barber]

Didn't Jesus say something about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Do you (Christians) interpret this as a criticism of capitalism?

OB

 

[ToBeLoved]

My OP wasn't meant to be an indictment against Capitalism per se, but against certain types of capitalism where greed overrules the Will of God. Perhaps a stretch, but I don't think so. But I am enjoying hearing everyone's thoughts and views. Maybe I'm going to learn something (maybe I already have!).

It’s pretty clear by the title what you are indicating

Capitalism didn’t even exist. Very few goods sold.

 

[Speedwell]

It’s pretty clear by the title what you are indicating

Capitalism didn’t even exist. Very few goods sold.

What? You mean that in biblical times all productive capital was owned by the government? There were no private businesses? Where did you get that notion?

 

[ajcarey]

You really can't pin down the Jewish movements of that time to liberal or conservative. It doesn't make any sense. They also weren't making merchandise out of holy things, but selling sacrifices for the Temple. The issue was that they were not charging fair prices.

For anybody interested, the practices were reformed somewhere around 50 C.E. and it got better for the poor. It took a while because powerful Romans were making money off it and it's never easy to go against entrenched powers. Until about 70 when, well, the Temple was destroyed.

The issue was indeed that they were making merchandise of holy things. Not charging fair prices would just add to their sin. Have you not read that Jesus also contended against those carrying things through the Temple?

"15And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 16And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. 17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. " (Mark 11:15-17)

The issue with the Temple cleansing isn't capitalism and it is not mainly unfair prices. God's House is no place to buy or to sell or to even use as a shortcut for personal use. It is to be devoted to God's service and God's honor- not man's commerce and/or convenience for his personal ends. That is it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What? You mean that in biblical times all productive capital was owned by the government? There were no private businesses? Where did you get that notion?

Capitalism is a specific term.

 

[Jonaitis]

Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists who were seeking to profit on sales of religious paraphernalia.

What does this say for Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" who are all money-changers in the church business?

Certainly what they were doing was legal by both the Roman and Jewish (Pharisaical) leadership. Certainly what money-changers today do is legal by US law. But Jesus was very clear about how He felt about it.

This is the trouble our country is in.

Jesus was "violent" because they were turning the temple into a market.

He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.” - Matthew 21:13

 

[NotreDame]

Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists who were seeking to profit on sales of religious paraphernalia.

What does this say for Trump's "Spiritual Advisors" who are all money-changers in the church business?

Certainly what they were doing was legal by both the Roman and Jewish (Pharisaical) leadership. Certainly what money-changers today do is legal by US law. But Jesus was very clear about how He felt about it.

This is the trouble our country is in.

Lol. Making money by sale of something is not per se capitalism.

And Jesus’ conduct you reference wasn’t an indictment of capitalism. You reach that conclusion by taking his actions out of context.

You’re desperate.

 

[NotreDame]

People are required to eat. Exploiting the other party’s lack of bargaining power is typical- arguably even a fundamental part - of capitalism.

It is? Nonsense. Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned, private property exists (accompanied by some underlying theory of acquisition of property) something is produced by the labor of others, sold, exchanged, markets, and capital accumulation. That meaning doesn’t require those acting in a capitalist regime to exploit anything. (I pause here to say you provide no substance to what exploit means or what it looks like).The cause for exploitation is the person doing the exploiting.

 

[NotreDame]

It's about whether Jesus thought that capitalism is the only acceptable economic system, I think. And since those who believe that He did constitute a major faction on the American political scene...

Well, I'll admit it's a stretch.

Except capitalism didn’t exist then, so I’m dubious he gave it much thought then.

 

[NotreDame]

There’s nothing uncapitalist about any of this. Try buying food at Disney World or beer at a concert.

Lol. Except buying and selling is not per se capitalism. But tell me more.

 

[NotreDame]

I didn’t say it wasn’t exploitative. I just said it was capitalist.

Not that it necessarily matters, but I’ve yet to read any material by an economist, historian, Marxist, socialists, who believe selling something, buying something, like food at Disney, is per se capitalist.

 

[NotreDame]

My OP wasn't meant to be an indictment against Capitalism per se, but against certain types of capitalism where greed overrules the Will of God. Perhaps a stretch, but I don't think so. But I am enjoying hearing everyone's thoughts and views. Maybe I'm going to learn something (maybe I already have!).

Now that may have more traction. A much better qualified statement. But I’m still incredulous. Can you tell me what would qualify as “greed overruling the Will of God” look like in a capitalist regime? Is ANY surplus value going to qualify?

 

[NotreDame]

I believe that money changing and the sale of animals for sacrifice was permitted and legal in the Court of the Gentiles. The Temple had its own currency and the money changers took coinage from all over the Empire and converted it to Temple coinage which was then used for the sale of the sacrificial animals. All quite exploitative and very profitable and it also had nothing whatsoever to do with the Pharisees.

What was exploitative?

 

[NotreDame]

Didn't Jesus say something about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Do you (Christians) interpret this as a criticism of capitalism?

OB

Right...because rich men cease to exist anywhere else but capitalist regimes. Jesus comment was about rich men, not the economic system they exist within. There were rich men alive at the time of Jesus when capitalism very much didn’t exist!

 

[NotreDame]

What? You mean that in biblical times all productive capital was owned by the government? There were no private businesses? Where did you get that notion?

Yeah, go ahead, make the argument capitalism existed at the time of Jesus. This should be entertaining.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It is? Nonsense. Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned, something is produced by the labor of others, sold, and money is reinvested in what is produced. That meaning doesn’t require those acting in a capitalist regime to exploit anything. (I pause here to say you provide no substance to what exploit means or what it looks like).The cause for exploitation is the person doing the exploiting.

How about this definition: “make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).”

Market equilibrium is, essentially, the point at which the two parties reach the limits of their bargaining power. When one party gains some sort of bargaining advantage, prices or other terms will typically move in their favor.

Except capitalism didn’t exist then,

Under what economic system were these merchants operating?

Lol. Except buying and selling is not per se capitalism. But tell me more.

Not that it necessarily matters, but I’ve yet to read any material by an economist, historian, Marxist, socialists, who believe selling something, buying something, like food at Disney, is per se capitalist.

That would be a killer rebuttal if it addressed the point I was trying to make.

Yeah, go ahead, make the argument capitalism existed at the time of Jesus. This should be entertaining.

How about you tell us why it didn’t.