Jesus Was The God Men Had Seen In the O.T.

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. before His incarnation.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....

..46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

What did Jesus say?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What was Jesus referring to?

He appeared in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 plus this below.

Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Did He appear to any one else? He appeared to Isaac.

Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

He appeared to Jacob.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

So now you know Jesus had a celestial body before He gave it up to be incarnated, and this was the God men had seen in the O.T.

They did not see the Father because this was written.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jesus has seen the Father but no man has. So the Lord Jesus Christ was the God men had seen in the O.T.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. before His incarnation.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....

..46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

What did Jesus say?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What was Jesus referring to?

He appeared in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 plus this below.

Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Did He appear to any one else? He appeared to Isaac.

Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

He appeared to Jacob.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

So now you know Jesus had a celestial body before He gave it up to be incarnated, and this was the God men had seen in the O.T.

They did not see the Father because this was written.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jesus has seen the Father but no man has. So the Lord Jesus Christ was the God men had seen in the O.T.

It may be worthwhile to interject here, that God need not see time how we do. (The Son of God may be called that from the very beginning, yet it be a reference to his work on earth.) For Christ to appear as a man in ancient times before his life as Jesus seems to me reasonable it should be a simple thing to God, with no contradiction. We can give it fancy names to help our understanding, and that without even being wrong, but I don't think God sees it that way.

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. before His incarnation.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....

..46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

What did Jesus say?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What was Jesus referring to?

He appeared in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 plus this below.

Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Did He appear to any one else? He appeared to Isaac.

Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

He appeared to Jacob.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

So now you know Jesus had a celestial body before He gave it up to be incarnated, and this was the God men had seen in the O.T.

They did not see the Father because this was written.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jesus has seen the Father but no man has. So the Lord Jesus Christ was the God men had seen in the O.T.

Spiritually discerned? That sounds correct.

 

[Albion]

God the Father was seen by certain people in OT times, as scripture teaches, but that was merely the form that the Father assumed for the purpose.

 

[Tone]

Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. before His incarnation.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....

..46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

What did Jesus say?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What was Jesus referring to?

He appeared in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 plus this below.

Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Did He appear to any one else? He appeared to Isaac.

Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

He appeared to Jacob.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

So now you know Jesus had a celestial body before He gave it up to be incarnated, and this was the God men had seen in the O.T.

They did not see the Father because this was written.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jesus has seen the Father but no man has. So the Lord Jesus Christ was the God men had seen in the O.T.

These are good ones too:

Revelation 1:8

And

Revelation 22:12-16

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

God the Father was seen by certain people in OT times, as scripture teaches, but that was merely the form that the Father assumed for the purpose.

How do you take what Jesus has said that no man has seen God the Father, but He has?

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So that is why I discerned the conclusion that it was the Word of God men had seen in the O.T.

 

[Mark Quayle]

How do you take what Jesus has said that no man has seen God the Father, but He has?

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So that is why I discerned the conclusion that it was the Word of God men had seen in the O.T.

Moses saw him too, but only a tiny view, and by that he himself was changed.

What people that "saw" him saw, is hardly the same as seeing him as he is. The strongest, most virtuous man of us would fall apart at seeing God. Would be undone. "I am unclean".

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Moses saw him too, but only a tiny view, and by that he himself was changed.

What people that "saw" him saw, is hardly the same as seeing him as he is. The strongest, most virtuous man of us would fall apart at seeing God. Would be undone. "I am unclean".

Well, He did eat and drink what Abraham had provided for Him in Genesis 18:3-8

I understand about Moses in seeing only a sneak peek of the Lord and it may very well be because he had killed an Egyptian, I don't know, but Moses knew about the Son of God by his encounters before His incarnation to write about Him. John 5:39-47

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ewq1938]

How do you take what Jesus has said that no man has seen God the Father, but He has?

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So that is why I discerned the conclusion that it was the Word of God men had seen in the O.T.

Seen there has nothing to do with visually seeing something.

Clarke:


It is likely that the word seen, here, is put for known, as in Joh_3:32; 1Jo_3:2, 1Jo_3:6, and 3Jo_1:11; and this sense the latter clause of the verse seems to require: - No man, how highly soever favored, hath fully known God, at any time, in any nation or age; the only begotten Son


Many people have seen God:

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Here Jacob not only wrestles with God physically, he also was allowed to see His face and live.


1 Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".

Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts[/U]!”

 

[Albion]

How do you take what Jesus has said that no man has seen God the Father, but He has?

This means that no one whom Jesus had been talking to had seen God the Father. That's all of us humans. Of course it excludes Jesus himself since he was both a Man AND GOD himself.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Seen there has nothing to do with visually seeing something.

Clarke:


It is likely that the word seen, here, is put for known, as in Joh_3:32; 1Jo_3:2, 1Jo_3:6, and 3Jo_1:11; and this sense the latter clause of the verse seems to require: - No man, how highly soever favored, hath fully known God, at any time, in any nation or age; the only begotten Son

Abraham gave food and drink to the Lord and He did eat and drink in Genesis 18th chapter. It has everything to do in seeing something visually. That said, it is not limiting the seeing as if just some vision they were seeing, but physically present in order for the Lord to eat & drink.

I believe it is God the Father in Heaven that has never visited men, but the Son has. And yes, the Son has seen the Father and knows Him too.

Many people have seen God:

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Here Jacob not only wrestles with God physically, he also was allowed to see His face and live.

Unless I am I misunderstanding you at the beginning of your post, you are trying to say that the people that have seen the Lord was not just seeing a vision of Him but they actually saw Him physically.

If that was what you are trying to say in how they knew Him, then I agree.

1 Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Here we see that he does have a face, has a hand, and has "back parts" of a body. Moses was not allowed to see his face, but he saw his hand and saw his "back parts".

Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Isa 6:5 And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts[/U]!”

Yes, the Son has seen the Father and knows Him too, while men have seen the Son and a few have known Him at varying degrees. I can only assume that because Moses had killed a man is why he could not look upon the Lord directly for which the Lord was merciful to him by allowing him to see of Him that he could.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

This means that no one whom Jesus had been talking to had seen God the Father. That's all of us humans. Of course it excludes Jesus himself since he was both a Man AND GOD himself.

Jesus saw God the Father as the Son of God before He became incarnated so it does not exclude Himself.

 

[Albion]

Jesus saw God the Father as the Son of God before He became incarnated so it does not exclude Himself.

The seeing does not exclude Jesus. Quite the opposite. What I said was that the statement he made about no one having seen God excluded himself (for the reason you gave here).

 

[RDKirk]

God the Father was seen by certain people in OT times, as scripture teaches, but that was merely the form that the Father assumed for the purpose.

I generally agree with you on basic theology, but here, no.

In order to be "seen" by a human eye (much less touched by a human hand), the form of God would have to be created in this physical realm.

Colossians 1 tells us that was the Son.

Edit: I see your later posts.

Nevermind.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

The seeing does not exclude Jesus. Quite the opposite. What I said was that the statement he made about no one having seen God excluded himself (for the reason you gave here).

Thank you for pointing my error in reading your reply. We are in agreement then. Thanks.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

I generally agree with you on basic theology, but here, no.

In order to be "seen" by a human eye (much less touched by a human hand), the form of God would have to be created in this physical realm.

Colossians 1 tells us that was the Son.

Edit: I see your later posts.

Nevermind.

When man was created in the image of God, is why He does not need to create a physical image to come into His creation. Since the request for man to be created was to be in "our image", that denotes that the Father as well as the Son as the image of man for which man was fashioned after.

Jesus became incarnated for the purpose of giving His life as a ransom for us. Philippians 2:5-11

 

[Albion]

Theologians generally interpret image and likeness to mean qualities of God, not visual appearance. Those qualities--which distinguish Man from the animals--would be immortality and intelligence (i.e. reasoning ability). I'm not sure how I feel about all of this, but it seems right in principle.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Theologians generally interpret image and likeness to mean qualities of God, not visual appearance. Those qualities--which distinguish Man from the animals--would be immortality and intelligence (i.e. reasoning ability). I'm not sure how I feel about all of this, but it seems right in principle.

They should wonder why the Lord came being seen as the man for the image and likeness we were fashioned after and ate and drank as a man... a celestial man, but we being created in His image as terrestrial man.

 

[Albion]

What's the point about a 'celestial' Man, as opposed to a Man like all of us are?

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

What's the point about a 'celestial' Man, as opposed to a Man like all of us are?

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Before He became incarnated, Jesus had a celestial body. Now that He has risen, that spiritual body through Him, those saints that are worthy shall all inherit as part of the firstfruits of the resurrection when the Bridegroom comes.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another...…….42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.