Jesus was punished for our sins, but are we forgiven?

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,525
8,427
up there
✟306,520.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Do you feel any conviction about any sin you have committed?
That is a roundabout way of saying as Jesus taught, that we must first come to an understanding of the conflict between man's will and the will of God. Having done so, those smart enough prefer God's will of loving all as self over man's will of self interest, having understood how one cancels out the other. From then on, it is a matter of discernment as to how our daily lives represent God's or man's will and choosing to live accordingly
 
Upvote 0

Saint JOHN

Active Member
May 5, 2017
183
71
58
Adelaide
✟20,848.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?


Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

repent ( baby's cant !! man made blasphemous rubbish)
baptism ( greek = dip immerse, etc symbol of burring your old thoughts and ways for Gods !)
receive the Holy Ghost (spirit etc) Gods bit....

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

you will KNOW when this happens !! not fake christianity..!! beware !!!

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

not those that don't , ie do there own ways..

you cant get these (ALL package deal) by wishing and hoping, no matter if you give your heart ,lungs ,kidneys etc whatever to the Lord..one way !! HIS way !!!!!!!!!

Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

same today !! Jesus doesn't change..( man does !! every which way !! just like the children of Israel !)

so beware..no matter how lovey dovey, or smiley or what clown outfits they portray !!
 
Upvote 0

Daniel9v9

Christian Forums Staff
Chaplain
Site Supporter
Jun 5, 2016
1,946
1,724
38
London
Visit site
✟400,885.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
We receive forgiveness of sins once and for all through faith in God and His grace. This faith is specifically trust in the person and works of Jesus Christ. Yet, we also receive forgiveness when we pray to God for forgiveness as seen in the Lord's Prayer, and at Baptism, and in the Eucharist, and in confession and absolution. The point is that, there are not competing ways of being forgiven, or different works of forgiveness, for forgiveness is God's grace and cannot be merited, but rather that as a new creation in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit, we cannot escape God's love, mercy and grace; He forgives us both once and for all and every day. The love of the Lord endures forever!
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,209
2,615
✟884,143.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Do you feel any conviction about any sin you have committed? That conscience is telling you to repent and your soul wants to get closer to the creator. He definitely first loved you. My personal experience was I experienced God’s incredible Love before I was born again.

Thanks for asking. I struggle with a sin yes. Have done most of my Christian life. But it's not only that. I haven't had true peace in my life for a long time. Why I'm not sure. When I think of Christ having forgiven every sin at the cross, I feel peace. I like it to be so, but don't know if it is.

I also have problems with understanding the correlation between works and faith.

God bless,
Peter
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,732
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,528.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Peter,

Knowing you are loved and accepted is foundational.

Do you know you are a child of the promise?

Consider this passage and understand what this means...

Gal:3

23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

If you are in Him, this is who you are.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0

not under law

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2020
428
115
Worcester
✟18,172.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Thanks for asking. I struggle with a sin yes. Have done most of my Christian life. But it's not only that. I haven't had true peace in my life for a long time. Why I'm not sure. When I think of Christ having forgiven every sin at the cross, I feel peace. I like it to be so, but don't know if it is.

I also have problems with understanding the correlation between works and faith.

God bless,
Peter
Paul states the Christian is not under law/they have no righteousness of obeying the law
Sin is the transgression of the law(1John3:4)
So if Jesus did not pay the price of all your sins at the cross, Paul continually made false statements.
Paul believed the power of sin was the law(the power of the law to condemn) 1Cor15:56
So according to Paul, if you believe Jesus did forgive every sin at the cross, you should then sin much less.
BTW
Many of The people who promote sinless living as Christians, would probably suffer from the same sin you do. But in my experience, over decades, they just excuse such sin, or pretend it is not really sin. Your honesty and humility will please God
 
Upvote 0

Gup20

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 11, 2019
654
136
45
Albertville
✟157,738.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
but only the wicked lost - "must sin" because they have no other option.

Romans 8:4-10
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
I don't agree with this Bob. This notion that it is impossible for sinners to do anything but sin rings hollow because we all know and have seen sinners do things that are kind or good at some point.

[Gen 3:22 NASB] 22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

[Rom 2:14-15 NASB] 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,​

Sinners know good and evil - not just evil. If they have the knowledge of good, that means they are able to set their minds on the good things from time to time. That passage in Romans 4 says the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. If people know good and not just evil (which God says they do in Genesis 3:22) then they can at times set their minds on the things of the spirit (love, joy, peace, etc). The problem is they choose not to the majority of the time, and set their minds only on evil continually.
 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
13,905
3,531
✟323,013.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?
The Christian faith involves, for one thing, real change in us-towards righteousness, not simply a non-imputation of sin. Faith, itself, pleases God but only to the extent that it leads to and produces something, and that “something”, to put it most concisely and accurately, is love, the true definition of righteousness for man. So, with this understanding verses such as the following, which directly relates to your question in this case incidentally, really begin to make sense:

“But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
Matt 6:15

Forgiveness brings with it the obligation to walk in God's ways, with His help. First of all we must remain in Him and He in us in order for this to be possible: "Apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). His love and forgiveness are absolute, ever-present; we're the wildcard.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,314
10,596
Georgia
✟909,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I believe everyone sins.

but only the wicked lost - "must sin" because they have no other option.

Romans 8:4-10
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

I don't agree with this Bob. This notion that it is impossible for sinners to do anything but sin rings hollow because we all know and have seen sinners do things that are kind or good at some point.

Their "righteousness is as filthy rags" according to the Bible.
I too have known some polite atheists and non-Christians.

they do not choose to attack all of God's law - only select parts of it. But God says "he who is guilty of one is guilty of all" and in their case outward conformance on a few points does not indicate inward moral character like Christ. Paul is not saying in Romans 8 "all lost people choose to use God's name as a curse word" for example.

In Romans 2 we find that there is the new birth, new covenant work in those who are not Christian -- indicating that they are in fact New Covenant born-again saved saints.

Rom 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
...
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


Thanks for asking. I struggle with a sin yes. Have done most of my Christian life. But it's not only that. I haven't had true peace in my life for a long time. Why I'm not sure. When I think of Christ having forgiven every sin at the cross, I feel peace. I like it to be so, but don't know if it is.

I also have problems with understanding the correlation between works and faith.

God bless,
Peter

The way the Holy Spirit does that confirmation is via the fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5) and the primary one being "peace" according to John 14.

John 14
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) *said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.

1. if the Holy Spirit is not speaking peace to you it may be that He is trying to tell you something about the effect of rebellion or partly-converted half-converted risks. (James 4 -- "friendship with the world is hostility towards God" - set the Internet-surfing and TV aside)
2. If you are not taking the time to "listen" in prayer, Bible reading, meditation then even if you are saved - you won't have that assurance from the Holy Spirit that such is the case.
3. If you do spend time in prayer and are fully committed to following the Holy Spirit's leading - claiming the merits of Christ and keeping your eyes on Jesus... but don't have peace -- it could be that you are fixating on doubt rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to deal with it.

Whichever one of those 3 cases it is... recognize it and deal with it as God leads.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

lsume

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thanks for asking. I struggle with a sin yes. Have done most of my Christian life. But it's not only that. I haven't had true peace in my life for a long time. Why I'm not sure. When I think of Christ having forgiven every sin at the cross, I feel peace. I like it to be so, but don't know if it is.

I also have problems with understanding the correlation between works and faith.

God bless,
Peter
I’m truly sorry to hear about your lack of peace. My wife and I have 4 adult children in the 40’s and 7 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren. Still, the world around me is not in peace. You have made me question if I’m at peace. First I assure you that there is a peace that passes all understanding and a sense of Love and Goodness that is incredible. I’ve experienced this but not for awhile. However I have prayed for Christ to increase my Love for Him and The GodHead. He has answered in great part by God The Father revealing more of Himself to me. I believe you can’t help but Love The GodHead when you have been so Blessed. I have told God The Father that but of course he already knows The Truth of it.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

lsume

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That is a roundabout way of saying as Jesus taught, that we must first come to an understanding of the conflict between man's will and the will of God. Having done so, those smart enough prefer God's will of loving all as self over man's will of self interest, having understood how one cancels out the other. From then on, it is a matter of discernment as to how our daily lives represent God's or man's will and choosing to live accordingly
Perhaps consider that your obedience is a reflection of your faith.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,183
1,809
✟801,217.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jesus said it was the priests.
Matthew 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Good quote and great concept we should remember, but can we really "blame": other people, satan, Adam & Eve, bad luck, and/or God for our being lost?
...the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
 
Upvote 0

Loversofjesus_2018

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2018
653
198
33
West coast
✟32,008.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If you asked the vast majority of Christians if you must be sinless/perfect in your flesh to be a Christian they would respond 'No' for they know no one lives a perfectly sinless life(1John1:8)
However, if you asked the vast majority of Christians if someone could be a Christian if they lived a sinfull lifestyle as a way of life, they would also reply 'No' 1John3:9
There is a huge difference between sin you will commit because you cannot perfectly obey the letter of the law, sin you in your heart do not want because you have been born again, and living a lifestyle of sin without caring about it. Two completely different things.
So if you sin occasionally you are fine but if you sin all the time your not fine. Can you explain the logic here? Is this your opinion?
 
Upvote 0

not under law

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2020
428
115
Worcester
✟18,172.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
So if you sin occasionally you are fine but if you sin all the time your not fine. Can you explain the logic here? Is this your opinion?
No Christian is sinless/perfect in the flesh, so they will commit sin in some way or another.
But there is a big difference between that and being consumed by sin, or enslaved by it, or living a lifestyle of sin. Two very different things
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
13,905
3,531
✟323,013.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
So if you sin occasionally you are fine but if you sin all the time your not fine. Can you explain the logic here? Is this your opinion?
If I may...we'll continue to be tested, to struggle with sin, against the "concupiscence" that draws us to it. And in this test we sort of define ourselves, either oriented towards righteousness and gaining/improving in it overall with the help of grace, by living in the Spirit, or failing and choosing evil in the overall sense, living by the flesh. At the end of the day, God, who judges by the heart, will decide how we've done overall.

I appreciate one teaching I'm familiar with that summarizes this best IMO: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." If fellowship with God, a relationship entered into via faith, hasn't resulted in a degree of love and the kind of fruit that it naturally produces including triumph over the sin that it opposes by its nature, then such faith hasn't availed anything of value.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,525
8,427
up there
✟306,520.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Sin is not a matter of good and evil. Sin is putting human will ahead of the will of God (which is love all including enemy as self. We are all the same) Human will is self serving and often uses both good and evil to meet it's desires, often redefining both to suit man's purposes.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Some versions use robe, some may use cloak. Churches I have gone to always seem to use robe, as in clothed in robes of righteousness.

I used it in relation to.
If someone asks for your ROBE, give him your CLOAK also.
Sam as today.
If someone asks for your Shirt, give him you Coat also.

The use of the Cloak to me is the outermost covering which protects you and you clothes from the elements.
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,209
2,615
✟884,143.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I have come to this conclusion.

1. Jesus bore the sins of all humanity on the cross, IOW, he was "punished" for the sins of all mankind.

2. If we have the Holy Spirit our body was crucified with Jesus, and we are forgiven in him.

3. As long as we have the Holy Spirit we are saved, and will have fruits of the Spirit.

4. Living in sin, not serving God will quench the Holy Spirit and we will be cut off the vine and sorted out with all other bad fish.

Matthew 7:17
So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit

Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?
You were forgiven when you asked for forgiveness. The debt was paid when he died on the cross and rose again... But you have to accept the payment for it to be applied to your account. After all lots of people know about Jesus, but refuse to humble themselves enough to confess.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0