Jesus was punished for our sins, but are we forgiven?

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?

All have sinned and do sin. Jesus' death and resurrection provided the way to salvation.

After receiving Jesus as one's Lord and Savior ... asking Him to come into your life ....

One needs to ask for forgiveness and repent when they sin ... this is a continuous process throughout our lifetime .... a continuous relationship with Christ, and Him working in the believer ... being conformed into His image over the course of our lifetime here on earth.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: JIMINZ
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I believe everyone sins.

You would be correct up to a point.
Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom. 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

But a Regenerated Believer becomes Dead To Sin, upon his Regeneration into Newness of life.

Rom. 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:8-11
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I ask.
Is a person who has died physically and is in the Grave, capable of sinning?
A person who is a Believer and has Been Baptized into Newness of life, by the Regeneration of the Holy Spirit has Died to the Flesh and become alive to the Spirit......Jesus said concerning being Born Again (Regenerated)

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Do you mean a born again believer's wrong doing isn't counted as sin? I wouldn't agree to that.

Exactly that.

A Regenerated Believer becomes Dead To The Law, upon his Regeneration into Newness of life.

Rom. 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal. 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Rom. 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Php. 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


I don't know how to understand 1 John 3:9.

The only way to understand it would be to, Read the entire portion where this is being taught in it's full context, (not just a verse here and there posted by me) then believe what it says literally, or the whole thing is a lie.

1Jn 3:1-10
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Lastly:

Rom 8:1-4
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The two verses in RED coinscide with each other the one from 1 John 3:* and the other from Romans 8:3.

Jesus died to DESTROY SIN in the Flesh.

When we died to the Flesh during our Regeneration by the Holy Spirit, we died to sin, we did not die Physically, we are still alive in out Mortal Body, but the Flesh, (The Old Man) is dead unto sin by Jesus sacrifice.

This verse in RED coincides with the other two.

Rom. 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
 
Upvote 0

Bruce Leiter

A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love
Jun 16, 2018
782
551
81
West Michigan
Visit site
✟56,865.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?

As is often the case with the Bible, the answer is "both/and." In other words, when you and I come to believe in and begin following Jesus, his death justifies us for all our sins from our conception to our death. That courtroom word "justification" means that God the Father, our just Judge, declares us legally not-guilty and in right standing with him (Romans 3:21--5:2). Read that whole passage in Romans to understand God's justification of believers. Remember that it is a legal, courtroom term.

He then gives us our new birth (John 3:3) along with faith and repentance completely by grace (Ephesians 2:1-10). But sin still remains in our sinful nature, though that nature no longer dominates our lives but can tempt us (Romans 7:15-25).

As a result, God cleanses that remaining sin in us daily with our cooperation by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Look at John 13. After Jesus washes his followers' feet, he tells them that since they have taken a bath, they only need their feet washed. He is using a metaphor or comparison with the meaning that God washes us by justifying us completely when we believe but that we need daily cleansing from our sins for our daily spiritual progress, even though God has pronounced his verdict of "not guilty" over us once and for all.
 
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
9,850
1,708
58
New England
✟484,381.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hey, I am blessed by your exchange...

The mystery and beauty of the cross is rarely expressed.

Thank you.


Good Day, Carl

I am a big fan of Luther's Theology of the Cross... I think it is beautiful indeed.

IN Him,


Bill
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Man gained the knowledge of good and evil. We can't unlearn it but rather than dwell on it or one or the other, we can move on seeing neither the good or evil in others but seeing them as ourselves, and having removed the log from our own eye, see ourselves for who we are. An extension of God, not a separate entity whose self awareness has blinded us to our true nature.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I believe everyone sins.

but only the wicked lost - "must sin" because they have no other option.

Romans 8:4-10
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I like using metaphores and similies to simplify things.

Think of it like a coat. When Jesus died on the cross He gave us all a coat. When we are saved we put the coat on.

How about we all put on a coat of sin through Adams Fall, and in Christ we take off the Coat of sin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
Supporter
Jul 1, 2013
9,199
8,425
Gotham City, New Jersey
✟308,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?
A good question. This is another reason why I don't believe in Penal Substitutionary Atonement.

Besides, Him "being punished for our sins" isn't forgiveness in any logical sense of the word.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
A good question. This is another reason why I don't believe in Penal Substitutionary Atonement.

Besides, Him "being punished for our sins" isn't forgiveness in any logical sense of the word.

How about the fact Jesus wasn't just punished for our sins, but actually bought both you and your sins with His Sinless life, which is the only price which would pay for those sins.

Eph. 1:14
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1 Co.6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Co. 7:23
Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,163
1,805
✟794,962.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?
This is not really understood by most Christians because of preconceived ideas.

You would probably agree with me in saying: “God has both the power and Love to forgive the sinner of his/her sins and would need no help to do so”.

It would not be logical or fair to say: God forgives your sins 100% and Christ paid for your sins 100%?

If the sins are paid for there is nothing to forgive and if the sins are forgiven there is nothing to pay.

God forgives our sins 100% and no payment is being made to God.

There is this unbelievable huge “ransom payment” being made: Jesus, Peter, Paul, john and the author of Hebrews all describe it as an actual ransom scenario and not just “like a ransom scenario”. And we can all agree on: the payment being Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder, the Payer being God/Christ, the child being set free (sinners going to God), but have a problem with: “Who is the kidnapper”? If there is no kidnapper than the ransom scenario does not fit, so who is the kidnapper?

Some people try to make God the receiver of the payment, which is call God the kidnapper of His own children which is crazy.

Some people say satan is the kidnapper, but that would mean God is paying satan when God has the power to safely take anything from satan and it would be wrong for God to pay His satan.

Some say it is an intangible like death, evil, sin, or nothing, but you would not pay a huge payment to an intangible?

There is one very likely kidnapper and that is the person holding a child back from entering the Kingdom to be with God. When we go to the nonbeliever, we are not trying to convince them of an idea, a book, a doctrine or theology, but to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified (which is described as the ransom payment). If the nonbeliever accepts the ransom payment (Jesus Christ) there is a child released to go to the Father, but if the nonbeliever refuses to accept Jesu Christ and Him crucified a child is kept out of the Kingdom. Does this all sounds very much like a kidnapping scenario?

There is a lot more to say about this, but this is an introduction.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GirdYourLoins

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,220
929
Brighton, UK
✟122,682.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How about we all put on a coat of sin through Adams Fall, and in Christ we take off the Coat of sin.
No. You have it the wrong way around. To make it more biblical change the word coat to robe. here are a few examples.
Job 29:14
Isaiah 61:10
2 Corinthians 5:21
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
There is one very likely kidnapper and that is the person holding a child back from entering the Kingdom to be with God.
Jesus said it was the priests.
Matthew 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 
Upvote 0

lsume

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
WERE we forgiven?

It's something I have been thinking about.

Was I allready forgiven before I came to faith, I just hadn't received it, or was I first forgiven when I repented and came to faith?

Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?

What does the Bible say?
Do you feel any conviction about any sin you have committed? That conscience is telling you to repent and your soul wants to get closer to the creator. He definitely first loved you. My personal experience was I experienced God’s incredible Love before I was born again.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
WERE we forgiven?
I just hadn't received it


Why do we Christians return to ask for forgiveness if everything is allready forgiven, if you know what I mean?
We need to ask. It is a relational thing, though in His heart God is already interested in us knowing we are forgiven. There is repenting needed . . . so we change from however we have been sinning.

And it helps to forgive others, because Jesus wants us to forgive. As we give loving and caring forgiveness, we enjoy and benefit in living in God's caringly forgiving love.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums