Jesus - was he a Jew?

[ewq1938]

Um, the Leviticus passage applies only to priests; as to the Deuteronomy passage, why would you think a convert would be considered illegitimate?

I don't. I said a convert is not genetically Jewish despite the custom (not scripture) to consider them Jewish.

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry but Strongs got that one wrong.

Or he got it right and you are wrong?

 

[Dave-W]

If the Strongs definition of momzer was correct, then how was it applied to Jesus?

 

[ewq1938]

If the Strongs definition of momzer was correct, then how was it applied to Jesus?

It isn't.

 

[tulc]

How could the descendant of a "bastard" be made King if he wasn't even able to enter the congregation of the Lord? Obviously David either was not within 10 generations or the product of incest is not the actual meaning of mamzer.

...or those Scriptures aren't as cut and dry as you'd like to believe they are.
tulc(might also point out that when the Bible says "unto 10 generations" it really meant never)

 

[tulc]

It isn't.

...well...except for the several people who fit the momzer definition that were contained in the lineage of Jesus of course.
tulc(wonders why this matters so much)

 

[ewq1938]

...or those Scriptures aren't as cut and dry as you'd like to believe they are.
tulc(might also point out that when the Bible says "unto 10 generations" it really meant never)

No, it doesn't mean forever unless "forever" is also mentioned in addition.


Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Not forever.

Deu 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

Forever.

Gill:

even unto his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord; which seems as if he might at the eleventh; but it is generally interpreted never, as is gathered from the following verse, and from the tenth number being an absolute and perfect one; yet according to the Jewish writers there were ways and means by which their posterity became legitimate; so they say, bastards may be purified (or legitimated), how? if one marries a servant maid, the child is a servant, who if he becomes free, (his) son is a free man

 

[ewq1938]

...well...except for the several people who fit the momzer definition that were contained in the lineage of Jesus of course.
tulc(wonders why this matters so much)

Not within ten generations and not a true mamzer either.

 

[tulc]

No, it doesn't mean forever unless "forever" is also mentioned in addition.


Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Not forever.

Deu 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:

Forever.

Gill:

even unto his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord; which seems as if he might at the eleventh; but it is generally interpreted never, as is gathered from the following verse, and from the tenth number being an absolute and perfect one; yet according to the Jewish writers there were ways and means by which their posterity became legitimate; so they say, bastards may be purified (or legitimated), how? if one marries a servant maid, the child is a servant, who if he becomes free, (his) son is a free man

Well I could post the places where the Rabbi's said the thing about "unto 10 generations" meaning forever but to what end? You'd come back with your guys and then we'd start the whole circus all over again. How about we cut to the chase and you tell us all why you really really want those Scriptures (even in light of the ones that show your view to not be true) to be true. I can see you have a point you want to make but you just seem to be trying to back into it without having to come right out and say it, so let's have it please.
tulc(doesn't want to derail this thread any more over this)

 

[ewq1938]

Well I could post the places where the Rabbi's said the thing about "unto 10 generations" meaning forever but to what end? You'd come back with your guys and then we'd start the whole circus all over again. How about we cut to the chase and you tell us all why you really really want those Scriptures (even in light of the ones that show your view to not be true) to be true.

You haven''t disproven anything and since we are both Christian "my guys" are your guys too. You mention disrailing and it's gotten that far already so this is done as far as I am concerned.

 

[tulc]

You haven''t disproven anything and since we are both Christian "my guys" are your guys too. You mention disrailing and it's gotten that far already so this is done as far as I am concerned.

As you will.
tulc(we now return this thread to it's regularly scheduled subject)

 

[Dave-W]

It isn't.

Of course it is . In the Talmud.

Remember when the Pharisees said they did not know who His father was?

 

[ewq1938]

Of course it is . In the Talmud.

Can you cite what you are referring to?

Remember when the Pharisees said they did not know who His father we Should?

Of course.

 

[The Lone Ranger]

But, the Jew comes first. It says "to the Jew first, then the Gentile". If all Christians were on Fire for Jehova they would do as HE did, and recognize Jehova's feasts. Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb, At Passover, not Easter. Doesn't Jesus say that "since you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth"?

 

[ewq1938]

But, the Jew comes first. It says "to the Jew first, then the Gentile". If all Christians were on Fire for Jehova they would do as HE did, and recognize Jehova's feasts.

No, that would make them very confused about what religion they actually followed.

Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb, At Passover, not Easter.

True.....so? Most Christians have errors in their theology.

Doesn't Jesus say that "since you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth"?

Yes. Lukewarm regarding Christianity, not Judaism.

 

[The Lone Ranger]

No, that would make them very confused about what religion they actually followed.




True.....so? Most Christians have errors in their theology.




Yes. Lukewarm regarding Christianity, not Judaism.

Matthew 5:17-20

 

[ewq1938]

Matthew 5:17-20

All things were completed in regard to the first coming of the Messiah which means the law did pass away for a new law and a new covenant. Messianics typically misunderstand this.

Paul explains:

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1



Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13



the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56



the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15



we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6



we are not under the law- Romans 6:15



we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

 

[The Lone Ranger]

All things were completed in regard to the first coming of the Messiah which means the law did pass away for a new law and a new covenant. Messianics typically misunderstand this.

Paul explains:

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1



Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13



the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56



the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15



we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6



we are not under the law- Romans 6:15



we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

According to Paul then, only certain parts of the law remained intact. Romans 1 says homosexuality is bad. Did he leave out inappropriate behavior with animals? If so, does it make it ok? The 1st Testament says Israel went into the Land of Canaan to destroy those there that had been corrupted. They had issues with marriage, and so forth.I see that Paul wrote that, but did Yeshua say it? Paul actually taught in the Temple, and did the Feasts.

 

[ewq1938]

hey had issues with marriage, and so forth.I see that Paul wrote that, but did Yeshua say it?

Do you think there is a difference between Paul and Christ?

Paul actually taught in the Temple, and did the Feasts.

The NT is clear he did no such thing. Paul was a Christian, no less!

 

[The Lone Ranger]

Acts 21:17-26 Paul took a Nazarite vow. Paul followed Torah, and was not against The Commandments. Jesus midrashed in the Temple as a child.