Jesus - was he a Jew?

[ewq1938]

Dare we call the sign of a covenant an imperfection?

A resulting scar is.

 

[ewq1938]

While it is true that all the evangelists and apostles were ethnically Jews, they were inspired to write as Christians.

Exactly. Too many people are focused on race when God no longer favors one over the other. All are equal in the eyes of God when they follow Jesus Christ as Messiah. We are to be one as the Father and son are one which means all Christians are of the same mind and spirit, or should be.

 

[twob4me]

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[witness of G]

For myself,the new covenant will be fulfilled at my resurrection. Now it is a promise and a preparation by faith. As long I am condemned to die (justly, I accept that), the Sinaic covenant remains relevant.

 

[ewq1938]

For myself,the new covenant will be fulfilled at my resurrection. Now it is a promise and a preparation by faith. As long I am condemned to die (justly, I accept that), the Sinaic covenant remains relevant.

Except the Sinai covenant is null and void. It's only current relevance is historical.

Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[witness of G]

We do not agree about the frame time of when this irrelevance will take place. Have you already the benefit of eternal life and not going to die. Unless proof to the contrary, I do not think so.

 

[Stan Ley]

According to Judaism, you’re not a Jew unless your mother is a Jew.

Jesus is the son of David

David is the son of Jesse

Jesse is the son Obed

Obed is the son of Ruth who was a Moabite and not a Jew.

So Jesus cant possibly be a Jew.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Mary was Jewish.

Ruth was in Joseph's line.

 

[ewq1938]

According to Judaism, you’re not a Jew unless your mother is a Jew.

Jesus is the son of David

David is the son of Jesse

Jesse is the son Obed

Obed is the son of Ruth who was a Moabite and not a Jew.

So Jesus cant possibly be a Jew.

H4125
מואבית / מואביּה / מואבי
mô'âbı̂y / mô'âbı̂yâh / mô'âbı̂yth
BDB Definition:
Moabite = “from father: what father?”
1) an citizen of Moab
2) an inhabitant of the land of Moab
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: patronymical from H4124
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1155a

A Jew who lived in the land of Moab was called a Moabite. Ruth was a Jew because her descendants were Jewish.

To say Jesus wasn't a Jew is to say David wasn't.

 

[tulc]

According to Judaism, you’re not a Jew unless your mother is a Jew.

Jesus is the son of David

David is the son of Jesse

Jesse is the son Obed

Obed is the son of Ruth who was a Moabite and not a Jew.

So Jesus cant possibly be a Jew.

So...King David wasn't Jewish either?
tulc(suspects it's going to be hard to convince the Jews of that)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Ruth was a convert, so yes Ruth was Jewish.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Lone Ranger]

John Courson via radio last week said Mary came from the descendant of David, through a son called Nathan. It might have been Soloman's son. Joseph's lineage through David had a curse on it at one point, so Jesus didn't want to use his side of the family.

 

[AndyLondon]

According to Judaism, you’re not a Jew unless your mother is a Jew.

Jesus is the son of David

David is the son of Jesse

Jesse is the son Obed

Obed is the son of Ruth who was a Moabite and not a Jew.

So Jesus cant possibly be a Jew.

Except that Ruth was a convert. Your people shall be my people and your God shall be my God.

 

[Dave-W]

I have come across these arguments before. That all "Jews" today are kazars and not real Jews. Horse hockey. Even if many are of kazari decent, the fact that their ancestors converted to Judaism makes them fully Jews.

The idea that Jews wanted to identify with Christ is beyond ludicrous.

More problematic is the assertion that the reason for the virgin birth was so that Jesus would not have one drop of Jewish blood in Him. (from certain 19th century German theologians) It is disproved from Galatians:

Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

 

[Dave-W]

Except that Ruth was a convert.

So what? A convert is as fully Jewish as someone directly descended from Moses or David.

 

[Dave-W]

John Courson via radio last week said Mary came from the descendant of David, through a son called Nathan.

All we actually know of Mary's lineage was she was a very close relative of Elizabeth (mother of John the Baptist) and she was "a daughter of Aaron." That would make Mary a Levite of Aaron's line as well, NOT from Judah and the Davidic line.

 

[ewq1938]

So what? A convert is as fully Jewish as someone directly descended from Moses or David.

Converts are Jews only in a religious sense not in a genealogical sense.

 

[Dave-W]

Converts are Jews only in a religious sense not in a genealogical sense.

And that does not matter. Torah says that the convert is to be considered the same as a native born Jew.

 

[ewq1938]

And that does not matter. Torah says that the convert is to be considered the same as a native born Jew.

Being considered the same still doesn't change that one is ethnically a gentile while religiously a Jew. (or vice versa, an Ethnic Jew who is religiously a Christian)

Torah says that the convert is to be considered the same as a native born Jew.

And where does the Torah say that? I have heard of this before but have never seen the scripture reference.

 

[Dave-W]

And where does the Torah say that? I have heard of this before but have never seen the scripture reference.

http://jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/374/374_sifra.pdf

one is ethnically a gentile while religiously a Jew.

According to Torah and talmudic Jewish law, that is NEVER supposed to happen. Your ethnicity changes upon formal conversion.

or vice versa, an Ethnic Jew who is religiously a Christian

An issue my faith community deals with on a daily basis. Jews that "convert" and become either Messianic or traditional Christians are often considered no longer Jews either religiously or ethnically by the traditional Jewish community.