Jesus v the archons?

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Am I correct in thinking that the god Yahweh of the exodus etc. was a creation of the archons, and that Jesus was on a mission to expose this jealous, angry Yahweh? What are archons? Of late I have been thinking that this murderous psychopath, Yahweh, cannot be God, but was an imposter.

Previously I thought that it was due to the writers of the OT writing in their own Bronze Age mentality, of violence, lack of compassion, lack of love etc.

I am moving towards these ideas of late, although it might be heretical to think these things, but i think we need to be free to have questions, although i would keep it quiet usually.

What do you think?

 

[g_n_o_s_i_s]

Am I correct in thinking that the god Yahweh of the exodus etc. was a creation of the archons, and that Jesus was on a mission to expose this jealous, angry Yahweh? What are archons? Of late I have been thinking that this murderous psychopath, Yahweh, cannot be God, but was an imposter.

Previously I thought that it was due to the writers of the OT writing in their own Bronze Age mentality, of violence, lack of compassion, lack of love etc.

I am moving towards these ideas of late, although it might be heretical to think these things, but i think we need to be free to have questions, although i would keep it quiet usually.

What do you think?

Yahweh is an unbalanced emanation of Sophia and stands above the Archons. I guess one can call him the head of the Archons or head Archon, but there seem to be a distinction between YHWH and the Archons he creates.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Yeah, YHWH - Yaldabaoth was the father and chief of the archons. The archons are beings of ignorance, sleep, and psychological disorder that seem to be ruled by unconscious drives for power and domination. Out of their ignorance evil often arises. They are jealous of humanity because of our divine spark and they try to keep us hypnotized and asleep so that we do not correct our mistakes and so that we come to lack a high level of awareness. They are beings of a psychic rather than spiritual nature. They may have strong powers of logical thought but lack imagination or inspiration. They are often described as reptilian in nature, or locust like, and in more modern times as robotic machine beings. They are alien inorganic forms of life that often have a parasitic relation to man. The grey aliens of UFO lore are good example.

There is at least one exception with the archons though. That is IAO who is also known as, little Iao, Abraxas, Abrasax, Sabaoth, and The Good. It seems that this archon, who was the offspring of YHWH (Yaldabaoth the demiurge) actually had a spiritual spark as well and that he was won over to the cause of Christ and universal redemption. This being also incarnated in the body of John the Baptist (along with the soul of the Prophet Elias) according the Scripture called the Pistis Sophia.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

Yes, YHWH is basically the first archon.

Part of Christ's mission was to free us from the control of the archons, as it is our duty now.

From the time I was 10 years old I could tell a serious difference between YHWH and Christ, and was always baffled by how they could possibly be so different. I was always told that there "is no difference" which is obviously a lie. It came as no shock to me to find that some of the earliest Christians felt the same way.

However, I don't know how literally you want to consider YHWH as an actual entity. I'm more of the opinion that YHWH is simply a false image of God. He doesn't actually exist outside of people's minds and Bibles.

 

[gord44]

There is at least one exception with the archons though. That is IAO who is also known as, little Iao, Abraxas, Abrasax, Sabaoth, and The Good. It seems that this archon, who was the offspring of YHWH (Yaldabaoth the demiurge) actually had a spiritual spark as well and that he was won over to the cause of Christ and universal redemption. This being also incarnated in the body of John the Baptist (along with the soul of the Prophet Elias) according the Scripture called the Pistis Sophia.

Interesting take on Abraxas for sure.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Yes, YHWH is basically the first archon.

Part of Christ's mission was to free us from the control of the archons, as it is our duty now.

From the time I was 10 years old I could tell a serious difference between YHWH and Christ, and was always baffled by how they could possibly be so different. I was always told that there "is no difference" which is obviously a lie. It came as no shock to me to find that some of the earliest Christians felt the same way.

However, I don't know how literally you want to consider YHWH as an actual entity. I'm more of the opinion that YHWH is simply a false image of God. He doesn't actually exist outside of people's minds and Bibles.

i dont know how real yahweh was, but his activities are recorded, i suppose they could have made it all up.. burning people up because they offered the wrong kind of fire, for eg.

but what about the prophesies about jesus.. jesus believed in that, and they came via the prophets. to my mind, some of the psalms seem to be inspired, and perhaps the real god was working throught the hebrews? they were a unique people, wern't they?

 

[Ishraqiyun]

At the very least he exists as a mind parasite in the collective human psyche (the Jungian collective unconscious) but I believe he also exists outside that as well. I view him as an alien parasite. In some ways he is related to us in that he is also a child of Sophia but he is a mistake and is very dysfunctional. He isn't a human or a figment of our imagination that's for sure.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I should let people know that I'm not accusing all orthodox Christians of worshiping a mind parasite so don't take that away from what I've been saying. Many Christians use the word "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" but actually worship a God of love, compassion, forgiveness, etc... In fact some people I would consider full blown modern Gnostics like Boehme and Swedenborg used the name Jehovah to represent the Father of Jesus and it's obvious from their writings that they did worship the actual Father and that they merely attached an unfortunate name to him because of past Christian tradition. They also used allegorical, spiritual, imaginal exegesis of the OT to de-evil the being it often describes and turn him into the Father. It's like the hijacked evil for good so I'm down with that.

 

[Xpistis sopheiaX]

i dont know how real yahweh was, but his activities are recorded, i suppose they could have made it all up.. burning people up because they offered the wrong kind of fire, for eg.

but what about the prophesies about jesus.. jesus believed in that, and they came via the prophets. to my mind, some of the psalms seem to be inspired, and perhaps the real god was working throught the hebrews? they were a unique people, wern't they?

I think Marcion believed that our real God and a false God existed simultaneously in the OT. So when God speaks to us it was the real God, when God murders people it was the false one.

It's a real mess to untangle and I don't know that I have a good answer. However I feel like everywhere you look for God there is always a demi-urge hiding, so it's best to be careful.

When it comes to prophecy, Soulgazer, I believe has said before that Christ came to reveal the true God by fulfilling the prophecies of a false god.

I think that is a pretty interesting take. Anymore I just mostly believe that God speaks through men and writings, and anytime those things become corrupted it becomes the demi-urge.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I know some of the Gnostics thought that Sophia would sometime channel positive teachings through the demiurge to some of the OT prophets too. She was good at pulling his strings. That being the case some of the OT was actual divine revelation, some of it was teaching from the demiurge (especially the violent ,jealous, and genocidal aspects), and some of it was merely human imagination. Overall it's a must read though. I read the OT a lot.

 

[Ecclectic79]

There might be an alternate explanation. When you read the stories of Genesis from the tribe of Jacob on downward it sounds like the people of those times were living a life that would be a bit similar to what we'd think of the movie Kids. It also seems like, from Exodus on through 2 Kings/2 Chronicles, you get a very white-washed sense of what was happening in that you see Yahweh's aggressive/vigorous actions but you get a very sanitized sense of what the people were doing. In so many ways we fill in the gaps with our current western culture and just about imagine these people just kicking it and living in peace and generosity just to be killed in huge swaths by an unprovoked/irrational deity. I had that impression as I read through, felt deeply sickened during certain parts of Numbers, however a lot of this euphemism starts getting cleared up in Jeremiah and especially Ezekiel where you start getting some details of magnitude regarding just what was happening.

The claim is also made, to add to that, no one has ever seen or spoken to God the father. When you look at it that way the same entity that showed up on the sapphire throne to meet Moses, the deity who told Moses that no one could see his face therefore he was hidden in a crevice and got to see his back, the deity who Ezekiel met on the sapphire throne with four cherubim and four ophanim (wheel angels), and yes - the same deity who made vivid examples of many of the Israelites in the desert and also flattened about 70,000 after David's census - was the pre-incarnate Christ.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

i cant see how any god of love and compassion would zap people to death with a firebolt, and then give the same people eternal life.. that dosn't add up.

 

[g_n_o_s_i_s]

I think Marcion believed that our real God and a false God existed simultaneously in the OT. So when God speaks to us it was the real God, when God murders people it was the false one.

I think you are absolutely correct in this. Marcion probably taught that Jesus was a power somehow attached to Elohim in the Old Testament. You were born under YHWH but as you wrestled with him you come to switch "Gods" to Elohim/Christ.

When it comes to prophecy, Soulgazer, I believe has said before that Christ came to reveal the true God by fulfilling the prophecies of a false god.

The Jesus prophesies are not really prophesies as we understand them. They are types, shadows if you will. You even find the types in prophesies totally unrelated to Christ. I think this is where the Gnostics saw the True God directing the Demiurge unknowingly with regards to "prophesies" about Jesus.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I think this is where the Gnostics saw the True God directing the Demiurge unknowingly with regards to "prophesies" about Jesus

That's my understanding as well. Sophia is the queen of metis. She can trick old Yaldy himself into revealing truths.

 

[g_n_o_s_i_s]

The claim is also made, to add to that, no one has ever seen or spoken to God the father. When you look at it that way the same entity that showed up on the sapphire throne to meet Moses, the deity who told Moses that no one could see his face therefore he was hidden in a crevice and got to see his back, the deity who Ezekiel met on the sapphire throne with four cherubim and four ophanim (wheel angels), and yes - the same deity who made vivid examples of many of the Israelites in the desert and also flattened about 70,000 after David's census - was the pre-incarnate Christ.

This is a scary thought. Jesus one minute demanding death for a poor stick picker the next moment he defends his disciples for the same offence. The idea that Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament makes him a hypocrite extraordinaire.

 

[Ecclectic79]

Probably the scariest thing Jesus ever said was John 6:44. That had me questioning for a while whether the fourth gospel wasn't some neoplatonist up to mischief. Apparently Irenaeus and Polycarp trusted it.

 

[g_n_o_s_i_s]

Probably the scariest thing Jesus ever said was John 6:44. That had me questioning for a while whether the fourth gospel wasn't some neoplatonist up to mischief. Apparently Irenaeus and Polycarp trusted it.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

That is the scariest thing Jesus ever said (as Jesus and/or YHWH)?

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

That is the scariest thing Jesus ever said (as Jesus and/or YHWH)?

i think its true. didn't jesus say that no one knows the father except jesus?

 

[Ecclectic79]

i think its true. didn't jesus say that no one knows the father except jesus?

To a lot of people (including me at a given time) it amounts to a predestiny/predeterminism clause and it makes the absolute justice and mercy of the Lord a much more confusing concept to explore if as such you have an elect and non-elect to the extent which would be the equivalent of, for gnostics, saying that there are pneumatics and hylics but unequivocally no psychics. That's where we're somewhat left to connect the dots. Given god is infinitely just, then given such a saying, we're left to try out whatever constants we can place on the other side of the equals sign that might make it fit and not clash with scripture already written.

 

[g_n_o_s_i_s]

i think its true. didn't jesus say that no one knows the father except jesus?

I don't see what is so scary about it. There are far worse statements made by Jesus as his alter ego, YHWH.