Jesus Sinless

[NoahSK]

Hey guys, I haven't posted on here awhile, but something's come up that's caused me some distress. So I was reading the Bible and stuff and came upon the verses where Joseph and Mary left Jesus behind in the temple or whatever. For some reason, reading it made me think that Jesus didn't honor His mother and father in that moment (it kinda sounded that way) and it made me start to doubt a little I think, because if Jesus sinned in that moment, everything we know about about Him is false. Anyway, I looked the verses up to see if I could find something to explain it. In so doing, I stumbled upon an article explaining a whole other set of verses that made it look kind of like Jesus lied, and reading that made me doubt even more, and now I have this thought in my head that Jesus sinned, and it feels like I'm starting to believe it or already believe it. I try to fight and get rid of the thought, but it doesn't work. I can't get thr thought of Jesus sinning out of my head. While ruminating this around in my head, several times I said out loud and thought "Jesus did sin" and I didn't even react. I don't know if I knew what I was saying, or if I was really convinced that Jesus did sin, but it took me a while before I realized what I said and I immediately became concerned. I'm still worried that deep down I believe that Jesus sinned. I keep trying to tell myself that Jesus didn't sin, but I keep having the urge to say that Jesus did sin, and as I've said it's actually come out of my mouth a few times. This is so weird. I'm worried that I actually believe that Jesus sinned. Even after looking up articles and stuff that proved that Jesus didn't sin, it's like my mind won't accept them and continues to doubt/believe that Jesus sinned. This makes no sense. I don't know if this is OCD or not, but it feels really real and won't go away. It feels like deep down I really believe this, even though I've tried convincing myself the opposite. I don't know what to do.

 

[Christ is Lord]

The verses that made it seem like Jesus 'lied' is correct. Jesus did use misdirection as it seems on the surface but that isn't always a sin. There are passages in the OT in which God does you misdirection today, we would classify those as lies but the 10 commandants doesn't condemn people from lying per se. It's more in the context of a legal setting in which bearing false witness could hamper the course of justice.

 

[Christ is Lord]

So I was reading the Bible and stuff and came upon the verses where Joseph and Mary left Jesus behind in the temple or whatever. For some reason, reading it made me think that Jesus didn't honor His mother and father in that moment (it kinda sounded that way) and it made me start to doubt a little I think, because if Jesus sinned in that moment, everything we know about about Him is false.

The ten commandments never defined what honoring your parents actually looks like. Also, in a case like that Jesus was doing God's work and will and that always comes before our parents.

This is so weird. I'm worried that I actually believe that Jesus sinned. Even after looking up articles and stuff that proved that Jesus didn't sin, it's like my mind won't accept them and continues to doubt/believe that Jesus sinned. This makes no sense. I don't know if this is OCD or not, but it feels really real and won't go away. It feels like deep down I really believe this, even though I've tried convincing myself the opposite. I don't know what to do.

I will pray for you, Noah. Jesus didn't sin and you can trust what the Bible says. God bless

 

[NoahSK]

The verses that made it seem like Jesus 'lied' is correct. Jesus did use misdirection as it seems on the surface but that isn't always a sin. There are passages in the OT in which God does you misdirection today, we would classify those as lies but the 10 commandants doesn't condemn people from lying per se. It's more in the context of a legal setting in which bearing false witness could hamper the course of justice.

I don't think this is right. Misdirection is still deception, which God hates. God can never lie. The first lie ever told was by the devil in the garden and was used to turn Adam and Eve against God. When the enemy lies, he speaks his natural language. I don't think Jesus would have lied, as God wouldn't have lied either.

 

[Christ is Lord]

16 The Lord said to Samuel, “How long will you grieve over Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil, and go. I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite, for I have provided for myself a king among his sons.” 2 And Samuel said, “How can I go? If Saul hears it, he will kill me.” And the Lord said, “Take a heifer with you and say, ‘I have come to sacrifice to the Lord.’ 3 And invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what you shall do. And you shall anoint for me him whom I declare to you.” 4 Samuel did what the Lord commanded and came to Bethlehem. The elders of the city came to meet him trembling and said, “Do you come peaceably?” 5 And he said, “Peaceably; I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Consecrate yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice.” And he consecrated Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice.

1 Samuel 16:1-5 (ESV)


Next example:

18 And they will listen to your voice, and you and the elders of Israel shall go to the king of Egypt and say to him, ‘The Lord, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us; and now, please let us go a three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.’ 19 But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless compelled by a mighty hand.

Exodus 3:18-19 (ESV)

Notice what God told Moses earlier:

7 Then the Lord said, “I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters. I know their sufferings, 8 and I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a good and broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Exodus 3:7-8 (ESV)

So in verse 18 Moses tells Pharaoh, "Let us go in a three-day journey into the wildness".Moses didn’t tell Pharaoh this on this own the Lord told him to tell Pharaoh that. But in verse 7 we clearly see that's not what God has in mind. What do you call that isn't that at the very least a misdirection or as we sometimes say, a "half truth"?

 

[Justified Sinner]

Well, let me just say, if Jesus sinned we're all screwed! Not a single person goes to heaven, including Jesus.

First, it's impossible for Jesus to sin because He's not just a man, He is God. Also, though born of the virgin Mary, He doesn't have the same nature that we do. We're born sinners. Jesus was not.

Second, God Himself said Jesus didn't sin. If the Bible is God's word to us, He said through Paul that Jesus didn't sin (2 Cor 5:21).

It seems Joseph and Mary failed. Jesus was exactly where He needed to be: in His Father's house. He was obedient to the fifth commandment, honoring His Father: God.

The Justified Sinner

 

[Christ is Lord]

I don't think this is right. Misdirection is still deception, which God hates. God can never lie. The first lie ever told was by the devil in the garden and was used to turn Adam and Eve against God. When the enemy lies, he speaks his natural language. I don't think Jesus would have lied, as God wouldn't have lied either.

I don't like God lies but I think he can use misdirection or deception. I don't view lying and deception as the same thing all the time.

 

[NoahSK]

I don't like God lies but I think he can use misdirection or deception. I don't view lying and deception as the same thing all the time.

If God can deceive, then how can we trust Him? Just look up Bible verses on deception, it's always viewed as a sin that God hates. Are we going to make God out to be a deceiver and a hypocrite? What kind of God is that? God is truth, and no deceit comes out of His mouth. And, about your use of the story in Exodus, I read up on that too and found this article to be helpful in explaining it: Did God Ask Moses To Be Deceitful?

 

[NoahSK]

Well, let me just say, if Jesus sinned we're all screwed! Not a single person goes to heaven, including Jesus.

First, it's impossible for Jesus to sin because He's not just a man, He is God. Also, though born of the virgin Mary, He doesn't have the same nature that we do. We're born sinners. Jesus was not.

Second, God Himself said Jesus didn't sin. If the Bible is God's word to us, He said through Paul that Jesus didn't sin (2 Cor 5:21).

It seems Joseph and Mary failed. Jesus was exactly where He needed to be: in His Father's house. He was obedient to the fifth commandment, honoring His Father: God.

The Justified Sinner

This is the logic I try to use on myself to get rid of the thoughts and stuff, but it doesn't really work. I don't know. It might be OCD, but I just don't know. I just know that nothing's really helping. And can you comment on John 7:8-10? I've read a few things that kinda helped, but for some reason the thoughts and doubts are still there.

 

[Christ is Lord]

If God can deceive, then how can we trust Him? Just look up Bible verses on deception, it's always viewed as a sin that God hates. Are we going to make God out to be a deceiver and a hypocrite? What kind of God is that? God is truth, and no deceit comes out of His mouth. And, about your use of the story in Exodus, I read up on that too and found this article to be helpful in explaining it: Did God Ask Moses To Be Deceitful?

Thanks for the article. I haven't read it as yet. However, I will give you another example:


19 And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23 Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you.”

1 Kings 22:19-23 (ESV)

Here we have God approving of a planned deception in this case the spirit said he will be a lying spirit in the mouth of his prophets.

 

[Justified Sinner]

This is the logic I try to use on myself to get rid of the thoughts and stuff, but it doesn't really work. I don't know. It might be OCD, but I just don't know. I just know that nothing's really helping. And can you comment on John 7:8-10? I've read a few things that kinda helped, but for some reason the thoughts and doubts are still there.

You realize God said Jesus didn't sin. So, either God got it wrong or you did.

My apologies, I read John 7:8-10 and I'm not seeing the connection.

 

[NoahSK]

You realize God said Jesus didn't sin. So, either God got it wrong or you did.

My apologies, I read John 7:8-10 and I'm not seeing the connection.

It kind of sounds like Jesus lied when telling his brothers that he wouldn't go, but then went in secret anyway.

 

[RaymondG]

Hey guys, I haven't posted on here awhile, but something's come up that's caused me some distress. So I was reading the Bible and stuff and came upon the verses where Joseph and Mary left Jesus behind in the temple or whatever. For some reason, reading it made me think that Jesus didn't honor His mother and father in that moment (it kinda sounded that way) and it made me start to doubt a little I think, because if Jesus sinned in that moment, everything we know about about Him is false. Anyway, I looked the verses up to see if I could find something to explain it. In so doing, I stumbled upon an article explaining a whole other set of verses that made it look kind of like Jesus lied, and reading that made me doubt even more, and now I have this thought in my head that Jesus sinned, and it feels like I'm starting to believe it or already believe it. I try to fight and get rid of the thought, but it doesn't work. I can't get thr thought of Jesus sinning out of my head. While ruminating this around in my head, several times I said out loud and thought "Jesus did sin" and I didn't even react. I don't know if I knew what I was saying, or if I was really convinced that Jesus did sin, but it took me a while before I realized what I said and I immediately became concerned. I'm still worried that deep down I believe that Jesus sinned. I keep trying to tell myself that Jesus didn't sin, but I keep having the urge to say that Jesus did sin, and as I've said it's actually come out of my mouth a few times. This is so weird. I'm worried that I actually believe that Jesus sinned. Even after looking up articles and stuff that proved that Jesus didn't sin, it's like my mind won't accept them and continues to doubt/believe that Jesus sinned. This makes no sense. I don't know if this is OCD or not, but it feels really real and won't go away. It feels like deep down I really believe this, even though I've tried convincing myself the opposite. I don't know what to do.

Jesus did not dishonor His mother and father......Christ is spirit....His mother and father are spiritual.

"For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

 

[Justified Sinner]

It kind of sounds like Jesus lied when telling his brothers that he wouldn't go, but then went in secret anyway.

It may "sound" like He lied, but certainly He didn't. God said He didn't sin.

It is also possible we don't have all the information we need.

 

[NoahSK]

It may "sound" like He lied, but certainly He didn't. God said He didn't sin.

It is also possible we don't have all the information we need.

Yeah, I know. I don't know why I can't shake the thoughts and doubts. I don't know why this is such as problem for me.

 

[Justified Sinner]

Yeah, I know. I don't know why I can't shake the thoughts and doubts. I don't know why this is such as problem for me.

Because you're like the rest of us: sinful. It's the old man messing with the new man.

I just wanted you to see first that God is the authority who said Jesus didn't sin. So you must be wrong. (I'm not saying that in a snotty way, just a matter of fact way.) And your sin is exhibited in the fact that you question the ultimate authority (God), as if you know more than He does. Again, we do that too in different ways. I mean, you're no more sinful than I am.

In your struggle, rest in the grace of God. He can handle your sin and your attempt to usurp His authority. Once again, we all do it. I pray that God would soothe your soul and remind you that you're secure in Him.

And be comforted, this is coming from a guy wearing a Bob Ross T-shirt with a pumpkin on his head!

 

[Phil W]

Hey guys, I haven't posted on here awhile, but something's come up that's caused me some distress. So I was reading the Bible and stuff and came upon the verses where Joseph and Mary left Jesus behind in the temple or whatever. For some reason, reading it made me think that Jesus didn't honor His mother and father in that moment (it kinda sounded that way) and it made me start to doubt a little I think, because if Jesus sinned in that moment, everything we know about about Him is false. Anyway, I looked the verses up to see if I could find something to explain it. In so doing, I stumbled upon an article explaining a whole other set of verses that made it look kind of like Jesus lied, and reading that made me doubt even more, and now I have this thought in my head that Jesus sinned, and it feels like I'm starting to believe it or already believe it. I try to fight and get rid of the thought, but it doesn't work. I can't get thr thought of Jesus sinning out of my head. While ruminating this around in my head, several times I said out loud and thought "Jesus did sin" and I didn't even react. I don't know if I knew what I was saying, or if I was really convinced that Jesus did sin, but it took me a while before I realized what I said and I immediately became concerned. I'm still worried that deep down I believe that Jesus sinned. I keep trying to tell myself that Jesus didn't sin, but I keep having the urge to say that Jesus did sin, and as I've said it's actually come out of my mouth a few times. This is so weird. I'm worried that I actually believe that Jesus sinned. Even after looking up articles and stuff that proved that Jesus didn't sin, it's like my mind won't accept them and continues to doubt/believe that Jesus sinned. This makes no sense. I don't know if this is OCD or not, but it feels really real and won't go away. It feels like deep down I really believe this, even though I've tried convincing myself the opposite. I don't know what to do.

If Jesus had ever committed a sin, He would not have been qualified to be the perfect Passover sacrifice to cleanse our sins.
He would not have been raised from the dead.