Jesus said not peace but sword?

Godistruth1

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"Do not suppose that I(Jesus) have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34

Jesus also said
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'
Luke 19:27

How is it its said Jesus is love but the above says otherwise?
 
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~Anastasia~

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"Do not suppose that I(Jesus) have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34

Jesus also said
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'
Luke 19:27

How is it its said Jesus is love but the above says otherwise?

You need to understand the verses in context.

The first one is saying that the Gospel message will divide people. They will not all agree with one another over it. That is the "sword" on this case, disagreement. Not that Christ literally wishes to slay people.

And the second is part of a parable. The real message of the parable is that we should be using what God has given us, that our lives should be spent in some kind of service to the Gospel and not merely burying what He has given us so that it benefits no one. But the king in the parable does not accept those who reject Him.

This part has implications for eternity. It is not even that God will punish/destroy in vengeance those that reject Him. But by rejecting Him, they enter His Presence unchanged and full of sin. Nothing in such a state can live before Him ... yet they will be in bodies that cannot die so it is going to be torment for them at that point.

Neither of these passages contradicts the nature of Christ as love. You must not think a single verse stands on its own when it is part of a passage.
 
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Dave G.

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To see the depth and breadth of God's love read 1 Corinthians 13 and then read it regularly or periodically at least. Maybe look up some commentary on it. While it's good to question Jesus and get answers, it's not so hot to keep trying to find some loop hole saying He isn't who He says He is. Agape love is what He is about, his wish is that no one perish but sin has to be dealt with .
2 Peter 3:9
KJ21
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance .
.
 
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Neogaia777

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"Do not suppose that I(Jesus) have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34

Jesus also said
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'
Luke 19:27

How is it its said Jesus is love but the above says otherwise?
It's his sorting work... Way of dividing and separating the sheep from the goats... he will kill the goats... afterward... Unfortunately, the "dividing line" will cut right straight through all people groups, including even families, due to Satan's work...

God Bless!
 
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Godistruth1

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It's his sorting work... Way of dividing and separating the sheep from the goats... he will kill the goats... afterward... Unfortunately, the "dividing line" will cut right straight through all people groups, including even families, due to Satan's work...

God Bless!
So goats(those who reject Christ) are OK to kill just because they don't believe in Christ?
 
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~Anastasia~

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So goats(those who reject Christ) are OK to kill just because they don't believe in Christ?
No.

They are creating a spiritual death for themselves by rejecting life.

But WE don't kill anyone. Nor does God desire that they die.
 
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Neogaia777

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So goats(those who reject Christ) are OK to kill just because they don't believe in Christ?
Yep... hey, I didn't write it...

But, God does judge the heart and weighs "all matters" and "all factor's" including maybe why a person chose to accept, or otherwise reject Christ, I believe... And those who may have never had an opportunity, or maybe not the "right opportunity" also...

He's a perfect, flawless, and truly righteous judge... There is none like him... He knows you better than you know yourself...

God Bless!
 
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~Anastasia~

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It's his sorting work... Way of dividing and separating the sheep from the goats... he will kill the goats... afterward... Unfortunately, the "dividing line" will cut right straight through all people groups, including even families, due to Satan's work...

God Bless!

Hello Neo. :)

I agree with the central point - that there will be divisions right through even families.

But I'm curious what you mean when you say he will kill the goats.

Are you suggesting God will annihilate the "unsaved"? You might not want to answer - I'm not trying to trap you. CF just updated some rules, but I'm not sure it's even permissible to suggest this in most forum areas. I'm actually not sure, but I'll check as soon as I get time.


ETA I was correct. If you mean something else, feel free to explain. But annihilationism can only be discussed in "unorthodox theology".

I just can't figure out what it might mean otherwise. But no need to reply. Like I said, I'm not trying to get you in trouble. :)
 
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Godistruth1

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No.

They are creating a spiritual death for themselves by rejecting life.

But WE don't kill anyone. Nor does God desire that they die.
What does it mean when Jesus tells to kill them in from of him?
 
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Godistruth1

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Yep... hey, I didn't write it...

But, God does judge the heart and weighs "all matters" and "all factor's" including maybe why a person chose to accept, or otherwise reject Christ, I believe... And those who may have never had an opportunity, or maybe not the "right opportunity" also...

He's a perfect, flawless, and truly righteous judge... There is none like him... He knows you better than you know yourself...

God Bless!
So everything that God does is justified because its God doing it? Won't you question if something that's attributed to God that's not right, can be from God?
 
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Neogaia777

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So everything that God does is justified because its God doing it?

Yep, yeah, yes...

Won't you question if something that's attributed to God that's not right, can be from God?

Only man can do, and does do that... God won't and even "can't possibly even" and does not...? For he not only "does not", but "cannot lie"...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Hello Neo. :)

I agree with the central point - that there will be divisions right through even families.

But I'm curious what you mean when you say he will kill the goats.

Are you suggesting God will annihilate the "unsaved"? You might not want to answer - I'm not trying to trap you. CF just updated some rules, but I'm not sure it's even permissible to suggest this in most forum areas. I'm actually not sure, but I'll check as soon as I get time.


ETA I was correct. If you mean something else, feel free to explain. But annihilationism can only be discussed in "unorthodox theology".

I just can't figure out what it might mean otherwise. But no need to reply. Like I said, I'm not trying to get you in trouble. :)
I don't even know what annihilationism is...? I mean that he will put them to death either or whether eternal death or not, I think would have to be left up to him, for I cannot say, and do not know...?

God Bless!
 
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~Anastasia~

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What does it mean when Jesus tells to kill them in from of him?
Jesus was telling a story.

In the story, a king was given a kingdom and some people said, "we won't have this king" and rejected him. In the end, the king in the story is the one who is saying to bring the rebels and kill them.

First we have to know that the stories are told in such things as the people will understand. I think it was common for kings to put to death those that rejected the king when he came into a new country. So it was setting some context for them.

What it means for us ...

God is the source of life. He wants to give that life to men. But we must accept it. He won't force anyone to accept Him. But if we reject Him, we reject life.

It has been explained that a man who decides to shut himself into a metal box cuts himself off from sunlight in the same way. The sun isn't trying to punish him. He himself cuts himself off. In the same way, God is the only source of real life.

However ... all will be resurrected into their bodies. God has said this. Death will be no more. These bodies can't die.

But when Moses asked to see God - even Moses who was a friend of God - God told him that He couldn't show Himsrlf to Moses because it would kill Moses. Not that God wanted to kill him or would do it in anger. But Moses, in his less than perfect state - would die if he was put in the presence of God.

At the judgement, all of those undying bodies will come before God. And God is also everywhere, so they can't escape. But because they reject Christ, they are not freed from their sins. So they are in far worse shape than Moses, yet unable to die. So ... they will suffer because of what they are. The Scripture also says "our God is a consuming fire". Not because He desires to burn people up, but because His sheer holiness will have that effect on sin, the way a bright light consumes darkness.

But they won't be able to die or truly escape. So ... ongoing torment.

That's not what the simple story explains. But it is a parable, only meant to illustrate a truth that is hidden within it.
 
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Dave G.

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~Anastasia~

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I don't even know what annihilationism is...? I mean that he will put them to death either or whether eternal death or not, I think would have to be left up to him, for I cannot say, and do not know...?

God Bless!
Ok, we will leave it at that. :)

Annihilationism - Annihilationism - Wikipedia - (also known as extinctionism or destructionism) is a belief that after the final judgment some human beings and all fallen angels (all of the [condemned]) will be totally destroyed so as to not exist, or that their consciousness will be extinguished, rather than suffer everlasting torment
 
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Matthew 10:34 is metaphorical. It is about division between people and within families, because acting in accord with God would not necessarily bring you in accord with the ways of the world.

Luke 19 is the parable of the Nobleman. It is not Jesus himself saying this, but a character within the parable. It can be understood as referencing the Parousia, but is certainly not calling for violent action by Jesus' followers. It is more about eternal reckoning. It is playing off contemporary affairs, such as when Herod returned with Roman help, a general bloodbath ensued. The whole parable is vaguely Herodian in nature, heading off to a far land to try and gain a kingdom. The idea is more that ultimately your actions will have consequences, that one must act in this life. How much theological significance you place in the isolated verse 27, as to annihilationism or merely a part of the 'story' of the parable, is another discussion entirely.
 
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Neogaia777

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Ok, we will leave it at that. :)

Annihilationism - Annihilationism - Wikipedia - (also known as extinctionism or destructionism) is a belief that after the final judgment some human beings and all fallen angels (all of the damned) will be totally destroyed so as to not exist, or that their consciousness will be extinguished, rather than suffer everlasting torment
Oh, OK, well, I don't feel like i can say, cause I'm not God, but do you think that kind of answer will satisfy the "rules" (been getting into trouble with the rules lately, and am trying to be careful)...?

God Bless!
 
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~Anastasia~

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Oh, OK, well, I don't feel like i can say, cause I'm not God, but do you think that kind of answer will satisfy the "rules" (been getting into trouble with the rules lately, and am trying to be careful)...?

God Bless!
Indeed - there ARE things about eschatology we don't know. We know what Jesus said is true, but it is possible to read into it unintentionally.

I purposely didn't mention several things that are possible, but we don't know if they are true. God didn't tell us everything. :)

As far as the CF rules, I think you've expressed that you aren't sure. That should be fine. Just be careful not to make it sound like you're endorsing such things except in unorthodox theology forum.

Honestly, I try to avoid discussing eschatological things. I think what we know is limited. Even what I did say for the benefit of our visitor can be interpreted different ways, you know? :)

God be with you.

And if you ever have specific questions about posting, to stay within the rules, please feel free to pm me, or another senior ambassador or mod, etc. if you prefer. :) I'll always try to help. :)
 
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Halbhh

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So goats(those who reject Christ) are OK [for God] to kill [on the afterlife Day of Judgement] just because they don't believe in Christ?

How will the Day of Judgement go for those not knowing the true gospel of Christ? Paul answered exactly this question -- in Romans chapter 2 (and few seem to be aware of this). Let's look:

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”a 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."
-------

So, we see that all who are not aware of the truth of Who Christ is, the gospel, will be judged fairly on the basis of how they have lived, according to the law of God written on their heart/conscience. We cannot assume that means every one of them without ever knowing Christ will all perish -- we are not omniscient, so we do not know whether 1 in a million or more than that or less than that might live righteously even without knowing of Christ -- but, we do know that through faith in Christ, Whom God gave that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life, we can be forgiven for all of our wrongs when we come to Christ in faith and repent and are baptized in Him and born anew through Him, and then follow His teachings, as He said we must do.

We do know that Christ is the way, the sure way, to be forgiven entirely and the only sure way to redemption from our sins and to lead us into Life.



"Do not suppose that I(Jesus) have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34

Jesus also said
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'
Luke 19:27

How is it its said Jesus is love but the above says otherwise?

By always reading fully the passage where a verse is from -- full paragraphs, entire parables (which are very short stories) -- then you get the real meaning. Just like to understand a sentence in a poem you need that full poem.

Use the NIV translation also (not the difficult ASV used by this site). The first verse is about how His message would divide especially Jewish households, because it was so revolutionary to them, and so unlike what they had become used to; and it will still at times today divide some households, when some believe and some do not! The 2nd verse is about how Jews that rejected Him and His teaching (those who should have known better, knowing scriptures) have become like enemies, and will perish.
 
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RDKirk

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So goats(those who reject Christ) are OK to kill just because they don't believe in Christ?

Not for you to kill them, or for me, for any person.

God will determine their fates, whatever that will be.
 
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