Jesus never issued a blanket condemnation of judgment, judgeing is not wrong.

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

In Matthew 7:1-5 Jesus condemned hypocritical judgment, not all judgment. Hypocritical judging is wrong. Judging according to appearance is wrong (John 7:23) But we are commanded to rebuke and reprove and many times in scripture judging is commanded in certain circumstances and even sometimes by Jesus himself! I have seen people use horrible hermeneutics and take Matthew 7:1 out of context without looking at what the next 5 verses say. If you look at the chapter as a whole he is actually commanding us to judge in certain circumstances.

Someone had a problem with my name in another thread and the two of us started going off topic because of this. I apologize for this. I have started this thread so we can discus this issue away from that thread in order so that said thread can stay on topic.

Anyways I forgive him but I need to stand against these false beliefs because I believe they are dangerous and destructive. Not to mention I believe poor hermeneutics where used and that what Jesus said was being taken out of context. We are to use scripture to interpret scripture.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Funny thing is Jesus had proof you still can not show any proof.

Yes I can. You judged me for judging on a public forum so I can just go back and quote you. But it's not like Jesus had a camera or a tape recorder and he didn't debate any of the hypocrites on this . When he said "Well said you have no husband, you have five husbands, and he whom you have now is not your husband" that was the truth. But did he have to show her proof?

and we are not commanded to Judge there is one judge God, we are to use His judgement he gave us.

You have accused me of going off topic however although that is true you are the one who went off topic first. If you had a problem with my name you should have pmed me or started another topic. Honestly I should have done this myself after it got to a certain point but I felt I needed to rebuke you publically not only because it is commanded in scripture (1 Timothy 5:20) This false belief you have about judging is dangerous and destructive.

Rightly said that is not true! Jesus who was greater then Solomon was born in a manger, and was homeless. Is anyone here greater then His Master? We are promised trials, tribulation, and persecution if we follow Jesus, not money. "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (If Jesus was homeless wouldn't the 12 be as well while they where following him around?)


Read John 15:18-25 and Luke 14:26-35

Was not Moses richer before he started following God. Are not Egyptian Princes wealthier then shepherds? Were not tax collectors working for Rome wealthier then homeless preachers? We first meet Matthew in Capernaum, in his tax booth on the main highway. He was collecting duties on imported goods brought by farmers, merchants, and caravans. I am pretty sure Paul would have made more money if he had not followed Jesus. I don't think part time tent makers made to much money.

This is absolute proof that what you said here is not true. "I least i keep with the topic you have not posted anything on topic." I am not going to say that you were lying in this instance because this could have just been a case of foggy memory. But I have posted something on topic. It is you who went off topic in the first place. You have judged me plenty of times. Judging isn't wrong. Hypocrisy is wrong. Now I suggest we start a thread about how Jesus never issued a blanket condemnation of Judgment. So I suggest that we start a thread entitled Jesus never issued a blanket condemnation of Judgment and then we can take this disagreement to that thread.

If you had been with God you would not have falsely accused me.

So telling me I am not a Christian because I rebuked you for your hypocrisy isn't judging?

but you go on judging and you will receive judgement, Judge not less you be judge for the measure you judge a person shall be measure back to you. Have fun with that.

If a man who drinks 3 fifths of vodka every day accuses someone of being a drunk because he drinks a fifth every day, that person, the hypocritical drunk accusing the other drunk of being a drunk, is going to be judged by what measure he meets because of his hypocrisy. They may both be drunks but the 3 fifther is the bigger drunk, a greater offender, and Mr. 1 fifther doesn't claim drunkenness is wrong. Mr. 1 fifther is going to call Mr. 3 Fifther a hypocrite and will most likely mock him and his beliefs.

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt THOU SEE CLEARLY TO CAST OUT THE MOTE OUT OF THY BROTHER'S EYE.

Mr. 3 Fifther should first remove the beam from his own eye, then he can see clearly to remove the mote from his brothers eye. He should stop drinking then he can try to help Mr. 1 Fifther and until Mr. 3 Fifther becomes Mr. Sobriaty he shouldn't say anything to Mr. 1 Fifther about his drinking problem.

You cant do this with judging for several reasons. Judging isn't wrong. We are commanded by God to judge. Oh and how exactly would you be able to help remove the mote from your brothers eye if judging were wrong since doing so would require that you judge which would put the log right back into your eye? This would be an infinite regress of beams. You would never be able to obey Jesus if that is what he was saying.

If you had been with God you would not have falsely accused me.

I didn't falsely accuse you. What I said was the truth. This is a false accusation on your part. Oh and you are judging me, for something I didn't even do no less

oh so your projecting on to all of us what this man did. I am sorry about your sister that is a hard thing to deal with. I was molested as a kid and the guy never did jail time never got any punishment what so ever. I don't even think he felt bad.

No I am not projecting onto you or anyone else what he did but am just stating the obvious...that evil people use this "don't judge" heresy to justify pedophila and to try and escape punishment for their crimes. BTW do you think he should have been punished? That would require that a judge or a jury judge him. Lets be consistent and non-hypocritical and let every single murderer, rapist, pedophile, theif, con-artist, ect. ect. out of prison and abolish the criminal justice system altogether. After all only God can judge right?

Your problem is poor hermeneutics. You are not letting scripture interpret scripture but are taking one verse out of context and not even looking at the verses surrounding it.

Saul Killed Christians was a murder, He is also known as Paul who wrote 13 books of the Bible.

In 1st Corinthians 6:2-5 Paul said "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?"

Oh accuse me great accuser.

You are accusing me of accusing. Not only is that judging (which is hypocritical because you say judging is wrong and judge me for judging) but it is accusing me of doing what you yourself are doing by accusing me of accusing. Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocris!!!! Facepalm, facepalm, facepalm!


CAN WE PLEASE take this squabble to pm or start a specific thread do discuss this don't judge heresy so that people can get back on the topic of this thread? Don't mistake me, although you were the one who first went off topic and the one who started bashing I am at fault to.

 

[DeaconDean]

Slippery slope.

Jesus said:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Mt. 7:20 (KJV)

If I see a person claiming Christ, claiming to be a "Christian" and yet, going to another persons house and committing adultery, or going to the bar to drink, I can see their fruit. I can know they are not what they say they are.

In short, I can judge for myself, they are not living up to what they claim to be.

If there is no difference in their lives after the Christ event, than before, I can judge for myself.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Slippery slope.

Jesus said:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Mt. 7:20 (KJV)

If I see a person claiming Christ, claiming to be a "Christian" and yet, going to another persons house and committing adultery, or going to the bar to drink, I can see their fruit. I can know they are not what they say they are.

In short, I can judge for myself, they are not living up to what they claim to be.

If there is no difference in their lives after the Christ event, than before, I can judge for myself.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree. This is why I mentioned what that pedophile did to my sister while claiming to be a Christian. I was not painting all people who say "don't judge" with the same brush as someone thought I was but simply showing everyone where this destructive false belief can take people to.

I don't hate bobby for doing that to my sister. I want him to repent and I fear for him. But when I try to talk to him about how what he did was wrong he says I am not God, don't judge, and only God can judge me till he is blue in the face metaphorically speaking. I know Jesus loves him and like bluelion said Paul used to be worse. I want bobby to repent and get saved.

I don't think a lot of you who misinterpret Mathew 7 reailise how dangerous this misinterpretation is or how badly it needs to be confronted. I have preached the gospel to NAZIS, pedophiles, homosexuals, witches, and all kinds of different people and I know how dangerous that misinterpretation can be. I have a friend who is a Nazi who used to tell me don't judge and only God can judge him. By Nazi I mean a literal national socialist who idolized Adolf Hitler. I almost lost my friendship with him few times in the past over talking about racism.

 

[Bluelion]

Yes I can. You judged me for judging on a public forum so I can just go back and quote you. But it's not like Jesus had a camera or a tape recorder and he didn't debate any of the hypocrites on this . When he said "Well said you have no husband, you have five husbands, and he whom you have now is not your husband" that was the truth. But did he have to show her proof?


You have accused me of going off topic however although that is true you are the one who went off topic first. If you had a problem with my name you should have pmed me or started another topic. Honestly I should have done this myself after it got to a certain point but I felt I needed to rebuke you publically not only because it is commanded in scripture (1 Timothy 5:20) This false belief you have about judging is dangerous and destructive.




This is absolute proof that what you said here is not true. "I least i keep with the topic you have not posted anything on topic." I am not going to say that you were lying in this instance because this could have just been a case of foggy memory. But I have posted something on topic. It is you who went off topic in the first place. You have judged me plenty of times. Judging isn't wrong. Hypocrisy is wrong. Now I suggest we start a thread about how Jesus never issued a blanket condemnation of Judgment. So I suggest that we start a thread entitled Jesus never issued a blanket condemnation of Judgment and then we can take this disagreement to that thread.




So telling me I am not a Christian because I rebuked you for your hypocrisy isn't judging?



If a man who drinks 3 fifths of vodka every day accuses someone of being a drunk because he drinks a fifth every day, that person, the hypocritical drunk accusing the other drunk of being a drunk, is going to be judged by what measure he meets because of his hypocrisy. They may both be drunks but the 3 fifther is the bigger drunk, a greater offender, and Mr. 1 fifther doesn't claim drunkenness is wrong. Mr. 1 fifther is going to call Mr. 3 Fifther a hypocrite and will most likely mock him and his beliefs.


Mr. 3 Fifther should first remove the beam from his own eye, then he can see clearly to remove the mote from his brothers eye. He should stop drinking then he can try to help Mr. 1 Fifther and until Mr. 3 Fifther becomes Mr. Sobriaty he shouldn't say anything to Mr. 1 Fifther about his drinking problem.

You cant do this with judging for several reasons. Judging isn't wrong. We are commanded by God to judge. Oh and how exactly would you be able to help remove the mote from your brothers eye if judging were wrong since doing so would require that you judge which would put the log right back into your eye? This would be an infinite regress of beams. You would never be able to obey Jesus if that is what he was saying.


I didn't falsely accuse you. What I said was the truth. This is a false accusation on your part. Oh and you are judging me, for something I didn't even do no less


No I am not projecting onto you or anyone else what he did but am just stating the obvious...that evil people use this "don't judge" heresy to justify pedophila and to try and escape punishment for their crimes. BTW do you think he should have been punished? That would require that a judge or a jury judge him. Lets be consistent and non-hypocritical and let every single murderer, rapist, pedophile, theif, con-artist, ect. ect. out of prison and abolish the criminal justice system altogether. After all only God can judge right?

Your problem is poor hermeneutics. You are not letting scripture interpret scripture but are taking one verse out of context and not even looking at the verses surrounding it.


In 1st Corinthians 6:2-5 Paul said "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?"


You are accusing me of accusing. Not only is that judging (which is hypocritical because you say judging is wrong and judge me for judging) but it is accusing me of doing what you yourself are doing by accusing me of accusing. Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocris!!!! Facepalm, facepalm, facepalm!


CAN WE PLEASE take this squabble to pm or start a specific thread do discuss this don't judge heresy so that people can get back on the topic of this thread? Don't mistake me, although you were the one who first went off topic and the one who started bashing I am at fault to.

You pull my words out of context and do not put what I was responding to and you call that truth. That is wicked. I can take a group of words from the Bible and make it say anything I want it to say, does not mean it is truth or even the word of God.

We use Gods Judgement He gave so it is God judging and not us, You have shown you can not be a just judge you lie and bare false witness and call good evil and evil Good. Yeah I will stick with Gods judgement.

I like how you did not post my response to your sister that was kind and loving and spoke of my self being molested as a kid.

You speak from the dark tree and your tongue is a fire.

When you judge a child of God God takes that seriously.

Mathew 5

21 “You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’[d] 22 But I say, if you are even angry with someone,[e] you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot,[f] you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone,[g] you are in danger of the fires of hell.[h]

23 “So if you are presenting a sacrifice at the altar in the Temple and you suddenly remember that someone has something against you, 24 leave your sacrifice there at the altar. Go and be reconciled to that person. Then come and offer your sacrifice to God.

25 “When you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 And if that happens, you surely won’t be free again until you have paid the last penny.[j]

I have a lot against you, and seek justice.

 

[Bluelion]

Slippery slope.

Jesus said:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Mt. 7:20 (KJV)

If I see a person claiming Christ, claiming to be a "Christian" and yet, going to another persons house and committing adultery, or going to the bar to drink, I can see their fruit. I can know they are not what they say they are.

In short, I can judge for myself, they are not living up to what they claim to be.

If there is no difference in their lives after the Christ event, than before, I can judge for myself.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Really you judge a man as not a child of God because he goes to a bar. i think you just proved you make a poor judge. Jesus went to the homes of sinners, by your judgement you would have judged Jesus a sinner. Your judgement is not how God judges.

There is no law against drinking, Jesus drank, and Jesus did not teach to stay away from sinners. He said those who are sick need a doctor.

That is why we don't judge but uses God's judgement..

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

That is why we don't judge but uses God's judgement..

When you say that you do not judge you are lying! In fact you just judged him. To deny this is to lie. No it is not a righteous judgment to say that someone is not a Christian just because you caught them in a bar but while I have a right to judge him for that lapse in judgment and maybe even quote Matthew 7:24 to him YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO JUDGE HIM until you remove that heretical beam from your eye and stop judging people for judging. Until you stop saying that judging is wrong and remove that metaphorical log from your own eye you will not be able to judge anyone for anything without being a hypocrite.


Also since he dose not get hammered in bars constantly and commit adultery on the regular he isn't being a hypocrite.

Now why didn't I say anything to Decon Dean when he said...

or going to the bar to drink

Because I figured you would shoot yourself in the foot again. I was correct. Now while your foot metaphorically was already looking like swiss cheese I figured I'd wait until you shot yourself again before saying anything.

That being said drunkenness is forbidden in scripture and is quite dangerous. It should be discouraged. Heavily discouraged. There dose come a point when someone is trying to justify something self righteously and continually reengaging in it where we should call them out. As far as what he said about someone who is called a Christian "going to another persons house and committing adultery" I have to agree with him.

I think the church should do what Jesus said in Matthew 18:16-17! Paul agreed and gave the same advice to the Corinthian Church in 1st Corinthians 5...but oh noes that's judging. Take another look at 1st Corinthians 6 as well Blue.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

You pull my words out of context and do not put what I was responding to and you call that truth..

You claimed I had no proof...so I went back and copypastaed many of the judgemental things you have said.

I can take a group of words from the Bible and make it say anything I want it to say, does not mean it is truth or even the word of God.

This is exactly what you have done. You took Matthew 7:1 out of context using improper hermeneutics. You did not let scripture interpret scripture. You did not even use the next 5 verses which I kept quoting to you over and over again. When you read all 6 of those verses and even the entire chapter it is clear Jesus is forbidding hypocritical judgment, not all judgment.

You have shown you can not be a just judge you lie and bare false witness and call good evil and evil Good..

No this is a false accusation. Not only do I not do these things that you accuse me of falsely but you yourself have done these things which you accuse me of

Yeah I will stick with Gods judgement.

You are actually contradicting it. God's judgment that is! Jesus said to judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment. (Jesus is God so if you contradict Jesus you contradict God) He told us to give not what is holy unto the dogs neither cast our pearls before swine, a command which requires judging people as those Jesus referred to as pigs and dogs in order to follow. Jesus warned us of wolves in sheep's clothing and in fact said we shall know them by their fruit. Well how are we supposed to know them by their fruit without judging them? That requires judging them. Then there is Matthew 18:16-17 where Jesus tells us how to handle someone called a brother who wrongs us not to mention 1st Corinthians chapters 5 and 6.

I MUST clarify something before there is a misunderstanding. I do not believe you are a pig, dog, or wolf in sheep's clothing. I am not insinuating this at all. I quoted what Jesus said about those things in order to prove that Jesus commanded us to judge in certain circumstances. Since Jesus commanded this I believe it would be wrong not to judge in those circumstances.

I like how you did not post my response to your sister that was kind and loving and spoke of my self being molested as a kid.

I responded to it and that post is public and available for all to see. I was trying to post proof that you judged me and where lying, I was not trying to hide anything you said.

When you judge a child of God God takes that seriously.

Well that is what you did as well only my judgment isn't hypocritical and was correct. Did not Paul judge Peter for appeasing the judaizers? Peter repented when Paul confronted him. He didn't say "Oh noes your judging me I shall now judge you for judging"

And you say "When you judge a child of God God takes that seriously" But are we not both Christians and thus adopted children of God? You are judging me hypocritically. Do you not think God takes that seriously?

I have a lot against you, and seek justice.

Well that sure sounds judgmental for someone that claims judging is wrong. You have shot yourself in the foot. Look you judged me while claiming judging is wrong. You judged me for judging. Then you said you did not judge me and called me a liar when I was telling the truth. You are trying to dodge the fact that you judged me hypocritically by claiming it never happened and accusing me of lying. Since I told the truth I did not slander you whereas you are denying what you did in fact do and slandering me by calling me a liar. I FORGIVE YOU, but I will defend myself when accused falsely.

Justice has already been done. Everyone can look at what was said by the both of us and see your hypocrisy. Now I just preyed for you and asked the Lord to forgive you and to give you understanding, to cause you to realize the truth in what I have said. I hope this causes you to look up all these verses and learn from this encounter to be able to better be able to give effective answers to those who try to self righteously justify their sins by repeating don't judge like a mantra. Those people who try to self righteously justify their sins by repeating don't judge like a mantra are why I am so adamant.

Did you know I have a friend who I love very deeply who is a Nazi? He has in the past told me I don't have a right to judge him and that only God can judge him. My preaching against racism (which I did very very gently and tried my best not to offend him) as well as my preaching against other things (which he has since repented of) almost cost me his friendship a few times. I already told you of that pedophile who justified what he did and said the same thing.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

When you judge a child of God God takes that seriously.

Mathew 5

21 “You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’[d] 22 But I say, if you are even angry with someone,[e] you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot,[f] you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone,[g] you are in danger of the fires of hell.[h]

23 “So if you are presenting a sacrifice at the altar in the Temple and you suddenly remember that someone has something against you, 24 leave your sacrifice there at the altar. Go and be reconciled to that person. Then come and offer your sacrifice to God.

25 “When you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 And if that happens, you surely won’t be free again until you have paid the last penny.[j]

I have a lot against you, and seek justice.

Did you not tell me that I am not a Christian? That is how I understood what you said anyways.

If you had been with God you would not have falsely accused me.

Again where you saying I am not a Christian because I rebuked you for your hypocrisy? Well Stephen was a Christian an he openly rebuked and judge, he did this to a whole group of people including religious leaders, in the temple no less. They dragged him out of the temple and stoned him for it. My point is that what Stephen did in Acts 6 and 7 was right, just, scriptural, and not in violation of anything Jesus taught.

((Look at the youtube video I link to in my signature under that picture.))

 

[bobbarry]

The difference is this we believe righteous judgement...is just right judgement. But the clue's in the name righteous...it's meaning righteous and only righteous people may judge. And it's men with the holy spirit of god inside them. the reason they are allowed are because they have been declared righteous and are now free from sin - they dont have habitual sin. No one that practices sin has any right to judge anyone, they are still unrighteous...doesn't matter how small there sin is... Hence the reaon jesus said remove the speck from your eye so that you can then remove the speck from your brothers.


Thats why jesus could judge but he condemned others to judge...unrighteous people. Thats why stephen could judge when jesus condemned judging because he too had God's holy spirit inside him.


No one that God touches will/shall remain in their sin...however small, thats why they can judge. God would never allow you to touch over a woman then tell gay people there abhorrent. Thats why gays dont/wont listen to you. Get the spirit then they will if you really want to help them.


Do you think God would say homosexuals would not receive the kingdom of God and he listed many things, they were acts of the flesh...and at the end he said and things like these. Do you think he omitted, masturbating from his list. That is things like these. Thats why if your masturbating no matter how often, you cant be judging homosexuals at all. You cant be judging anybody...you still will i guarantee it, but you'll still be wrong in what your doing.


To get out of your current position, your going to be needing something...................and it's not more effort to beat your sins.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

The difference is this we believe righteous judgement...is just right judgement. But the clue's in the name righteous...it's meaning righteous and only righteous people may judge.

No to make correct judgments after examining the evidence dose not require one be righteous themselves. Furthermore Paul said homosexuals shall not inherit the kingdom of God and also judge Peter when Peter was appeasing the judaizers.

STOP IGNORING SCRIPTURE and picking and choosing verses. There are many times Jesus commanded us to judge. I quoted some of those verses. It looks like you are just plain ignoring them.

BTW I guess we should ask all prospective Jurors in rape cases and cases of child molestation if they touch and if they do then they should be disqualified according to you? Or should we abolish the criminal justice system altogether and let every rapist and murderer out of prison? If someone murdered your parents would your siblings not have a right to judge? What about the jurors in the trial and the judge and prosecuting attorney?

Judge Not Lest You Be Judged - YouTube

You cant be judging anybody...you still will i guarantee it, but you'll still be wrong in what your doing.

Now you are being hypocritical. You are judging me for judging while claiming judging is wrong. Why is it that you and blue lion think you guys can judge me but don't think anyone else can judge people? You are judging me for what you yourself are doing. You have hung yourself with your own rope.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Steve Wilkos Devil Mom Complete Episode) YouTube - YouTube Don't judge? Ok so then the parole board shouldn't judge! They should let this mom out of prison? If she wants to babysit your daughter don't judge? If she wants to be a teacher or a janitor at your daughters school don't judge? If she gets out and gets her kid back because of the notjudgyness of the parole board and wants to invite your child over for a slumber party then don't judge? Give me a break.

Have you got the point or should I post some Mel Brooks videos (like the to be or not to be music video) and ask if we shouldn't have judged Adolf Hitler? BTW You should email Mr. Brooks and tell him to stop judging national socialists.

Oh and if I goose-stepped into your house with a pink tootoo and sang that song from Mel Brooks music video To Be Or Not To Be would you not have a right to judge me? You couldn't call the police that would be judgmental. I would never do this however if I did it would be inconstant and hypocritical to judge me. What if a gaggle of people stormed into your church and sang that song? Would you judge them? Would you judge your pastor for judging if he did?

 

[bobbarry]

I can answer everything you've said... but i wont. It's not for me to teach you spiritual things, because you wouldn't understand them anyway. Receive the spirit and it will teach you itself. Thats all fleshly thinking with what you've wrote. That is so far removed from God's thoughts that it's actually quite scary. You need something more than you have at present sir.


The only thing i ll answer is...
You cant be judging anybody...you still will i guarantee it, but you'll still be wrong in what your doing.
Now you are being hypocritical. You are judging me for judging while claiming judging is wrong. Why is it that you and blue lion think you guys can judge me but don't think anyone else can judge people? You are judging me for what you yourself are doing. You have hung yourself with your own rope.


Thats not judging you or accusing you. I think you were referring to me saying you dont have the spirit of God inside you. Put it this way...if you told me you have 5 million in the bank, and i seen your bank statements and they said you had zero, zilch, nothing. And i went on to say to you, you have nothing in the bank... Thats the truth you dont have nothing in your account your bank statements have shown that.

 

[Legionwrex]

This whole thing between you guys about "You're now judging me for judging you when you judged him" or whatever is starting to get confusing. It's like "Who's on first?".

 

[Bluelion]

When you say that you do not judge you are lying! In fact you just judged him. To deny this is to lie. No it is not a righteous judgment to say that someone is not a Christian just because you caught them in a bar but while I have a right to judge him for that lapse in judgment and maybe even quote Matthew 7:24 to him YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO JUDGE HIM until you remove that heretical beam from your eye and stop judging people for judging. Until you stop saying that judging is wrong and remove that metaphorical log from your own eye you will not be able to judge anyone for anything without being a hypocrite.


Also since he dose not get hammered in bars constantly and commit adultery on the regular he isn't being a hypocrite.

Now why didn't I say anything to Decon Dean when he said...

Because I figured you would shoot yourself in the foot again. I was correct. Now while your foot metaphorically was already looking like swiss cheese I figured I'd wait until you shot yourself again before saying anything.

That being said drunkenness is forbidden in scripture and is quite dangerous. It should be discouraged. Heavily discouraged. There dose come a point when someone is trying to justify something self righteously and continually reengaging in it where we should call them out. As far as what he said about someone who is called a Christian "going to another persons house and committing adultery" I have to agree with him.

I think the church should do what Jesus said in Matthew 18:16-17! Paul agreed and gave the same advice to the Corinthian Church in 1st Corinthians 5...but oh noes that's judging. Take another look at 1st Corinthians 6 as well Blue.

I said more than what you quoted i compared His statement to what Jesus did. I use Jesus as a standard. His Judgement did not fit with Jesus. Just because you disagree with a person does not mean you are judging, however there is a judgement in there but you don't know what it is. It was when He i said he made a poor judge. You don't even understand judgement. And why did i say that about him because he did not measure up to the judgement Jesus gave, and I showed how is judgement would have condemned Jesus.

Your judgement are all off and false. You said dankness is condemned in the Bible, Just because a person goes to a bar does not mean they get drunk or even drink. I have know people to go to the bar daily and just have a coke, they don't even drink but like the company. Your judgement are your own so they can be picked apart like I just did. The judgement I gave come from God, they are His written in the Bible.

You don't even understand what you preach and suspect you are young, so you lack wisdom.

 

[Bella Vita]

I completely agree the law was placed to point out what sin is. It is the measuring stick so that we know what is right and wrong. The law is what points out what sin we have and what we need to fix. The law reveals it but doesn't redeem. God allows us to see what is sin so that we know what to stay away from and what to strive to fix. Seeing sin as sin and calling it out as sin is not judging as our society sees judging. We live in a society were we are suppose to be fine with what everyone is doing and if it doesn't hurt me then go ahead. That way of thinking is not biblical or of scripture at all.

 

[Bluelion]

You claimed I had no proof...so I went back and copypastaed many of the judgemental things you have said.


This is exactly what you have done. You took Matthew 7:1 out of context using improper hermeneutics. You did not let scripture interpret scripture. You did not even use the next 5 verses which I kept quoting to you over and over again. When you read all 6 of those verses and even the entire chapter it is clear Jesus is forbidding hypocritical judgment, not all judgment.

No this is a false accusation. Not only do I not do these things that you accuse me of falsely but you yourself have done these things which you accuse me of


You are actually contradicting it. God's judgment that is! Jesus said to judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment. (Jesus is God so if you contradict Jesus you contradict God) He told us to give not what is holy unto the dogs neither cast our pearls before swine, a command which requires judging people as those Jesus referred to as pigs and dogs in order to follow. Jesus warned us of wolves in sheep's clothing and in fact said we shall know them by their fruit. Well how are we supposed to know them by their fruit without judging them? That requires judging them. Then there is Matthew 18:16-17 where Jesus tells us how to handle someone called a brother who wrongs us not to mention 1st Corinthians chapters 5 and 6.

I MUST clarify something before there is a misunderstanding. I do not believe you are a pig, dog, or wolf in sheep's clothing. I am not insinuating this at all. I quoted what Jesus said about those things in order to prove that Jesus commanded us to judge in certain circumstances. Since Jesus commanded this I believe it would be wrong not to judge in those circumstances.


I responded to it and that post is public and available for all to see. I was trying to post proof that you judged me and where lying, I was not trying to hide anything you said.

Well that is what you did as well only my judgment isn't hypocritical and was correct. Did not Paul judge Peter for appeasing the judaizers? Peter repented when Paul confronted him. He didn't say "Oh noes your judging me I shall now judge you for judging"

And you say "When you judge a child of God God takes that seriously" But are we not both Christians and thus adopted children of God? You are judging me hypocritically. Do you not think God takes that seriously?



Well that sure sounds judgmental for someone that claims judging is wrong. You have shot yourself in the foot. Look you judged me while claiming judging is wrong. You judged me for judging. Then you said you did not judge me and called me a liar when I was telling the truth. You are trying to dodge the fact that you judged me hypocritically by claiming it never happened and accusing me of lying. Since I told the truth I did not slander you whereas you are denying what you did in fact do and slandering me by calling me a liar. I FORGIVE YOU, but I will defend myself when accused falsely.

Justice has already been done. Everyone can look at what was said by the both of us and see your hypocrisy. Now I just preyed for you and asked the Lord to forgive you and to give you understanding, to cause you to realize the truth in what I have said. I hope this causes you to look up all these verses and learn from this encounter to be able to better be able to give effective answers to those who try to self righteously justify their sins by repeating don't judge like a mantra. Those people who try to self righteously justify their sins by repeating don't judge like a mantra are why I am so adamant.

Did you know I have a friend who I love very deeply who is a Nazi? He has in the past told me I don't have a right to judge him and that only God can judge him. My preaching against racism (which I did very very gently and tried my best not to offend him) as well as my preaching against other things (which he has since repented of) almost cost me his friendship a few times. I already told you of that pedophile who justified what he did and said the same thing.

Again you lie, do you even know truth. I never used those words. I never said judging was wrong. What I said was we use Jesus judgement not our own.

I think I am done here because all you do is lie and like I said The Holy Spirit does not lie so if a person is lead by him he will not lie in what he is saying.

 

[Bluelion]

Did you not tell me that I am not a Christian? That is how I understood what you said anyways.


Again where you saying I am not a Christian because I rebuked you for your hypocrisy? Well Stephen was a Christian an he openly rebuked and judge, he did this to a whole group of people including religious leaders, in the temple no less. They dragged him out of the temple and stoned him for it. My point is that what Stephen did in Acts 6 and 7 was right, just, scriptural, and not in violation of anything Jesus taught.

((Look at the youtube video I link to in my signature under that picture.))

Again here you quote from two different post pull the quotes out of context and make them appear the way you want, now saying i said you were not a a Christian. That is wickedness and deceit.

But that Quote not lead by God, what it means is God is not speaking through you, He is not for you in your lies and false judgement.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

It's not for me to teach you spiritual things, because you wouldn't understand them anyway. Receive the spirit and it will teach you itself. Thats all fleshly thinking with what you've wrote. That is so far removed from God's thoughts that it's actually quite scary. You need something more than you have at present sir

Considering your blunders here I'd have to say you probably arnt a very good teacher considering not only the improper hermeneutics and lack of using scripture to interpret scripture but also the fact that you refuse to admit you judged me.

Thats not judging you or accusing you.

YES IT IS!!! lol

I think you were referring to me saying you dont have the spirit of God inside you. Put it this way...if you told me you have 5 million in the bank, and i seen your bank statements and they said you had zero, zilch, nothing. And i went on to say to you, you have nothing in the bank... Thats the truth you dont have nothing in your account your bank statements have shown that.

Seriously? Are you serious? Are you saying that I'm not a Christian? That is judgmental, you are judging, and you are being a hypocrite. BTW Would you would say the same thing to Stephen? Paul? Or even to Jesus himself? They all judged far more then I ever did. Check out the pic in my signature! Actually both you and Bluelion are MORE JUDGMENTAL then I am! At least I didn't tell you two that you aren't Christians. Here you guys are telling me I am not a Christian because I pointed out your hypocrisy. I pointed out your hypocricy and rebuked the "don't judge" heresy, I didn't say you guys where not Christians. And you two are trying to say you didn't judge me. You two are insinuating I am not a Christian.


READ ACTS 6 AND 7!!!! Walking into a Church or Synagogue and going off on the whole congregation is something I have yet to do. That wasn't a Church or Synagogue, that was THE TEMPLE!!! Oh no that's judgemental. We should tell Stephen, Paul, and even Elijah that they don't have the spirit and then judge them for judging. Then we should lie and refuse to admit that we judged them. Yep excellent idea

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Fables like the "don't judge" heresy.

 

[Bluelion]

This whole thing between you guys about "You're now judging me for judging you when you judged him" or whatever is starting to get confusing. It's like "Who's on first?".

it is thank you for the laugh. Just hard when people lie and say you are say things you are not. Thing I hate is lies.


Also when people pull one liners from 6 or 7 post and put it all together to make in appear as one single post, well that is just wickedness. He doesn't want to learn he want people to say yeah your a good judge, God says man is not a Good judge. I never said judging was wrong what i said was we are not to judge using our own reasoning, but we are to use the judgement God has given in the Bible to judge. That way it is God's judgement not ours and as such they can hold up to anything.