Jesus Left the Day of Worship Open

[Clare73]

Jesus was taking an action as part of a Passover Seder, so that is the context in which what he speaking about should be understood.



In Acts 20:7, it is important to keep in mind that for Jews the day started at sundown, so a meeting on the first day of the week would have began on what we would refer to as Saturday at sundown. Jews have a longstanding tradition of meeting on the first day of the week for a Havdalah service on Saturday at sundown to mark the closing of the Sabbath and to welcome in the work week. Jews also traditionally didn't handle money on the Sabbath, so this was also a time when they would collect offerings (1 Corinthians 16:1-2). So Paul spoke from evening until midnight, not from morning until midnight, and then left on Sunday morning to travel. This does not establish that they met on Sunday morning, and even if they had, it wouldn't establish that this was the start of a new tradition, and even if it was, it wouldn't establish that they hypocritically set aside God's command to keep the Sabbath in order to establish their own tradition, and even if they had, it wouldn't establish that we should follow in their example of sin. In regard to Revelation 1:10, the day of the Lord has a specific meaning in Jewish eschatology that refers to the day that John was seeing in his vision, not to the day of the week that he happened to have his vision.

Red herring. . .

There is as much supposition there about the NT record as there is about what I stated.

 

[Dale]

King James Version
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


the fault was with the people not the covenant

Put you NIV in the trash as it based on two Darwin followers translations.

I don’t have to let you pick the translation.

If you read the KJV closely, it does back up the point I made. God always planned for the Old Covenant to be replaced by a New Covenant brought by Jesus Christ.

 

[Dale]

post #2 updated as per Dale's apparent request in his post below.



So far this part of that post appears to be irrefutable..

1. He never quoted the command "do not take God's name in vain" but that does not mean we are free to do it without that still being "a sin" just as it always was for anyone who did it , in all of time.

2. The NT writers tell us that it was Jesus speaking at Sinai - speaking His Commandments, the TEN were spoken by Him to mankind.

3. Scripture tells us that for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

4. Jesus tells us the "Sabbath was made FOR mankind" Mark 2:27​

1. Hopefully you will find post #2 more enjoyable now.
2. How is affirming the TEN Commandments NOT a statement that includes affirmation of the Sabbath Commandment found IN the Ten ? Particularly when we see it is to be observed by all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth???

Because you did not make any statement in post #8 that says Gal 3 deletes the Commandments of God or deletes Isaiah 66:23 regarding the New Earth or deletes the teaching of Christ in Mark 2:27.

Details matter.

Gal 3 in your post does not mention even one Commandment - not even the Sabbath commandment. The point remains - having no argument from scripture that deletes God's Commandments you can't then claim that the affirmation of them is not an affirmation of the Sabbath commandment they contain.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

Bob, did you bother to read the Opening Post of this thread? Your latest three posts continue the trend in your first twelve posts. All you do is change the subject.

Contrary to your claim in #52, I did not ask you to “update” your post #2. All you did in #52 is repeat what you already said in #2 and #5. I did ask you to respond to the points made in the Opening Post. I quoted four books of the New Testament, including the three synoptic Gospels, seventeen verses in all. If you think these scriptures are irrelevant, then say so. Is there an Adventist view of these passages? If there is, I haven’t heard it.

On Galatians, the Apostle Paul doesn’t have to list every verse of the Old Testament that is no longer relevant to gentile Christians. Don’t put burdens on Paul, he was busy enough.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, did you bother to read the Opening Post of this thread?

Post #2 on this thread is me quoting from and responding to the OP.

I like keeping the details in view.

This is post #2 in case you missed it

1. He never quoted the command "do not take God's name in vain" but that does not mean we are free to do it without that still being "a sin" just as it always was for anyone who did it , in all of time.

2. The NT writers tell us that it was Jesus speaking at Sinai - speaking His Commandments, the TEN were spoken by Him to mankind.

3. Scripture tells us that for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

4. Jesus tells us the "Sabbath was made FOR mankind" Mark 2:27

There we see Jesus' affirmation of the Sabbath and we see that Jesus never said "if I don't quote a certain scripture -- then delete it"

We also see that even before the cross - the scope of application for the Sabbath according to God - was all mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

On Galatians, the Apostle Paul doesn’t have to list every verse of the Old Testament that is no longer relevant to gentile Christians.

and also did not give us license to make things up ... so both statements are true.

 

[BobRyan]

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you:
The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is
my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This
cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you
drink it, in remembrance of me.”
I Corinthians 11:23-25 NIV

“Whenever you drink it…” leaves the day open.

The Bible does not restrict the communion service to any one week day and does not say that whatever day you have communion must replace the Bible Sabbath or that it must be a complete day of rest and worship.

you may be conflating two different things.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Post #2 on this thread is me quoting from and responding to the OP.

I like keeping the details in view.

This is post #2 in case you missed it



There we see Jesus' affirmation of the Sabbath and we see that Jesus never said "if I don't quote a certain scripture -- then delete it"

We also see that even before the cross - the scope of application for the Sabbath according to God - was all mankind.

To worship from sabbath to sabbath is not affirmation of sabbath keeping, but the opposite.


Worshipping God is by Spirit, not by the flesh, and the flesh ( as seen in Israel) worship on sabbath, but through Christ we see the worship is eternal, it is the eternal Spirit,( it is not on a day then not on a day.)

Dead works, are what is not by faith, the law is what is not by faith ( the Jews still worship on sabbath until that worship ends soon)




Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[BobRyan]

To worship from Sabbath to Sabbath is not affirmation of Sabbath keeping, but the opposite.

Not in the actual Bible

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to bow down" Is 66:23

Lev 23:3 the 7th day Sabbath is a day of "Holy Convocation"

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12

The commandments of God include "the TEN" known to Jeremiah and his readers at the time of writing the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 and having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Dead works, are what is not by faith, .

You are spinning the Commandments of God "as if" God commands us to do evil in His Commandments.

Were we simply not supposed to notice what you are doing?

 

[prophecy_uk]

The commandments of God include "the TEN" known to Jeremiah and his readers at the time of writing the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 and having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2



You are spinning the Commandments of God "as if" God commands us to do evil in His Commandments.

Were we simply not supposed to notice what you are doing?

Children are to be brought up in the admonishing and nurture of the Lord, they obey in the Lord ( not in the law) it is the first commandment with promise, but now the commandment is with liberty and love, and faith, FOR THE FATHERS TO NOT PROVOKE THEIR CHILDREN TO WRATH.....




Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.



BECAUSE THE LAW WORKS WRATH...




Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.





FOR THE WRATH OF MAN WORKS NOT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD...



James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.



ISRAEL IGNORANT OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD, DO NOT KNOW CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS ( NO LAW AND NO WRATH IN FAITH)..




Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[prophecy_uk]

NOW IT CAN BE CONCLUDED THEN, IF i AM NOT SEEN AS SPINNING THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, OTHERS THEN, ARE SEEN.

 

[Dale]

Post #2 on this thread is me quoting from and responding to the OP.

I like keeping the details in view.

This is post #2 in case you missed it



There we see Jesus' affirmation of the Sabbath and we see that Jesus never said "if I don't quote a certain scripture -- then delete it"

We also see that even before the cross - the scope of application for the Sabbath according to God - was all mankind.

Bob,

I notice that you reply almost immediately but all you do is regurgitate your usual talking points.

It might be better if you would think a while before answering.


Do Seventh Day Adventists ever take Communion? I’ve always assumed that they do, but you sure don’t have much to say about it.

I notice that Ellen White doesn’t have much to say about the Last Supper, or churches holding the Lord’s Supper, or Communion.

 

[Dale]

The Bible does not restrict the communion service to any one week day and does not say that whatever day you have communion must replace the Bible Sabbath or that it must be a complete day of rest and worship.

you may be conflating two different things.

Bob,

I started this thread to talk about communion. On your 18th reply you finally used the word “communion.”

The day of communion is the same as the day of worship, for any church. Name one church that assembles for Communion, then disperses without singing a hymn or preaching, and then comes back on a different day for worship and preaching. Never heard of such a church.

Since Communion can be held on any day of the week, then Jesus Christ and the Trinity can be worshiped on any day of the week. There’s no way around that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Bob,

I started this thread to talk about communion. On your 18th reply you finally used the word “communion.”

The day of communion is the same as the day of worship, for any church. Name one church that assembles for Communion, then disperses without singing a hymn or preaching, and then comes back on a different day for worship and preaching. Never heard of such a church.

Since Communion can be held on any day of the week, then Jesus Christ and the Trinity can be worshiped on any day of the week. There’s no way around that.

Your title says worship. The only day that is mentioned as a day of worship for all of God's saved saints is on the Sabbath day for ALL FLESH. Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

We are told the Sabbath is a holy convocation Leviticus 23:3 and we see Jesus who kept all of the commandments of His Father John 15:10 going to the Temples (Churches) on the Sabbath day as it was His custom reading scriptures Luke 4:16 like the apostles Acts 18:4.

Jesus told us to not worship in vain by following traditions over commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Sunday keeping is a tradition of man which is why you find no text about it in scriptures, but Sabbath keeping is a commandment of God Exodus 20:8-11. Should we follow traditions that lead many to break one of God's commandments or follow God?

We are told Jesus is our example and we should follow Him. 1 Peter 2:21-25 Jesus kept the commandments including the Sabbath commandment as are example. Just like God left us an example from the very beginning. God worked six days and on the seventh day He rested. God than blessed and sanctified the seventh day because God claims the seventh day Sabbath as His only holy day (undisputable) Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. God does not need rest, this was an example left for us. Which is why...

The 4th commandment is similar to God's weekly cycle. We are to work 6 days Exodus 20:9 but the seventh day is the Sabbath and we are told to keep it holy. Exodus 20:8. God wants us to keep holy the same day that is holy to Him. We are made in the image of God and God does not want us to do the opposite of His example, which is what is being taught today.

Once God blesses something it cannot be reversed. Numbers 23:20. The Sabbath is the day God blessed, not Sunday. It's God's holy day and the only day God deemed holy, blessed and sanctified. Days 1-6 are working days for God and man. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:9.

Communion is something we should honor once a year and I agree the day does not matter, but that is entirely different than the weekly day of worship that God tells us to keep holy on the seventh day. The question is do we obey the authority of man or God?

 

[Dale]

Your title says worship. The only day that is mentioned as a day of worship for all of God's saved saints is on the Sabbath day for ALL FLESH. Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

We are told the Sabbath is a holy convocation Leviticus 23:3 and we see Jesus who kept all of the commandments of His Father John 15:10 going to the Temples (Churches) on the Sabbath day as it was His custom reading scriptures Luke 4:16 like the apostles Acts 18:4.

Jesus told us to not worship in vain by following traditions over commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Sunday keeping is a tradition of man which is why you find no text about it in scriptures, but Sabbath keeping is a commandment of God Exodus 20:8-11. Should we follow traditions that lead many to break one of God's commandments or follow God?

We are told Jesus is our example and we should follow Him. 1 Peter 2:21-25 Jesus kept the commandments including the Sabbath commandment as are example. Just like God left us an example from the very beginning. God worked six days and on the seventh day He rested. God than blessed and sanctified the seventh day because God claims the seventh day Sabbath as His only holy day (undisputable) Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. God does not need rest, this was an example left for us. Which is why...

The 4th commandment is similar to God's weekly cycle. We are to work 6 days Exodus 20:9 but the seventh day is the Sabbath and we are told to keep it holy. Exodus 20:8. God wants us to keep holy the same day that is holy to Him. We are made in the image of God and God does not want us to do the opposite of His example, which is what is being taught today.

Once God blesses something it cannot be reversed. Numbers 23:20. The Sabbath is the day God blessed, not Sunday. It's God's holy day and the only day God deemed holy, blessed and sanctified. Days 1-6 are working days for God and man. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:9.

Communion is something we should honor once a year and I agree the day does not matter, but that is entirely different than the weekly day of worship that God tells us to keep holy on the seventh day. The question is do we obey the authority of man or God?

SabbathBlessings: << Communion is something we should honor once a year and I agree the day does not matter … >>

Is that how often the SDA church takes Communion? Do they call it Communion?

Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
--Part of I Corinthians 11:24 KJV

We take Communion “in remembrance” of Christ. Isn’t remembering Jesus Christ something we should do in every church service?


SabbathBlessings: << The question is do we obey the authority of man or God? >>

The question is, do we obey God’s word in the New Testament or the foolishness of Ellen White?

SabbathBlessings: << Your title says worship. >>

The four passages I quoted from the synoptic Gospels and the Epistles deal with worship because they deal with Communion.


SabbathBlessings: << The only day that is mentioned as a day of worship for all of God's saved saints is on the Sabbath day for ALL FLESH. >>

There is no day of worship in Old Testament law, there is a day of REST. Just read what the Sabbath Commandment says.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is that how often the SDA church takes Communion? Do they call it Communion?

Yes, it is called communion.

We take Communion “in remembrance” of Christ. Isn’t remembering Jesus Christ something we should do in every church service?

Yes, but it doesn't delete any of the commandments including the 4th.

The question is, do we obey God’s word in the New Testament or the foolishness of Ellen White?

Who quoted EW? The foolishness you are referring to you must mean the scripture I posted because I only quoted scripture and I certainly would not call the Word of God foolish, which seems to be what you are insinuating. I don't see any direct quotes what you are referring to which would be helpful.

There is no day of worship in Old Testament law, there is a day of REST. Just read what the Sabbath Commandment says.

Lets read what the commandment says:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We are told not to do our work on the seventh day so we rest from our work so we can keep the Sabbath day holy like God commanded us.

We also see Lev 23:3 3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

Which as I stated previously we have Jesus showing this as our example going to the Church as it was His custom to read scripture on the seventh day Sabbath Luke 4:16

Hope this helps.

 

[BobRyan]

SabbathBlessings: << Communion is something we should honor once a year and I agree the day does not matter … >>

Is that how often the SDA church takes Communion? Do they call it Communion?

most churches do it once per quarter -- some do it more or less often. And it is not always on Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

We take Communion “in remembrance” of Christ. Isn’t remembering Jesus Christ something we should do in every church service?

1 Cor 11:
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

Christ died on Friday late in the day.

No text says that the NT gathered every week to commemorate the death of Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

The question is, do we obey God’s word in the New Testament .

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Where those commandments include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
With the "Sabbath made for mankind" Mark 2:27 and not "just Jews"

And your point??

do we obey God’s word in the New Testament or the foolishness of Ellen White?

Is it your suggestion that Ellen White spoke the Ten Commandments at Sinai??

 

[Leaf473]

1 Corinthins 11 But in giving you this command, I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better but for the worse. For first of all, when you come together in the assembly, I hear that divisions exist among you, and I partly believe it. For there also must be factions among you, that those who are approved may be revealed among you. When therefore you assemble yourselves together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in your eating each one takes his own supper first. One is hungry, and another is drunken. What, don't you have houses to eat and to drink in? Or do you despise God's assembly, and put them to shame who don't have? What shall I tell you? Shall I praise you? In this I don't praise you.

The criticism is that when the Corinthians came together, it wasn't to eat the Lord's supper.

The implication is that the Corinthians were supposed to be eating the Lord's supper when they assembled.

 

[BobRyan]

1 Corinthins 11 But in giving you this command, I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better but for the worse. For first of all, when you come together in the assembly, I hear that divisions exist among you, and I partly believe it. For there also must be factions among you, that those who are approved may be revealed among you. When therefore you assemble yourselves together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in your eating each one takes his own supper first. One is hungry, and another is drunken. What, don't you have houses to eat and to drink in? Or do you despise God's assembly, and put them to shame who don't have? What shall I tell you? Shall I praise you? In this I don't praise you.

The criticism is that when the Corinthians came together, it wasn't to eat the Lord's supper.

The implication is that the Corinthians were supposed to be eating the Lord's supper when they assembled.

No the explicit meaning is stated in the text.

"When therefore you assemble yourselves together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in your eating each one takes his own supper first. One is hungry, and another is drunken. What, don't you have houses to eat and to drink in?"

So "yes" they are eating and drinking in that assembly - but they are selfish and gluttons apparently - ... so it is not a matter of not breaking bread - it is a matter of feasting and ignoring the needy.


It does not say "observe the Lord's supper in every meeting"