Jesus kept and ate Passover

[Frogster]

Yeah...but that pesky law is still around to convict and identify sin. Betcha wanna take those blessings back now dontcha

do u mean that pesky law that is around to arouse sin,and empower sin?

The bible says that was the intent.Rom 5;20.

 

[Frogster]

The Spirit convicts by pointing out the law to you and showing your faults and your need for Christ.

how can that be.we are not inder law?

You seem to not relize that the law is for the unsaved.

we are now under a different principle.

 

[Frogster]

Right. The Law pointed to Christ. It is a teacher to show how short we are, how filthy as rags.

1 Tim. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned:

Love.

v9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Some may feel it unfair that the church seems to "get away" with redefining the Sabbath as a day, rather than as in the fulfilled work of Christ. Those of the schisms too make it a serious sin if you don't show up for mass/dl on Sunday. Again, they've just redefined and condemn what others are now reattempting. But God is not mocked, is not slow, as some seem to think.

yep..paul did not want the law taught to Tim's church.

 

[Frogster]

I'm with you wholeheartedly about how we obtain righteousness. Why would the law have to "vanish" though once you come to Christ? It's clear that the law applies to sinners, I'm sure we agree to that. But where do we get the idea that it goes away once a sinner is saved?

ummmmm,could it be that Christ is the end of the law,to those that BELIEVE? Rom 10;4

ummmmmm,could it be,that we are not under a pedagogue,now that FAITH HAS COME? Gal 3;25

just sayin...

 

[Frogster]

That's not fair. You know in all honesty everyone does "selective" law keeping.

Wait a minute..I speak against the law,when it is a compulsion,unless you can show me where my posts show otherwise.

You say we cant eat ribs,or shrimp.or catfish,or lobster,or..or...

 

[Norbert L]

Here's a rather indepth article where one modern day quartodeciman challenges another quartodeciman on the the subject of the timing of the Passover {emphasis}. These modern day Christians can be likened to those in the church at Rome where Paul could likewise address them, "...(for I speak to those who know the law)..." (Rm 7:1)

Hopefully this won't change the subject "Jesus kept and ate Passover" into a quartodecimism debate.

http://www.servantsnews.com/PDF/pascon01.pdf

The above article addresses wether the Passover sacrifice of the Lamb and "between the evenings" should be understood as at the beginning of the 14th or at the end of the 14th of Nisan. Also it's rather long (34 pgs.) so if there's a problem with that, it may not be something for all readers.

 

[jiminpa]

nope

not at all

prepared....made ready, but not eaten...

Luke makes it clear that Christ would not eat of it until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom....and that was not then...

the meal they ate does not mention lamb at all....




He could not have eaten Passover that year, even if all had been made ready,
because He was hanging on the cross as the Passover lambs were being killed

logic....Christ was the Passover Lamb....so since He was killed in accordance,
how could He have eaten?

He was killed a few hour before sunset, before the Passover,
as they hastened to take Him off of the cross befor the High Sabbath (Passover) began.

logic. Christ did not eat the Passover, and the Bible never says that He did...most just assume it wrongly.



Luke 22


1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
7Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. (preparation day...work...preparing bread and lambs etc....this is the day before the Passover/Unleavened Bread)
8And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
9And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
10And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
11And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? (not that He would eat, but the place was made ready for all of them, according to the Law)
12And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
13And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. (still the date before)
14And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. (the hour of His betrayal, still the date before)
15And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. (so He did not eat it at all...promised that He would not until fulfillment)
17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (notice how no lamb is mentioned...this is the preparation day, not the Passover...again, He was killed when the Passover lambs were killed, so how could He have eaten it?

Wow that's a serious stretch. Creative interpretation.

 

[Standing Up]

Here's a rather indepth article where one modern day quartodeciman challenges another quartodeciman on the the subject of the timing of the Passover {emphasis}. These modern day Christians can be likened to those in the church at Rome where Paul could likewise address them, "...(for I speak to those who know the law)..." (Rm 7:1)

Hopefully this won't change the subject "Jesus kept and ate Passover" into a quartodecimism debate.

http://www.servantsnews.com/PDF/pascon01.pdf

The above article addresses wether the Passover sacrifice of the Lamb and "between the evenings" should be understood as at the beginning of the 14th or at the end of the 14th of Nisan. Also it's rather long (34 pgs.) so if there's a problem with that, it may not be something for all readers.

Thanks for the link.

Quartodeciman only means Jesus died on the 14th. The 14th begins, eat last supper, arrested at midnight, crucified, and died on the 14th.

It is the question whether that last supper was a passover or not.

The article you cite oddly does not mention two things. Evidently they both are unaware of them. One is the Mishna, which provides the answer to the question; two is the custom of two passover seders on the 14th and 15th that arose from diaspora times, though it mentions the passover at 2 chronicles.

I recall arguing with a Rabbi about the "contradiction" between the Synoptics and John, saying there were simply two passovers. He pooh-poohed the idea. A few days later he admitted that yes, we keep two passovers.

 

[bugkiller]

The Spirit convicts by pointing out the law to you and showing your faults and your need for Christ.

The law the Spirit points me to is not the law of Moses. Jere 31:31 - 33. It says new as in khaw-dawsh (Heb 8:8 - 13 says kainos) covenant and backs this up with not according to in both references. What is it not according to? The covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt and is identifed as the ten commandments in Deut 4:13.

Verse 33 says My law still in the same sentence. It does not reference the ten commandments or any part of the covenant with Israel issued at Sinai. Verse 32 says not according to. God's law is not the law of Moses. God's law can and does include the law of Moses.

The new covenant is governed by grace not law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Here's a rather indepth article where one modern day quartodeciman challenges another quartodeciman on the the subject of the timing of the Passover {emphasis}. These modern day Christians can be likened to those in the church at Rome where Paul could likewise address them, "...(for I speak to those who know the law)..." (Rm 7:1)

Hopefully this won't change the subject "Jesus kept and ate Passover" into a quartodecimism debate.

http://www.servantsnews.com/PDF/pascon01.pdf

The above article addresses wether the Passover sacrifice of the Lamb and "between the evenings" should be understood as at the beginning of the 14th or at the end of the 14th of Nisan. Also it's rather long (34 pgs.) so if there's a problem with that, it may not be something for all readers.

So I guess that scripture is wrong. Therefore not inspired by God as II Timothy 3:16 states. You certainly seem to bypass in favor of something else. Why? And why don't you accept the scripture. You gave no proof that scripture is polluted concerning this particular Passover.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

ummmmm,could it be that Christ is the end of the law,to those that BELIEVE? Rom 10;4

ummmmmm,could it be,that we are not under a pedagogue,now that FAITH HAS COME? Gal 3;25

just sayin...

or it could be the law is not made for the righteous. We are declared righteous the instant we become redeemed through being saved (accepting Jesus as Saviour/Redeemer). It is late or I probably would be including the scripture references.

g'nite.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm with you wholeheartedly about how we obtain righteousness. Why would the law have to "vanish" though once you come to Christ? It's clear that the law applies to sinners, I'm sure we agree to that. But where do we get the idea that it goes away once a sinner is saved?

Oh I don't know but the scripture says Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers... I Timothy 1:9

Guess you missed it when Standing Up quoted it.

Do you need more?

bugkiller

 

[Timothew]

Yeah...but that pesky law is still around to convict and identify sin. Betcha wanna take those blessings back now dontcha

Not at all. God blesses those under the Law and also those under Grace, and I want to imitate Him

 

[Timothew]

Wait a minute..I speak against the law,when it is a compulsion,unless you can show me where my posts show otherwise.

You say we cant eat ribs,or shrimp.or catfish,or lobster,or..or...

froglegs?

 

[Norbert L]

Thanks for the link.

Quartodeciman only means Jesus died on the 14th. The 14th begins, eat last supper, arrested at midnight, crucified, and died on the 14th.

It is the question whether that last supper was a passover or not.

The article you cite oddly does not mention two things. Evidently they both are unaware of them. One is the Mishna, which provides the answer to the question; two is the custom of two passover seders on the 14th and 15th that arose from diaspora times, though it mentions the passover at 2 chronicles.

I recall arguing with a Rabbi about the "contradiction" between the Synoptics and John, saying there were simply two passovers. He pooh-poohed the idea. A few days later he admitted that yes, we keep two passovers.

I believe from my reading of that article, the author "attempts" to show that the OT only reveals one Passover. "Attempts" in as much as the same way those who show that there are two passovers likewise.

In your reading would you agree that a basic summation of that author's argument is that on the 14th of Nisan Jesus held "the last supper" at the beginning of the entire day, which is after the sun set on the 13th. That it is "the preparation day" where the lambs were sacrificed for the Passover on the 15th. That the Passover event in Egypt occured on the 15th day of Nisan. He is implying, how else could Jesus Christ literally become "our Passover, was sacrificed for us." (1 Cor 5:7)?

 

[Norbert L]

Well then, I'll ask again, how would you translate Luke 1:33? I'd translate it as "His Kingdom will be without end (telos)" Your way, it becomes "His Kingdom will be without purpose".

If crayons will help you, go ahead and use them. If I were you, I'd check a dictionary.

I don't understand the point of this thread. (where is a child when you need one!)

I remember what it is like being a child. I remember stories had an end, I also remember being spanked on my end. And most any child would be well aware of and understand, they would not be confusing one end with the other.

 

[visionary]

There were two types of calendars keep by different factions with Judaism at the time of Christ. He kept the Passover with one group and died in time with the Temple services of the other group.

 

[Timothew]

I remember what it is like being a child. I remember stories had an end, I also remember being spanked on my end. And most any child would be well aware of and understand, they would not be confusing one end with the other.

Oh, NOW I understand

 

[zeke37]

what should we get out of this thread?

we should remember that the most important tmie of the year was and is Passover
not easter.

 

[Frogster]

froglegs?

blasphemer!