Jesus & James

[Ron Reeder]

Let's compare what Jesus said in MATTHEW 25:31-46 to some of what James & others wrote, & see how they agree.

MAT. 25:
³¹ When the Son of man shall come in His glory, & all the holy angels with Him, then will He sit upon the throne of His glory.
³² And before Him shall be gathered all people from all ethnic cultures. And He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
³³ And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
³⁴ Then will the King say to them on His right hand: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
³⁵ For I was hungry, & ye gave Me food. I was thirsty, & ye gave Me drink. I was a stranger, & ye took Me in;
³⁶ naked, & ye clothed Me. I was sick, & ye visited Me. I was in prison, & ye came to Me."
³⁷ Then will the righteous answer Him, saying: "Lord, when saw we Thee hungry & fed Thee; or thirsty & gave Thee drink?
³⁸ When saw we Thee a stranger & took Thee in; or naked & clothed Thee?
³⁹ Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, & came to Thee?"
⁴⁰ And the King will answer & say to them: "Verily I say to you, inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to Me."

MAT. 25:31-40 = JAMES 2:22 & 24

JAMES 2:22 & 24
²² Seest thou how faith was working with his works; & by works, faith was made perfect?

²⁴ Ye see then that by works a man is justified, & not by faith only.

MAT. 25:
⁴¹ Then will He say also to them on the left hand: "Depart from Me, ye cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil & his messengers.
⁴² For I was hungry, & ye gave Me no food. I was thirsty, & ye gave Me no drink.
⁴³ I was a stranger, & ye took Me not in; naked, & ye clothed Me not; sick & in prison, & ye visited Me not."

MAT. 25:41-43 = JAMES 2:15-17

JAMES 2:
¹⁵ If a brother or sister is naked & destitute of daily food,
¹⁶ & one of you sayeth to them: "Depart in peace, be ye warmed & filled"; but ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?
¹⁷ Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead; being alone.

1 JOHN 3:17
But whoso hath this world's goods, & beholdeth his brother in need, but shutteth up his compassion from him; how doth the love of God abide in him?

MAT. 25:
⁴⁴ Then will they also answer Him, saying: "Lord; when saw we Thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison; & did not minister to Thee?"
⁴⁵ Then will He answer them, saying: "Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me."

MAT. 25:44 & 45 = JAMES 2:15-17

JAMES 2:
¹⁵ If a brother or sister is naked & destitute of daily food,
¹⁶ and one of you sayeth to them: "Depart in peace, be ye warmed & filled"; but ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?
¹⁷ Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead; being alone.

MAT. 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.
(Notice that they don't go into eternal life until after the last judgement.)

MAT. 25:46 = JAMES 2:13

JAMES 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy that hath shown no mercy;...

For the sake of emphasis; here's 1 JOHN 3:17 and JAMES 2:22 & 24 again in a different translation:

1 JOHN 3:17
Whoever has worldly possessions, & sees his brother has a need, but withholds his compassion from him; how is the love of God inside him?

JAMES 2:22 & 24
²² Seest thou, that faith did co-operate/συνήργει/synergize with his works; & from his works, faith was completed?

²⁴ So ye see that from works a man is made righteous, & not from faith alone.

Christ taught salvation by faith PLUS works. Not works of Jewish Law, but works of Jesus' love.

1 JOHN 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you; the one doing righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

ROMANS 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

JAMES 1:
²² So be doers of the Word, & not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
²³ For if any is a hearer of the Word, & not a doer, he is like a man beholding his natural face in a glass.
²⁴ For he beholdeth himself, & goeth away, & immediately forgetteth what manner of man he was.
²⁵ But he who looketh into the perfect law of liberty & continueth in it; he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[d taylor]

-

​

Neither of this set of verses are addressing what an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a permanent born again child of God.

So not sure why they are in a Salvation (Soteriology) thread.

 

[Guojing]

Let's compare what Jesus said in MATTHEW 25:31-46 to some of what James & others wrote, & see how they agree.

MAT. 25:
³¹ When the Son of man shall come in His glory, & all the holy angels with Him, then will He sit upon the throne of His glory.
³² And before Him shall be gathered all people from all ethnic cultures. And He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
³³ And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
³⁴ Then will the King say to them on His right hand: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
³⁵ For I was hungry, & ye gave Me food. I was thirsty, & ye gave Me drink. I was a stranger, & ye took Me in;
³⁶ naked, & ye clothed Me. I was sick, & ye visited Me. I was in prison, & ye came to Me."
³⁷ Then will the righteous answer Him, saying: "Lord, when saw we Thee hungry & fed Thee; or thirsty & gave Thee drink?
³⁸ When saw we Thee a stranger & took Thee in; or naked & clothed Thee?
³⁹ Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, & came to Thee?"
⁴⁰ And the King will answer & say to them: "Verily I say to you, inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to Me."

MAT. 25:31-40 = JAMES 2:22 & 24

JAMES 2:22 & 24
²² Seest thou how faith was working with his works; & by works, faith was made perfect?

²⁴ Ye see then that by works a man is justified, & not by faith only.

MAT. 25:
⁴¹ Then will He say also to them on the left hand: "Depart from Me, ye cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil & his messengers.
⁴² For I was hungry, & ye gave Me no food. I was thirsty, & ye gave Me no drink.
⁴³ I was a stranger, & ye took Me not in; naked, & ye clothed Me not; sick & in prison, & ye visited Me not."

MAT. 25:41-43 = JAMES 2:15-17

JAMES 2:
¹⁵ If a brother or sister is naked & destitute of daily food,
¹⁶ & one of you sayeth to them: "Depart in peace, be ye warmed & filled"; but ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?
¹⁷ Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead; being alone.

1 JOHN 3:17
But whoso hath this world's goods, & beholdeth his brother in need, but shutteth up his compassion from him; how doth the love of God abide in him?

MAT. 25:
⁴⁴ Then will they also answer Him, saying: "Lord; when saw we Thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison; & did not minister to Thee?"
⁴⁵ Then will He answer them, saying: "Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me."

MAT. 25:44 & 45 = JAMES 2:15-17

JAMES 2:
¹⁵ If a brother or sister is naked & destitute of daily food,
¹⁶ and one of you sayeth to them: "Depart in peace, be ye warmed & filled"; but ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?
¹⁷ Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead; being alone.

MAT. 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.
(Notice that they don't go into eternal life until after the last judgement.)

MAT. 25:46 = JAMES 2:13

JAMES 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy that hath shown no mercy;...

For the sake of emphasis; here's 1 JOHN 3:17 and JAMES 2:22 & 24 again in a different translation:

1 JOHN 3:17
Whoever has worldly possessions, & sees his brother has a need, but withholds his compassion from him; how is the love of God inside him?

JAMES 2:22 & 24
²² Seest thou, that faith did co-operate/συνήργει/synergize with his works; & from his works, faith was completed?

²⁴ So ye see that from works a man is made righteous, & not from faith alone.

Christ taught salvation by faith PLUS works. Not works of Jewish Law, but works of Jesus' love.

1 JOHN 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you; the one doing righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

ROMANS 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

JAMES 1:
²² So be doers of the Word, & not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
²³ For if any is a hearer of the Word, & not a doer, he is like a man beholding his natural face in a glass.
²⁴ For he beholdeth himself, & goeth away, & immediately forgetteth what manner of man he was.
²⁵ But he who looketh into the perfect law of liberty & continueth in it; he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Yes, both of them were preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel.

Salvation under that gospel requires faith + works.

 

[Aaron112]

Salvation under that gospel requires faith + works.

This appears to be in error and misleading, willingly or unwittingly.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

-

​

Neither of this set of verses are addressing what an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a permanent born again child of God.

So not sure why they are in a Salvation (Soteriology) thread.

If we are not ultra-dispensationist as if salami slicing the relevance of Scripture among different audiences at different times, this can be part of our ongoing belief in Holy Spirit inbreathed and infilled living towards that time.

In my young day, we had doctrines of redemption and assurance. Salvation was so much bigger then in our minds because we knew it will have to avail in troublesome days.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

ROMANS 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Of the moral and not ceremonial law. (The latter was intended as a mnemonic and a signal; the former a prophecy of Holy Spirit strength.)

 

[d taylor]

If we are not ultra-dispensationist as if salami slicing the relevance of Scripture among different audiences at different times, this can be part of our ongoing belief in Holy Spirit inbreathed and infilled living towards that time.

In my young day, we had doctrines of redemption and assurance. Salvation was so much bigger then in our minds because we knew it will have to avail in troublesome days.

-
​

The Gospel of John was written to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life) not Matthew or James

 

[fhansen]

-

​

Neither of this set of verses are addressing what an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a permanent born again child of God.

So not sure why they are in a Salvation (Soteriology) thread.

Actually those verses define who a child of God is, what a child of God does. If we’re not beginning to love well, then we’re not one of His.

 

[d taylor]

Actually those verses define who a child of God is, what a child of God does. If we’re not beginning to love well, then we’re not one of His.

-
​

You do not become a born again child of God by doing, but by believing in Jesus.

 

[tdidymas]

Christ taught salvation by faith PLUS works. Not works of Jewish Law, but works of Jesus' love.

This conclusion is the result of a misunderstanding of how salvation comes to a person. It begs the question, are you acting on a salvation already accomplished for you, or are you working for a salvation yet to come to you?

If you are working for a salvation you haven't yet obtained, then your work will always fall short, and your salvation will be ever-elusive, no matter if you feel satisfied or not in your works, because your works do not cause you to be righteous. If the formula for salvation is faith + works, then you might as well leave out the faith part, because it's your works that then obtain the salvation, which Paul clearly teaches the contrary. "By the works of the law [of love] no flesh will be justified, for through the law ["thou shalt love..."] comes the knowledge of sin."

Therefore, your statement is teaching the doctrine of eternal insecurity.

But 1 John 5:1 says that spiritual birth into the family of God comes before faith, I'll explain:
"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God."
So here it says "everyone" which includes everyone who believes (not everyone in the world). It is a statement of identification of who is born of God, and that is believers (implying that not any unbelievers are born of God). So how does the logic apply?
If everyone who believes is born of God, then one cannot believe before being born of God, since everyone who believes has already been born of God. So then it is being born of God that drives the faith, and one cannot have faith in someone they hate or loathe.

This is confirmed by Paul in Eph. 2:5, saying, "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)." Here Paul defines salvation by grace in his description of what God has done for us. "Dead in sins" means having no love for God, nor any interest in obeying Him, as he also says "without God in the world," in which Rom. 3:11 says "no one seeks for God." Therefore if a person is to be converted to love God, seek for Him, obey Him, and believe in Christ, he must first have the gift of spiritual rebirth (being born of God), wherein he receives illumination of who God is, the nature of his relationship with God, the Holy Spirit to dwell in him and speak to his conscience and change the disposition of his heart, receive spiritual wisdom and the fear of God, and the gift of forgiveness. This is how faith arises out of the heart of the believer, after God has "begat" him by the word of truth.

Then we come to the rest of the story as we continue in 1 John 5. After being born again and believing, then we come to "and everyone who loves God loves His child as well." I contend that it is much easier to love God and His children when you are acting out of a salvation already accomplished for you by Christ, that is a free gift from God, and one that cannot be lost by anything in heaven or earth or hell (Rom. 8:38-39).

 

[fhansen]

-
​

You do not become a born again child of God by doing, but by believing in Jesus.

You become a child of God by coming to believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, love Him, along with neighbor. That puts you into right or just relationship with Him, the opposite of Adam's unjust state of alienation, which sprang from unbelief, heeding himself and his created peers instead of God, the Creator. Jesus can show us the way to Him, because He is Him.

And love acts, for the good of others, by its nature. And if we don't love, we don't even know Him as John tells us in his letters. And knowing Him is what it's all about as he also tells us in 17:3 of his gospel.

Either way, if you're not living as a child of God should, then the odds are you're not one of His, regardless of any professions. Talk is cheap, that's all James was really saying in chapter 2.

 

[d taylor]

You become a child of God by coming to believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, love Him, along with neighbor. That puts you into right or just relationship with Him, the opposite of Adam's unjust state of alienation, which sprang from unbelief, heeding himself and his created peers instead of God, the Creator. Jesus can show us the way to Him, because He is Him.

And love acts, for the good of others, by its nature. And if we don't love, we don't even know Him as John tells us in his letters. And knowing Him is what it's all about as he also tells us in 17:3 of his gospel.

Either way, if you're not living as a child of God should, then the odds are you're not one of His, regardless of any professions. Talk is cheap, that's all James was really saying in chapter 2.

-
​

Do yall just make this stuff as you go along. There is not a single verse in The Bible that states a person becomes a born again child of God by coming to believe in hope in and love Him.

 

[Aaron112]

Do yall just make this stuff as you go along.

Most of the forum thrives on stuff made up.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

This conclusion is the result of a misunderstanding of how salvation comes to a person. It begs the question, are you acting on a salvation already accomplished for you, or are you working for a salvation yet to come to you?

Christ taught salvation by faith PLUS works. Not works of Jewish Law, but works of Jesus' love.

( 2 nd quote is Ron Reeder )

Works of Jesus' love are gifts of God that are fruits of faith

That's why He would be / is pleased with them. In my young day the teaching and the familiarity with the entire Bible were so much more ample.

 

[fhansen]

-
​

Do yall just make this stuff as you go along. There is not a single verse in The Bible that states a person becomes a born again child of God by coming to believe in hope in and love Him.

Most of the forum thrives on stuff made up. But not by me but by those who've bought into very novel theologies like yourself, all based on private interpretations of Scripture. The early church and early fathers wouldn't have even recognized your "gospel".

To begin with, again, John tells us that we don't even know Him if we don't love. Pretty hard to believe in, let alone hope in and love Him, if we don't know Him. And Jesus gives us the greatest commandments in Matt 22 and Paul tells us in 1 Cor 13 that we're nothing if we have only faith and that love is the greatest virtue of the three: faith, hope, and love. The church has always understood this. One of the greatest tradgedies in Christianity happened when some determined that the new covevenat and faith were some kind of carte blanc reprieve from the penalty of sin past, present, and future and the obligation for man to be obedient, rather than the authentic means to accomplish those very things.

Love is the only thing that can cause us to obey, do good, and fullfil the commandments, overcoming the sin that otherwise earns us death: the right way, God's way, with Him now, by His Spirit, under His grace.

 

[fhansen]

The Gospel of John was written to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life) not Matthew or James

The entire new testament was written for that purpose. They all preached one and the same gospel: Jesus, James, John, Peter, Paul, et al.

 

[Guojing]

This appears to be in error and misleading, willingly or unwittingly.

James 2:24 and Acts 21:18-25 made that clear to the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[Guojing]

Actually those verses define who a child of God is, what a child of God does. If we’re not beginning to love well, then we’re not one of His.

People use gospel of John to form a doctrine like that "salvation is just about believing Jesus", but ignore what is written in 1 John, that if you don't love, you do not have eternal life.

This is the unfortunate legacy of Billy Graham.

 

[tdidymas]

( 2 nd quote is Ron Reeder )

Works of Jesus' love are gifts of God that are fruits of faith

That's why He would be / is pleased with them. In my young day the teaching and the familiarity with the entire Bible were so much more ample.

Yes, love is the fruit of the Spirit, in which faith is also the gift of God.

 

[d taylor]

The entire new testament was written for that purpose. They all preached one and the same gospel: Jesus, James, John, Peter, Paul, et al.

-

​

Oh really, care to show the verse or verses that state this. That is right they taught to receive God;s free gift of Eternal Life, believe in Jesus. I am sure they each had a copy of The Gospel of John with them.