First of all. Christ did NOT create ALL things. He created all things in the context of what was being referred to: That which pertains to US, (mankind). He certainly did NOT 'create Himself' nor did He create God. So it is CLEAR that the meaning of 'everything' is NOT what YOU would have OTHERS believe.
Second of all, the I am quote doesn't offer proof of ANYTHING except in the eyes of those that use it to MAKE UP what they want it to mean. But in TRUTH, it was offered EXACTLY as it was MEANT to be taken, "BEFORE Abraham, I am".
If you will NOTE, (and I am SURE you are aware), the I Am that was used by God in the OT is capitalized in the KJV of the Bible. If those that translated this book BELIEVED as you do, then they would certainly have capitalized it when Christ used it. But they DID NOT. They DID NOT for they did NOT believe that these words were offered to PROVE anything other than the existence of Christ BEFORE Abraham.
So far as forgiving sin. Christ could DO whatever He was empowered to DO. If God, His Father empowered Him to forgive sins, then He could forgive sins. If His Father: GOD, empowered Him to be able to 'walk on water', turn water into wine, or 'raise the dead' then those were ALL things that He could certainly DO.
The "I and the Father are one"? You can't be serious. You HONESTLY believe that this has ANYTHING to do with Christ, The Son, and the Father, GOD being ONE as in THE SAME? Your precious 'trinity' doesn't even teach such a THING. For the Father and the Son are TWO DIFFERENT persons that make up ONE God, (along with the Holy Spirit).
But to put your statements to rest. We are told that when a man and woman wed, they become AS ONE. We are told that WE can be ONE with Christ as Christ is ONE with His Father. So the inference is OBVIOUSLY NOT meant to be taken literal as in a woman and man can become THE SAME. or that the Father and Son are the SAME. It means ONE in understanding and purpose.
It's amazing how accurate Thomas Jefferson was when he stated:
In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons gullibility which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
Over and over those that profess to believe in 'trinity' attempt to take scripture that means NOTHING of what they state and insist that it means what they WANT it to. In utter disregard to ALL that is contrary to such statements.
in other words, you say that the "I and the Father are ONE" statement is Christ stating that HE IS GOD. Since even 'trinity' does not teach this, even those that created the concept and introduced it into Christianity DO NOT teach that the Father and the Son are THE SAME.
When a member of a team speaks of each of it's members as ONE. That is NOT an indication that they are LITERALLY the SAME. They are involved with playing AS ONE. They are a TEAM. They have the same purpose and in that purpose they ARE ONE.
Christ did not LIE. He and His Father ARE 'one'. And we can Christ can be ONE as well. But that doesn't make US Christ anymore than the statement makes Christ GOD.
NO, Christ is NOT eternal BACKWARDS. The Bible CLEARLY offers that there was a TIME BEFORE The Son existed. A time BEFORE Christ. You have to alter and twist a NUMBER of scriptures to talk around this point. And frankly, you CANNOT offer anything that FITS without accepting what we are offered in TRUTH. Christ was MADE. He is the FIRSTBORN of EVERY 'creature'. He LEARNED from His Father.
And He is NOT 'the Word' as you interpret John 1: For HE CANNOT be that which is NOT HIM. And He openly stated that God's Word is GOD'S Word that God GAVE to Him. So the 'in the beginning was the Word is NOT in reference to Christ. Only after the word was GIVEN to Christ did He possess it. But in the beginning, God's Word was simply THAT: His Word. Just like YOUR word is with YOU, so too is God's Word with HIM. But YOUR word is NO more YOU than any other part of YOU. It is merely ONE aspect of your being.
What you seem to fail to realize is that we are also told that we can DO GREATER things than those performed by Christ. But from YOUR perspective, to have such ability means one MUST be God Himself. Obviously YOU are in error.
God can place whatever power He chooses in whatever He chooses. If He chooses to place His Son at His right hand, that is HIS choice. If He decided that YOU were going to be His left hand, that is WHAT you would be. And if He decides tomorrow to place the power to heal someone in the hands of a man, He is plenty capable of DOING it. But that man would NOT be GOD either.
You asked, now can you hear?
Let us examine the words offered in Hebrews. Let's examine them as a WHOLE and not simply pull ONE line OUT of context. Shall we?
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
these words offer PLAINLY that Jesus Christ is the SON of God. NOT God Himself. READ the words YOURSELF. They also STATE that Jesus Christ was MADE and that His place at the Father's side was INHERITED.
So we have established in these words that Jesus IS The Son of God and God is TO HIM a 'Father'. HIS Father.
Then comes the line that YOU use to try and state that Jesus IS God Himself. Ok, but then what is stated AFTER that:
therefore God, EVEN THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above they fellows.
Why the words O God are used is something that many claim to be a mistranslation of the original words. I'm not going to GO there. I am simply going to POINT out that IF what YOU say is TRUE, the all the rest that is offered is WRONG. Jesus was NOT made. NOR is God HIS Father. And God ISN'T REALLY HIS God.
But if ALL the other scripture leading up to this one line are true. And all that is offered after it is true. Then OBVIOUSLY the line that you refer to means SOMETHING DIFFERENT than what you are trying to MAKE IT MEAN. For what YOU are trying to make it mean is that God is calling His Son HIS God. And we KNOW that this is simply NOT SO. So there is OBVIOUSLY some OTHER meaning or it is indeed a mistranslation of the original words that were used.
What I see in those that try and use the terms I am, or ONE, or this line of Hebrews is WISHFUL thinking. WANTING to SEE something SO BAD that they are willing to abandon any sense of logic or reasoning for the sake of a MAN MADE doctrine. And we have these words which perfectly illustrate JUST such a situation:
2 Thessalonians 2:
0 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
And I have WITNESSED the PLEASURE that those that profess 'trinity' take in their BONDING with EACH OTHER. Using 'trinity' as a dividing wall that separates them from their neighbors.
So it is apparent that IF you WANT to believe in something BAD ENOUGH, even if it is WRONG, God Himself will send STRONG delusion so that one will BELIEVE whatever lie they choose to follow.
That is WHY Muslims are strapping bombs to their backs and KILLING Jews and Christians, (heck, EACH OTHER). That is WHY there are supposedly SMART MEN out in the woods looking for an imaginary 'Big Foot'. That is why there are men that have absolutely NO evidence but will SWEAR that aliens exist. And that is WHY there are those that would follow a 'man-made' doctrine to the point that they could be convinced to KILL their neighbors who refused to accept it. For that is EXACTLY how 'trinity' was originally introduced. It was FORCED upon the congregation at the threat of DEATH to all that refuted it. Arius being one of the first casualties of this 'man-made doctrine' and then there were perhaps MILLIONS that followed.
Even today we see those that follow 'trinity' getting ANGRY with their neighbors who refuse to accept it. WHY? Why would it enrage someone if their neighbor refused to heed their words of what they believe? No one seems to get UPSET when Muslims don't believe in a 'trinity'. No one seems to get upset even when a SATANIST states that they do not believe in 'trinity'. But let a FELLOW follower of Christ refuse, and they are UNSAVED, LOST, misguided, blasphemers, heretics and even WORSE. Kind of strange when you think about it isn't it................................ How ME not believing what YOU believe could lead you to anger. Be honest now. You know it's true.
And if it is not true with you, it certainly has been with MANY MANY MANY others that I have spoken to IN PERSON where I could observe their behavior. I once thought I was going to have to FIGHT my way out of a crowd of Catholics in the waiting room of a Hospital. And I wasn't even TALKING TO THEM. I was talking with a companion about the history of 'trinity' and they merely overheard me and started verbally attacking me. Verbally at first and then I HONESTLY thought I was going to have to FIGHT some of them. Fortunately I was able to LEAVE before anything physical took place. But they were certainly ACTING in a 'threatening manner'.
And as I asked my companion as we were fleeing, "Why? Why do you THINK that someone professing to be a follower of Christ would ACT like that? Most likely because the Christ that they profess to follow and THE Christ, The Son of God are TWO different 'Christs'. The one they follow seems to encourage them to believe that it's OK to condemn or even punish those that refuse to accept their 'man made' doctrines.
Blessings,
MEC
