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Featured Jesus isn't Catholic

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DeepWater, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    I disagree, the Eunuch needed help because the finished work provided by the Holy Spirit was not yet available.
    And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
    Acts 8:30
    As you can see he was reading from the prophet Esaias. If I only had the writings that the Eunuch had available I too would have needed assistance.
    God's word, absent "man's greater wisdom" and man's sinful pride, planted in the humble, God seeking heart will produce a Christian.
    In Him
     
  2. Concord1968

    Concord1968 LCMS Lutheran

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    Question:
    Answer:
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    If you know what it says, then please give me a word for word commentary on the passage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  4. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Right. Except that from my experience many believers with a "humble, God seeking heart", viewing themselves as Spirit-led, can disagree greatly over the meaning of Scripture.
     
  5. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    One if the best teachings I'm familiar with sums it up this way, "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." And, if we do love we'll, God and neighbor, there really isn't any judgment in order.
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    About what?
     
  7. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Because their views have been previously contaminated. Itis hard to see what is simply given in scripture if the world has trained you to think in a certain way. That is why Jesus said it is easier for children who have not yet been brainwashed. Step one is to clear the mind of notion or bias.
     
  8. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Yes, but Scripture can still be quite vague and sometimes seemingly contradictory on many points. I find the historical positions to be the soundest, but I also had to clear my mind of much notion or bias to begin to believe that too.
     
  9. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that theology has made it so, but Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom seems quite clear, once a person gets past rarely being told we are to chose between Kingdom vs world man has made in our image and the reasons they differ. :)

    Actually to be quite blunt, it seems the institutional church, regardless of which denomination, is more interested in us supporting them than the Kingdom. So there is little vested interest in keeping us anything but confused. Kinda like their soul mates, the governments of man. We won't recognize the world when Jesus finally puts His foot down.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  10. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Active Member

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    Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 l
    The falling away was foretold by Paul. I can't see anyone who would argue that Catholicism was in fellowship with God while endorsing indulgences. Peter said this:
    Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. - 1 Peter 2:13-17
    Not only was the doctrine of indulgences false it was malicious.
    In Him
     
  11. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did Paul have authority? Did Peter have authority? Did James have authority? You say Jesus has all authority, so it looks like you are saying Paul and Peter and James had zero authority. But the Bible says something different.
    You dodged answering what the name on the door of the place you attend says. Clever that. You know exactly what I believe. I, and all your other readers, have no idea what peculiar things you might believe, whether it is sound doctrine or unsound doctrine. All we really know about you is that you are 100% opposed to the Catholic Church, and that only because you said so. Are you Trinitarian or no? We don't know. But we can suspect you are not because you are 100% opposed to the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church is Trinitarian. I could go on and on, but the point is it is unclear whether the brand you attend has sound or unsound doctrine. Your say-so is unconvincing. I hope you do, but there is no real evidence yet that you have presented that you do. You have attacked the Catholic Church but said little about your brand other than your opposition to everything Catholic.
    So you belong to some brand that has on it's door 'Church of God'? Or 'Church of Christ'? Anybody can hang up such a sign. It does not make the leaders of such a place Christian that they claim to be 'of God' or 'of Christ'. The 'Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' claim to be 'The Church' AND 'of Jesus Christ' for all the good it does them.
    You claim that the 'brand' you belong to actually is to Christ. You have not established that such is the case. And again I remind you that you haven't mentioned the name of the brand so that others might have the basis to ask you questions about whether your brand belongs to Christ or only pretends to belong to Christ. Your say-so might convince you, but it isn't so convincing for every one else.
    I doubt that. I suspect God's word is in deed a springboard for your beliefs, which are the traditions of one man, either yourself or some founder of your brand, whether it be a founder 500 years ago or last year.
     
  12. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Good point. The first followers were known as the Way, a more proper description at the time.
     
  13. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    The passage says
    "But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it, and that from infancy you have known [the] sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work."​
    The words speak for themselves. What scriptures would Timothy have known from birth? Does the word "useful" mean "totally sufficient"?
     
  14. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Timothy would have known the OT, and considering his Hellenized name, he would have known the Septuagent version. The version his mother and grandmother taught him.

    That version, if sufficient unto itself, as is claimed, then the NT is not even needed. The verses are made out to claim too much when they are used to prove sola Scriptura.
     
  15. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    Indeed. It also would demand the conclusion that the Deuterocanonical books rejected by Luther and the Reformers are actually part of the canon, as the Catholic Church has said since the Fourth Century.
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I noticed you de-emphasized the words "profitable" and "perfect" out of the passage. You said "useful" instead of "profitable" and you said "competent" instead of "perfect."

    It says:

    16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
    (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

    When we think of the word "profitable" we think in terms of how it "pays off."
    When we think of the word "perfect" we think in terms of perfection, and completion, or wholeness.

    So again, if ALL Scripture is profitable (pays off) in regards to doctrine, and instruction in righteousness, etc. so that the man of God may be PERFECT (complete or matured) unto ALL (This means "ALL" I repeat: ALL) ALL good works, then what do we need traditions for?

    According to the Bible.... it would serve no purpose because according to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Scripture is sufficient or profitable for doctrine, and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be PERFECT unto ALL good works.

    Most of the time when the word "traditions" appears in the Bible, it is used in a negative sense. Jesus condemned the traditions of men because they violated the Word of God. The only one time the word "traditions" is used in a positive way, it is in reference to spoken words that would become written Scripture (and it did not refer to a book called "traditions" or to an oral form of passed down traditions). For nowhere does the Bible teach that there is some added thing called "traditions" as being separate from Scripture or as having as equal weight or authority. In fact, why would they even have two forms of communication? It makes no sense. If they are all written words of God, then it would be Scripture.

    Also, can you prove that your church traditions are divine in origin like the Bible? Are there tons of evidences showing that your church traditions are divine like the Bible?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  17. stevenfrancis

    stevenfrancis Disciple

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    Jesus was a Jew. He FOUNDED a Church upon His Apostles and He is the OBJECT of Christianity. They Apostles made Bishops, and via a process of Apostolic succession, the one Holy, catholic and apostolic church is still found in three groups of churches which would not be referred to as "denominations" because they form the one Church and are all three still visible up to this day, and will always be. I believe that their affiliation with each other will grow stronger, and divisions diminish as we draw closer to the end of days. The three groupings are the three visible Churches which are validly apostolic in origin, and retain the sacraments instituted by Jesus. They are the Roman Catholic Church, The Eastern Catholic churches in communion with the Roman See, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches currently in schism with the Roman See in canonical principal, but not in schism on Apostolic succession, and the sacraments, and therefore retaining a valid priesthood, and the licit ability to sacrifice on behalf of their adherents to God, (which is the point of a priest), and to confect, and distribute the sacrament of Eucharist,and to bind and loose sin and teach faith and morals. There are other claimants who come close, but have given up their apostolic line over time.

    The one Church, as with the denominations are of course are all followers of Jesus Christ. Denominational confessions sprouting from the 16th century and founded by men instead of Christ have seemed to slide away in theology and philosophy from the ability to understand and hold the "both/ands" of Christian mystery which were already extant for 1500 + years in the Christian conscience and canon. So rather than faith AND works hold to faith ALONE (not a church teaching), instead of scripture AND tradition have gone to an understanding of scripture ALONE (not a church teaching).It goes on like this.

    I agree with the OP about grace. It is ALL grace. You won't get an argument on that account from any Catholic or EO. The Catholic and EO simply believes that by grace a change is made in the Christian, and shows itself in what the reformers CALL works. We also believe that the NORMATIVE and prescribed way to salvation is the way taught by the Lord. Baptism and the practice of the virtues because of the love given us by grace, and the commandments to Love God above all else, and to love neighbor as self, as well as the command to the apostles to baptize. Also His command to eat the body of Christ and drink His blood in order to have eternal life within us, and DO this in memory of Him.

    The Catholics and EO's have some in family business that will get sorted out by God as promised. (Primacy of the see of Peter to end quarrel; the procession of the Holy Spirit. and some things which are local and mostly already solved were it not for some hardness among some bishops from both camps. But these are not problems of "denomination". Each Catholic or EO Church can trace itself to one of the Apostles, and therefore Jesus Christ through the laying on of hands, and workings of the Holy Spirit since the resurrection. And, I might add in favor of the OP, that this succession, lineage and legitimacy is also clearly a grace of God.

    Peace to all
     
  18. stevenfrancis

    stevenfrancis Disciple

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  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The Catholic Church amended and expelled parts of the Apocrypha (Deuterocanonical books) shortly after Luther raised the issue, however.
     
  20. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    So then you would say that you would be fully dressed if you showed up to a wedding wearing nothing but dress shoes?

    The vast majority of what you post isn't from scripture, it's just bare assertion. Pick one of the instances where you say "The Bible says X, which means Y", and show where the Bible says so.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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