Jesus is the SON not the Father.

[OldShepherd]

Today at 09:49 PM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #199 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=676998#post676998)

hmm, it is strange that both the NIV and NASB both say:

3 The Lord is a Warrior. The Lord is His name

ant the KJV and NKJV both say:

3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Curious how 2 different interpretations of the same verse by 2 different groups of *experienced* translator, both came up with different translations.. :-S - is there more than one hebrew/greek source?

Not for this verse. That is why I don't put any stock in translations. Here is how the Jewish as in NONTRINITARIAN, translated the verse in 1910. A person can find a (per)version somewhere that will support almost anything. For example, the JW and LDS both have their own versions.

• 
  JPS Ex 15:3 The LORD is a man of war, The LORD is His name.

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/versions/1046264458-5696.html#3


out of 9 english translations, only 2 say "warrior" - strange!

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

yes, indeed! What can be more accurate than the original Hebrew??

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

edpobre - please read this site: http://www.examineiglesianicristo.com/

i found it quite enlightening!

 

[edpobre]

Yesterday at 12:55 PM OldShepherd said this in Post #200

Then why do you IGNORE the rest of the New Testament? Tell me how your cult translation of Acts 2:22 HARMONIZES with the rest of the New Testament.

For the benefit of your followers El Pobre, tell them how YOUR version of Acts 2:22 is NOT a MISTRANSLATION in the light the rest of the New Testament.

For once be HONEST Ed!

Do you know what being HONEST means OldShepherd?

Doesn't Acts 2:22 say that Jesus is a MAN? How about Acts 17:31, OldShepherd, doesn't it say that Jesus is a MAN? How about Rom. 5:15, OldShepherd, doesn't it say Jesus is a MAN? How about 1 Tim. 2:5, OldShepherd, doesn't it say Jesus is a MAN?

And how about John 8:40, OldShepherd, doesn't Jesus SAY he is a MAN?

HONESTLY OldShepherd, how does your Hebrew Bible render Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9? Do they teach that God is a MAN?

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Yesterday at 01:01 PM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #202

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/versions/1046264458-5696.html#3


out of 9 english translations, only 2 say "warrior" - strange!

Why should you find this strange my friend? Jesus taught that "wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads the way to destruction and MANY go in by it" (Matt. 7:13).

Just because 7 out of 9 english translations of Exo. 15:3 render it as "the Lord is a MAN" does NOT mean this translation is correct. The two other versions which render the verse as "warrior" are in HARMONY with the rest of scripture which SAY that God is NOT a MAN!

Ed

 

[EveOfGrace]

If Jesus were God, why does he HAVE to be born? Why does he HAVE to INHERIT something? And what is it that he will INHERIT? Isn't EVERYTHING from God?

Ever heard of a kinsman redeemer?  God gave Adam(MAN) dominion over the creation and Adam forfeited.  Did you think God would just say, oh well forget it, i will let satan have it and to hell with Man?  He loves the world too much for that. So He GAVE His only BEGOTTEN Son.    

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

edpobre - are you blind? read that link already

 

[edpobre]

28th February 2003 at 01:05 AM EveOfGrace said this in Post #207

If Jesus were God, why does he HAVE to be born? Why does he HAVE to INHERIT something? And what is it that he will INHERIT? Isn't EVERYTHING from God?

Ever heard of a kinsman redeemer?

No, EveOfGrace, I haven't heard of "kinsman redeemer." Whose "invention" is this?

God gave Adam(MAN) dominion over the creation and Adam forfeited.  Did you think God would just say, oh well forget it, i will let satan have it and to hell with Man?  He loves the world too much for that. So He GAVE His only BEGOTTEN Son.

Are you telling me that God GAVE Himself (meaning, He is also the Son) or GAVE a God OTHER than Himself?

At any rate, please answer my questions. Why did God have to be born? Why does God have to INHERIT something? What is it that God will INHERIT? From WHOM will God INHERIT this something?

Ed




 

 

[edpobre]

28th February 2003 at 10:31 AM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #208

edpobre - are you blind? read that link already

OldoMiNION - please read John 8:40 and John 17:1,3 and tell me if you SEE what these verses mean. Then we'll SEE who is truly BLIND and who is NOT!

Ed

 

[EveOfGrace]

No, EveOfGrace, I haven't heard of "kinsman redeemer." Whose "invention" is this?

The Jews.  I am not sure WHEN they invented it, but it goes back a few thousand years.  I was thinking that you did know what that was, which would explain in part anyway, why Jesus had to be born, what He inherits and why.  

In Jewish law, if a man forfeits property the new owner has ownership for 6 years at which time, in the 7th, the previous owner may redeem it back to himself.  If, however, the owner cannot meet qualifications, a next of kin may step up and get back the property. This next of kin is known as a 'kinsman redeemer'.

Jesus is ours.

Okay, so why did He have to be born?  That would be the 'kinsman' part. God gave the creation to Adam(Man) as i said already, and being a man is what makes Jesus our kinsman, next of kin, brother, firstborn, son of MAN.  He is the second Adam. 

What does He inherit? The creation that God made in the beginning, that they then gave to Adam.  Its right there in Genesis. Anyway, that is why the verse you quoted sais: The firstborn of creation, the image of the invisible God(Let US make man in OUR image). The only way to redeem the earth back from satan and man back to God is through a sinless Adam(Man). So He had to be born of flesh.

  

Are you telling me that God GAVE Himself (meaning, He is also the Son)

Precisely.  He came down from heaven, took on flesh, remained sinless, became a Lamb without blemish, shed His blood and returned to heaven with the glory He had before.  All to redeem the earth, and us. God is our Savior. Jesus was the Word, which created all things. When the Holy Spirit came upon Mary, the Word then became Son which of course requires a Father.  Kinda like when your mom became pregnant, your dad was not dad until that moment.  Before, you were still IN your father, and in fact were him. You however can not return, since your entire nature is flesh and REproduces.  God is Spirit, and as long as Jesus did not sin, He remained IN His Father and the Father IN Him. The flesh nature, the tabernacle(dwelt) that held Him, was what made it possible for God to become our redeemer.

God is Father. God is Son. God is Spirit.  Where One is, so is 3. All part of the plan.

Let US make man in OUR image.

 

 

[TorahsDisciple]

8th September 2001 at 12:11 PM edpobre said this in Post #1

Friends,

A lot of people mistakenly believe that Jesus is also the Father and therefore believe that "he and the Father are one and the same God."

This is a false belief that can only lead to the lake of fire.


Ed

ED

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!  And it is nice to see some people having the intelligence and courage to stand up and speak the truth of G_D's word..at least on one subject.

 

 

[Jase]

I didn't read the whole thread caues its too long but Jesus and God the Father are one in the same, in that they are both God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Berfore Abraham was, I am. [God called himself I am to Moses in the OT]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy spirit are all one God.  It's like matter. Matter has 3 basic forms solid, liquid, and gas - yet are not all 3 matter? Or time. Time has past, present, and future but all 3 are of time.

Jesus is called Son of God, not because he is God the Fathers biological Son - but by taking the form of human on Earth - Jesus lowered himself slightly below God the Father. As we are children of God - Jesus is the only true Son because he is God in the flesh.

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

[edit]Edit - sorry.. removed - i was just annoyed when i posted it[/edit]

 

[MizDoulos]

Since everyone has his own opinion, let's learn to respect each other and respond kindly. If anyone feels he cannot contribute in a possitive manner, please move on to other threads.

Thank you.


[noflame][/noflame]

 

[Job_38]

The word beget is rather interesting. Because it means to procreate. It does not mean to make. A scuplture can make a statue, but he can only beget a human.

Can something beget something other than what it is?

 

[EveOfGrace]

Can something beget something other than what it is?

Hmm, like inside the watermelon is watermelon seeds, which creates more watermelon.

Then cats make cats. Fathers make sons. God makes.........God.  

that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.(2Cor5:19)

 

 

[edpobre]

2nd March 2003 at 02:33 PM Jase said this in Post #213

I didn't read the whole thread caues its too long but Jesus and God the Father are one in the same, in that they are both God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Berfore Abraham was, I am. [God called himself I am to Moses in the OT]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy spirit are all one God.  It's like matter. Matter has 3 basic forms solid, liquid, and gas - yet are not all 3 matter? Or time. Time has past, present, and future but all 3 are of time.

Jesus is called Son of God, not because he is God the Fathers biological Son - but by taking the form of human on Earth - Jesus lowered himself slightly below God the Father. As we are children of God - Jesus is the only true Son because he is God in the flesh.

Jase,

Jesus SAID he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:1,3).

Anyone who does NOT believe in Jesus is CONDEMNED already (John 3:18) and does NOT have life (John 3:36).

Therefore, the verses you quoted MUST be interpreted DIFFERENTLY to harmonize with what Jesus SAID in John 8:40 and John 17:3.

Ed

 

 




 

 

[edpobre]

2nd March 2003 at 11:31 PM Job_38 said this in Post #216

The word beget is rather interesting. Because it means to procreate. It does not mean to make. A scuplture can make a statue, but he can only beget a human.

Can something beget something other than what it is?

Maybe not Job38 but you are NOT the SAVIOR. And the SAVIOR says that anyone who does NOT believe him is CONDEMNED already (John 3:18) and does NOT have life (John 10:36).

The SAVIOR says that he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:1,3).

Will you SAVE me if I BELIEVE what you are telling me?

Ed

 

[edpobre]

3rd March 2003 at 05:34 AM EveOfGrace said this in Post #217

Hmm, like inside the watermelon is watermelon seeds, which creates more watermelon.

Then cats make cats. Fathers make sons. God makes.........God.  

that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.(2Cor5:19)

 

EveOfGrace,

You are just as easily DECEIVED as your namesake in the garden of Eden.

Have you forgotten what Jesus SAID about BELIEVING him? Jesus SAID: "...whoever BELIEVES in him shall  NOT perish but shall HAVE everlasting life" (John 3:16). And "anyone who does NOT believe him is CONDEMNED already" (John 3:18) "...and does NOT have life" (John 3:36).

Job38 is NOT the SAVIOR. The SAVIOR is Jesus and Jesus says that he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:1,3).

Will Job38 SAVE you if you BELIEVE what he is telling you?

Ed