Jesus is the Archangel Michael??

[mmksparbud]

Bible NEVER calls Jesus as Michael!

LOL! Whatever you say. The bible never calls Captain of the Host as Jesus. Never says the Angel of the Lord is Jesus. And?

 

[Major1]

1. himself, herself, themselves, itself
2. he, she, it

'same' is merely the THIRD one down from that.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

If you inject your "THE SAME" for autos -- then it is "The Lord THE SAME as???" as heaven? as descending? as a shout?? as the archangel??

the point remains.

As usual, I disagree.

 

[Major1]

LOL! Whatever you say. The bible never calls Captain of the Host as Jesus. Never says the Angel of the Lord is Jesus. And?

The name “LORD of hosts” occurs some 261 times in the Old Testament Scriptures.

God is first called the “LORD of hosts” in 1 Samuel 1:3.

The word LORD, capitalized, refers to Yahweh, the self-existent, redemptive God.

The word hosts is a translation of the Hebrew word sabaoth, meaning “armies”—a reference to the angelic armies of heaven.

Thus, another way of saying “LORD of hosts” is “God of the armies of heaven.”

The NIV translates YHWH as "saboath “ = LORD Almighty.”

NO WHERE in the Word of God are those words said of Michael or any other angle.

"Study to show thyself approved".

 

[Major1]

you disproved your own statement - Michael and HIS angels,Rev 12, "Let all the angles of God worship HIM" Heb 1 -- HE is the one with HIS angels that is at war "with the devil and HIS angels"

2 Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus

It is Jesus in Rev 12 and 2Thess 1 with "HIS angels" for HE is "THE Angel of the LORD" Michael THE Archangel, infinite God, the second person of the Godhead.

NOPE!

Rev. 12 clearly say that Michael is included with all the angels. That scripture does not say anything about Michael being the Christ. THAT IS WHAT YOU are trying to make it say.

Michael is an angle who with the other angels had a war with Satan to remove him from heaven.

Rev. 12:7......
"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back."

NOT ONE SINGLE WORD THAT CALLS MICHAEL THE CHRIST.

You failed to post the Scripture from Hebrews 1 so I will not guess at what you think.

Jesus Christ IS NOT the ONE who is seen in Revelation 12:7. The Scripture literally says..."MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS.....".

To say that Michael is Jesus Christ simply because there are the words..."And his angels" is some of the worst exegesis I have seen....however, it is what the lengths the SDA people go to to try and validate there fasle teachings.

The very same thing applies to 2 Thess 1"6-7.

"For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,"

You are basing your whole theology on "With his angels" as compared with Rev. 12:7.

You my friend are very incorrect. That is what your SDA brothers have taught you so as to keep there false teaching in tact but it is not what those Scriptures are saying.

Now allow me to show all of you the depth at which you are going to to prove YOUR SDA teaching. I am amazed at how deceitful some people can be over these things.

Now notice what Ol Bob did with his posting of Scriptures.

LOOK at Revelation 12:7 & notice what he did with the phrase "and His angels".[FONT=verdana,Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT]
DO you see it. He CAPITALIZED the letter "H" meaning deity.
It is very subtle but effective and he is suggesting that Michael is the God MAN Jesus Christ.

However, Now look at......
Revelation 12:7
"Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

Punch in Revelation 17:7 and you will see about 50 translations AND NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS THE "h" IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

Michael is one of many angels but he IS NOT JESUS CHRIST.​

 

[mmksparbud]

The name “LORD of hosts” occurs some 261 times in the Old Testament Scriptures.

God is first called the “LORD of hosts” in 1 Samuel 1:3.

The word LORD, capitalized, refers to Yahweh, the self-existent, redemptive God.

The word hosts is a translation of the Hebrew word sabaoth, meaning “armies”—a reference to the angelic armies of heaven.

Thus, another way of saying “LORD of hosts” is “God of the armies of heaven.”

The NIV translates YHWH as "saboath “ = LORD Almighty.”

NO WHERE in the Word of God are those words said of Michael or any other angle.

"Study to show thyself approved".

Not one verse states that the Lord of the host is Jesus. Not one verse states that the Captain of the host if Jesus, not one verse states that the angel of the Lord is Jesus.
Captain---head of---arch---head of---Host---same as angels---Captain of the hosts---head of the host---
archangel, head of angels, Michael, one who is like God. God shouts with the voice of the archangel.
"Study to show thyself approved."
You do not have to believe as I see it. I do not have to believe as you see. My reasons are every bit as compelling to me as yours are to you. 16 pages so far, just on this thread, There have been many others-----never anything new said on either side.

 

[Major1]

Not one verse states that the Lord of the host is Jesus. Not one verse states that the Captain of the host if Jesus, not one verse states that the angel of the Lord is Jesus.
Captain---head of---arch---head of---Host---same as angels---Captain of the hosts---head of the host---
archangel, head of angels, Michael, one who is like God. God shouts with the voice of the archangel.
"Study to show thyself approved."
You do not have to believe as I see it. I do not have to believe as you see. My reasons are every bit as compelling to me as yours are to you. 16 pages so far, just on this thread, There have been many others-----never anything new said on either side.

The name “LORD of hosts” occurs some 261 times in the Old Testament Scriptures.

God is first called the “LORD of hosts” in 1 Samuel 1:3.

The word LORD, capitalized, refers to Yahweh, the self-existent, redemptive God.

The word hosts is a translation of the Hebrew word sabaoth, meaning “armies”—a reference to the angelic armies of heaven.

Thus, another way of saying “LORD of hosts” is “God of the armies of heaven.”

The NIV translates YHWH as "saboath “ = LORD Almighty.”

NO WHERE in the Word of God are those words said of Michael or any other angle.

 

[mmksparbud]

The name “LORD of hosts” occurs some 261 times in the Old Testament Scriptures.

God is first called the “LORD of hosts” in 1 Samuel 1:3.

The word LORD, capitalized, refers to Yahweh, the self-existent, redemptive God.

The word hosts is a translation of the Hebrew word sabaoth, meaning “armies”—a reference to the angelic armies of heaven.

Thus, another way of saying “LORD of hosts” is “God of the armies of heaven.”

The NIV translates YHWH as "saboath “ = LORD Almighty.”

NO WHERE in the Word of God are those words said of Michael or any other angle.

LOL!! Michael is mentioned 5 times in the whole bible---as this being, the name is used by many besides Him---as is Jesus. Archangel is mentioned twice. And? I AM, as that, was used once in the OT and once in the NT. Unless something got by! Does frequency of use somehow make something more important or holy?? You are repeating yourself--- and I will repeat myself---
Michael, One who is like God. arch---head, chief, ruler, Captain of the Host=archangel. God comes with the voice of the archangel---You are free to believe Donald Duck is God---matters not to me---I am free to accept what the bible says and believe that Michael is another name, another title for Jesus. And ONLY He will convince me otherwise!! He is the only Prince I have, you can claim an angel as your Prince if you want.

 

[Major1]

LOL!! Michael is mentioned 5 times in the whole bible---as this being, the name is used by many besides Him---as is Jesus. Archangel is mentioned twice. And? I AM, as that, was used once in the OT and once in the NT. Unless something got by! Does frequency of use somehow make something more important or holy?? You are repeating yourself--- and I will repeat myself---
Michael, One who is like God. arch---head, chief, ruler, Captain of the Host=archangel. God comes with the voice of the archangel---You are free to believe Donald Duck is God---matters not to me---I am free to accept what the bible says and believe that Michael is another name, another title for Jesus. And ONLY He will convince me otherwise!! He is the only Prince I have, you can claim an angel as your Prince if you want.

Yes you are free to believe as you wish. That is one of the wonderful things God did for humanity......the freedom of choice.

However, with freedom of choice comes the accountability for those choices.

“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.”

SOURCE: Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA; Commentary V, p. 1129)

Ellen G. White said He was Michael, so if they changed this, they'd need to reject her as "the spirit of prophecy" and they'd not be the remnant church! So now they hold He's both God the Son, and Michael. In fact, Ellen G. White DENIED the deity of Jesus, who in 1903 said, “The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty” (ms 140, SDA Commentary V, p. 1129).

Yet, modern SDA claim to believe in Jesus' deity and the Godhead in their official statement of faith (SDA Believe, # 2 and 4).

To make these aberrant views appear as Biblical, the SDA’s 1994 Clear Word Bible has changed the text to make Jesus Michael the Archangel in 1st Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 12:7 and Jude 9; and to make Him to be a mighty angel in Revelation 10:1,5,8 & 10. This is because in her comments on Revelation chapters 1, 8, and 10, Ellen White identified these angels in Revelation as also being Jesus Christ! (SDA Commentary VII, 971+978; ms15, 1897; ms 59).
Seventh-Day Adventists Teach Jesus is Michael

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus descends with the Archangel with him,

That would be good quote "Archangel WITH Jesus" or "With Him"...let's find it.

 

[BobRyan]

Michael is an angel just as Gabriel is an angel. There is no justification to say Michael is applied to Jesus or Jesus to Michael.

Rev. 12:7...….
“And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought”
.

you disproved your own statement - Michael and HIS angels,Rev 12, "Let all the angles of God worship HIM" Heb 1 -- HE is the one with HIS angels that is at war "with the devil and HIS angels"

2 Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus

It is Jesus in Rev 12 and 2Thess 1 with "HIS angels" for HE is "THE Angel of the LORD" Michael THE Archangel, infinite God, the second person of the Godhead.

NOPE!

Yep.

Rev. 12:7......
"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back."


The very same thing applies to 2 Thess 1"6-7.

"For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,"

Now allow me to show all of you the depth at which you are going to to prove YOUR SDA teaching. ​

Turns out - this is not one of our 28 fundamental beliefs -- and never has been. ​

 

[Daniel Marsh]

That would be good quote "Archangel WITH Jesus" or "With Him"...let's find it.

The word with means????

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus descends with the Archangel with him,

That would be good quote "Archangel WITH Jesus" or "With Him"...let's find it.

The word with means????

1 Thess 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

John 5
26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes you are free to believe as you wish. That is one of the wonderful things God did for humanity......the freedom of choice.

Amen - free will. That is the system that God sovereignly chose.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is none the less true that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” [John 3:16.]" Ms 140, 1903

Rest of the quote has a contradiction. God Bless, Daniel Marsh

The quote appears in her writings at

94% 5BC 1129.7 (SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5 (EGW))
... one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that ...

2EGW1988
94% LHU 48.6 (Lift Him Up)
The mystery of the incarnation of Christ, the account of His sufferings, ...

3EGW1988
94% LHU 235.3 (Lift Him Up)
... one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that ...

4EGW1895
69% RH June 18, 1895, par. 4 (The Review and Herald)
The mystery of the incarnation of Christ, the account of his sufferings ...

5EGW1897
63% YI February 11, 1897, par. 6 (The Youth’s Instructor)
... opens to them the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. But unless the bright ...

6EGW1895
57% Ms16-1895 (October 20, 1895) par. 29 (Ms 16, 1895)
... , and we learn the mystery of the incarnation of Christ, and the great sacrifice ...

7EGW1895
51% Ms45-1895, par. 22 (Ms 45, 1895)
The mystery of the incarnation of Christ, the account of His sufferings, ...

8EGW1903
45% Ms140-1903 (September 27, 1903) par. 28 (Ms 140, 1903)
... one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that ...

Search was done at
Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages: "mystery of the incarnation of Christ" Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages:[{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%274%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%271227%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%275%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%278%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%279%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%2710%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%27253%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%2714%27}])

 

[BobRyan]

"There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men.

Nice quote... !!

I have quotes too..

The world was made by him, “and without him was not anything made that was made.” If Christ made all things, he existed before all things. The words spoken in regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.... {7ABC 438.1}


The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son, and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both.—Patriarchs and Prophets, 36. {7ABC 438.3}

Rest of the quote has a contradiction. God Bless, Daniel Marsh

rest of the quote has a clarification affirming that Jesus is God the Son - second person of the Godhead

In contemplating the incarnation of Christ in humanity, we stand baffled before an unfathomable mystery, that the human mind cannot comprehend. The more we reflect upon it, the more amazing does it appear. How wide is the contrast between the divinity of Christ and the helpless infant in Bethlehem’s manger! How can we span the distance between the mighty God and a helpless child? And yet the Creator of worlds, He in whom was the fullness of the Godhead bodily, was manifest in the helpless babe in the manger. Far higher than any of the angels, equal with the Father in dignity and glory, and yet wearing the garb of humanity! Divinity and humanity were mysteriously combined, and man and God became one. It is in this union that we find the hope of our fallen race. Looking upon Christ in humanity, we look upon God, and see in Him the brightness of His glory, the express image of His person.—The Signs of the Times, July 30, 1896. {7ABC 443.4}


The divine mind and hand have preserved through the ages the record of creation in its purity. It is the word of God alone that gives to us an authentic account of the creation of our world. This word is to be the chief study in our schools. In it we may learn what our redemption has cost Him who from the beginning was equal with the Father, and who sacrificed His life that a people might stand before Him redeemed from everything earthly, renewed in the image of God. {CT 13.2}

 

[Dale]

SDA believes in soul sleep, Moses and Enoch at the Transfiguration is a problem for them.
The text does not say they were resurrected to appear there. Isa 14 is about the king of babylon and the dead greet him after he died in the underworld.

You've hi the nail on the head, Daniel!

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes you are free to believe as you wish. That is one of the wonderful things God did for humanity......the freedom of choice.

However, with freedom of choice comes the accountability for those choices.

“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.”

SOURCE: Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA; Commentary V, p. 1129)

Ellen G. White said He was Michael, so if they changed this, they'd need to reject her as "the spirit of prophecy" and they'd not be the remnant church! So now they hold He's both God the Son, and Michael. In fact, Ellen G. White DENIED the deity of Jesus, who in 1903 said, “The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty” (ms 140, SDA Commentary V, p. 1129).

Yet, modern SDA claim to believe in Jesus' deity and the Godhead in their official statement of faith (SDA Believe, # 2 and 4).

To make these aberrant views appear as Biblical, the SDA’s 1994 Clear Word Bible has changed the text to make Jesus Michael the Archangel in 1st Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 12:7 and Jude 9; and to make Him to be a mighty angel in Revelation 10:1,5,8 & 10. This is because in her comments on Revelation chapters 1, 8, and 10, Ellen White identified these angels in Revelation as also being Jesus Christ! (SDA Commentary VII, 971+978; ms15, 1897; ms 59).
Seventh-Day Adventists Teach Jesus is Michael

LOL!! You must have stayed up all night to find this one!! Why didn't you quote the whole thing?

There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is none the less true that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” [John 3:16.] 18LtMs, Ms 140, 1903, par. 28

Jesus came as fully man, and fully God. As fully man, no---He was not God Almighty! He was 100% man---the operative word is YET "Christ AND THE FATHER ARE ONE!!!"

Why did you leave this out??
In His divinity Jesus is fully God---in His humanity Jesus is fully human. Just exactly what is so startling about that?? You are not only omiting some things she has said---but also putting in meanings that she never said. Get a grip.

 

[YeshuaFan]

LOL! Whatever you say. The bible never calls Captain of the Host as Jesus. Never says the Angel of the Lord is Jesus. And?

Angel of the Lord speaks for and acts in the place of Yahweh, is also God!

 

[YeshuaFan]

you disproved your own statement - Michael and HIS angels,Rev 12, "Let all the angles of God worship HIM" Heb 1 -- HE is the one with HIS angels that is at war "with the devil and HIS angels"

2 Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus

It is Jesus in Rev 12 and 2Thess 1 with "HIS angels" for HE is "THE Angel of the LORD" Michael THE Archangel, infinite God, the second person of the Godhead.



Yep.

Rev. 12:7......
"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back."


The very same thing applies to 2 Thess 1"6-7.

"For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,"



Turns out - this is not one of our 28 fundamental beliefs -- and never has been. ​

Jesus God, while Michael was and gas been only an Angel!

 

[YeshuaFan]

"There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is none the less true that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” [John 3:16.]" Ms 140, 1903

Rest of the quote has a contradiction. God Bless, Daniel Marsh

The quote appears in her writings at

94% 5BC 1129.7 (SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5 (EGW))
... one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that ...

2EGW1988
94% LHU 48.6 (Lift Him Up)
The mystery of the incarnation of Christ, the account of His sufferings, ...

3EGW1988
94% LHU 235.3 (Lift Him Up)
... one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that ...

4EGW1895
69% RH June 18, 1895, par. 4 (The Review and Herald)
The mystery of the incarnation of Christ, the account of his sufferings ...

5EGW1897
63% YI February 11, 1897, par. 6 (The Youth’s Instructor)
... opens to them the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. But unless the bright ...

6EGW1895
57% Ms16-1895 (October 20, 1895) par. 29 (Ms 16, 1895)
... , and we learn the mystery of the incarnation of Christ, and the great sacrifice ...

7EGW1895
51% Ms45-1895, par. 22 (Ms 45, 1895)
The mystery of the incarnation of Christ, the account of His sufferings, ...

8EGW1903
45% Ms140-1903 (September 27, 1903) par. 28 (Ms 140, 1903)
... one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that ...

Search was done at
Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages: "mystery of the incarnation of Christ" Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages:[{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%274%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%271227%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%275%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%278%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%279%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%2710%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%27253%27},{%27type%27:%27folder%27,%27key%27:%2714%27}])

She seemed to see Jesus same way JW do!