Jesus is saying what?

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Lost4words

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Where does it say that we're supposed to be literal cannibals?

You are bringing up cannibalism, not me my friend.

Tell me, what does this scripture mean to you. What is Jesus saying to you?

John 6:53-55

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed
 
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Lost4words

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Sola scriptura. I am not a Catholic, so the above doesn't resonate with me nor with what the Bible says.

Ignatius didn't write any of the canon of Scripture.

J. N. D. Kelly wrote "Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood”. So? Because the Eucharistic teaching was "in general unquestioningly realist" doesn't mean it's true. It's nothing more than a comment about the observance of a ritual.

J. N. D. Kelly didn't write any of the canon of Scripture. ;)
 
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mlepfitjw

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Lost4words, it is the same thing, Jesus is the bread of life so you can consume his words by reading them, to drink his blood would be to accept his death on the cross, that is the way it is seen by me personally. Lost4words, at a church called Church of Christ, every Sunday they have the remembering of Jesus Christ and his death, they eat crackers, and drink grape juice.

There is nothing wrong with people if they desire to do that, there are brothers and sisters in Christ who do that because it is been a tradition of theirs for a long time and that is totally okay.

Thank you for sharing, Lost4Words, and you have a good night sir.

God bless all and your families.
 
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pescador

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You are bringing up cannibalism, not me my friend.

Tell me, what does this scripture mean to you. What is Jesus saying to you?

John 6:53-55

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed

If you really want to know what I think -- although that's doubtful since you're Catholic and I'm Protestant...

Jesus isn't saying that we literally should devour Him as cannibals. John 6:48-51, " I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that has come down from heaven, so that a person may eat from it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats from this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

Jesus calls Himself "the living bread that came down from heaven". Yet He says that "the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh." Now we all know that it wasn't a loaf of bread that was crucified, so Jesus is obviously speaking here and elsewhere about symbolic bread. Jesus clearly wants us to remember His sacrifice and the removal of the penalty for sin by eating bread -- His body, symbolically -- and to drink wine -- His blood symbolically. He created a ritual that allowed us to remember and be thankful for the sacrifice He made on our behalf.

If people are literally devouring Jesus' actual body and drinking His actual blood, they will be arrested for cannibalism.

What is the problem with remembering what the Lord did for us by re-enacting His meal that He shared with His disciples instead of pretending that Jesus -- fully human sitting at the right hand of God -- has somehow been transformed into common food that you claim is His true body? Are you really saying that our Lord's body has become bread that is eaten simultaneously in churches all over the planet? Really?? Is that what you reduce the Lord to --bread and wine -- instead of the glorified Christ who is with God as you read this?

Jesus is my living, breathing Savior. Since I am a Christian I am part of His body (of which He is the head), so are you saying that I am actually eating myself? Really?
 
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pescador

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J. N. D. Kelly didn't write any of the canon of Scripture. ;)

I was quoting what Lost4Words wrote about J. N. D. Kelly in an earlier post, so stop twisting my words.

None of your "church fathers", including all the Popes that have ever lived, the Cardinals, Bishops, or Priests wrote any of the canon of Scripture. So why do you believe them?
 
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Lost4words

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I was quoting what Lost4Words wrote about J. N. D. Kelly in an earlier post, so stop twisting my words.

None of your "church fathers", including all the Popes that have ever lived, the Cardinals, Bishops, or Priests wrote any of the canon of Scripture. So why do you believe them?

They, all believed in the real presence. None of them were protestant. ;)

Protestantism was born not so long ago remember. It is only the protestant that doesnt believe in the real presence. The Catholic / Orthodox have existed since the birth of Christianity. 1500 years or so 'before' protestantism.

Some of the early church fathers who believe in the real presence were taught by the Apostles!

Obviously, you interpret John 6:53-55 very differently to the early church fathers, Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
 
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Lost4words

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I was quoting what Lost4Words wrote about J. N. D. Kelly in an earlier post, so stop twisting my words.

None of your "church fathers", including all the Popes that have ever lived, the Cardinals, Bishops, or Priests wrote any of the canon of Scripture. So why do you believe them?

'You' didnt write scripture. So why should i believe you?

Like i said, some of the early church fathers, who believed in the real presence, were taught by the Apostles. So, who should i believe? You or them? ;)
 
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Taodeching

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Lost4words, it is the same thing, Jesus is the bread of life so you can consume his words by reading them

Except Christ instructed us to drink His blood and eat His bod and His extortion is other places, the Ancient Christians never doubted Christ presence in the elements it is just that many modern Christians refuse to acknowledge what Christ extolled us to do. If Christ wanted us to consume His words only He would have made that very clear, He did make very clear to consume His Body and Blood in the elements yet many modern Christians refuse to do as Christ says
 
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Lost4words

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Except Christ instructed us to drink His blood and eat His bod and His extortion is other places, the Ancient Christians never doubted Christ presence in the elements it is just that many modern Christians refuse to acknowledge what Christ extolled us to do. If Christ wanted us to consume His words only He would have made that very clear, He did make very clear to consume His Body and Blood in the elements yet many modern Christians refuse to do as Christ says

Totally agree.

It is only since the reformation that Christiance have refused to believe in the real presence.
 
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Anthony2019

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Totally agree.

It is only since the reformation that Christiance have refused to believe in the real presence.
And I think it's worth mentioning that not only the context of Jesus and Paul's words implies that they meant them literally, but also the Real Presence in the Eucharist is very clearly foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

The Real Presence is entirely biblical.
 
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mlepfitjw

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Do whatever it is your heart you believe is right: there is no judgement from me personally.

And let us never forget who is right and true and the truth the life and the way. Nothing lost but our own ways when we come to the Lord Christ Jesus over our own selves. Love God and Love others (regardless of denominations or anything else) pray and be thankful for without Jesus there would be no light, no hope, no forgiveness, no resurrection. The real presence of the Son of God, and Lord and Savior Christ Jesus living with-in you is true. Take care.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

To divide on doctrines or what you believe is a mistake on our humanistic ways, that causes disunity with-in the body when are to be in one mind and unity with each other.

1 Corinthians 1: 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.

We all agree and believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ the Lord came down from heaven, died, and was risen by God on the third day, and believe that in our hearts.

Romans 10: 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Remember what God's will for us is in Christ Jesus.

1 Thess 5: 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

12 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14 And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
 
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Davy

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Hello you and welcome this text


“Then the people began arguing with each other about what he meant. “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” they asked. So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did (even though they ate the manna) but will live forever.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:52-58‬ ‭NLT‬‬


Is the flesh of Jesus living on off his words - the bread of life?

Is drinking of blood a metaphor for accepting of his death for all sins — ?

that is what I have personally come to accept and believe.

Curious of other peoples thoughts. Thank you.

Or course it's a metaphor. That's why He used a loaf of real bread and cup of real wine as representations of His Blood and Body.
 
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pescador

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'You' didnt write scripture. So why should i believe you?

Like i said, some of the early church fathers, who believed in the real presence, were taught by the Apostles. So, who should i believe? You or them? ;)

This is really a unusual post from you IMHO. You wrote that I didn't write Scripture so why should I be believed. Congratulations!! Welcome to Sola Scriptura!!

None of the early church fathers wrote any Scripture so why should they be believed? If it's not in the Bible it's just add-ons that have little weight in arriving at the truth.

Now let me tell you a secret: you too can be taught directly by the Apostles (or by those who had first person knowledge of their lives). Can you guess where? The Bible! Not in some cathedral taught by fallible men, but in the infallible Word of God.

 
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BNR32FAN

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Hello you and welcome this text


“Then the people began arguing with each other about what he meant. “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” they asked. So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did (even though they ate the manna) but will live forever.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:52-58‬ ‭NLT‬‬


Is the flesh of Jesus living on off his words - the bread of life?

Is drinking of blood a metaphor for accepting of his death for all sins — ?

that is what I have personally come to accept and believe.

Curious of other peoples thoughts. Thank you.

Yes I think that’s close to it I see it as receiving Christ within us so that He becomes a part of us. I also believe He chose this particular analogy to separate the sheep from the goats so to speak. It seems to me that it was His intention to drive away those who didn’t believe which is why the more they grumbled about eating His flesh and drinking His blood the harder He pushed the idea.
 
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Lost4words

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This is really a unusual post from you IMHO. You wrote that I didn't write Scripture so why should I be believed. Congratulations!! Welcome to Sola Scriptura!!

None of the early church fathers wrote any Scripture so why should they be believed? If it's not in the Bible it's just add-ons that have little weight in arriving at the truth.

Now let me tell you a secret: you too can be taught directly by the Apostles (or by those who had first person knowledge of their lives). Can you guess where? The Bible! Not in some cathedral taught by fallible men, but in the infallible Word of God.

So, my friend, 'your' interpretation is above that of some of the early church fathers who were taught by the Apostles? They believed in the real presence.
 
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pescador

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So, my friend, 'your' interpretation is above that of some of the early church fathers who were taught by the Apostles? They believed in the real presence.

No, my understanding comes from the only infallible, trustworthy source: The Bible. As I wrote earlier, we have the Bible -- the inerrant Word of God -- written by people under the direction of the Holy Spirit. The "early church fathers" were just men; they were not infallible. Perhaps they were taught by the Apostles, but they were not the Apostles. Fortunately, we have the words of the Apostles (and others) preserved for us in the only infallible, trustworthy source: The Bible.

It's not important to me that the early Catholic "fathers" -- Matthew 23:8-9, “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. -- believed in the actual presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They were just fallible men.
 
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Lost4words

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No, my understanding comes from the only infallible, trustworthy source: The Bible. As I wrote earlier, we have the Bible -- the inerrant Word of God -- written by people under the direction of the Holy Spirit. The "early church fathers" were just men; they were not infallible. Perhaps they were taught by the Apostles, but they were not the Apostles. Fortunately, we have the words of the Apostles (and others) preserved for us in the only infallible, trustworthy source: The Bible.

It's not important to me that the early Catholic "fathers" -- Matthew 23:8-9, “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. -- believed in the actual presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They were just fallible men.

:doh:

God bless you
 
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Taodeching

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Totally agree.

It is only since the reformation that Christiance have refused to believe in the real presence.

Also since then many Christians try to make Christianity relative by assuming it is okay to believe whatever is right in your own heart just like the world does what is right in it's own sight. Many desire a worldly Christianity where belief is anything they say making truth subjective to their individual whims.
 
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