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Featured Jesus is returning to reign on earth according to the OT prophets and His disciples

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Are you arguing that their TOMBS where ELSEWHERE than ON the EARTH ?

    After Jesus WAS crucified the City CEASED TO BE HOLY....Jesus FORETOLD Jerusalem's destruction in Matthew 23:37-39[left desolate] and Matthew 24:1-2 fulfilling Daniel 9:27......which happened in 70 AD.
    27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.





    -- The Heavenly Jerusalem will descend on the Earth AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  2. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    No. I'm arguing that the "Holy City" is somewhere else! Just as Abraham was NOT looking for an earthly city (as I quoted Hebrews 11:10), the "Holy City" those resurrected saints of Matthew 27:52-53 was not earthly Jerusalem. It was the heavenly...the "Jerusalem above" that Paul speaks of in Galatians 4:26 and the Jerusalem of Revelation 21:2. This is why the Matthew 27:52-53 passage stresses that AFTER Jesus resurrection, those saints went into the Holy City. Just as it is said in 1 Cor 15:50 stresses "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Those resurrected OT saints are the firstfruits of the resurrection. Christ cleared the way for them when He was resurrected!

    Here again you're making a category mistake Riberra. This prophecy is not future. Why do you omit Daniel 9:26, which is clearly speaking of Jesus?

    You're ignoring that even before that Paul is speaking of the Jerusalem above...and making it very clear SHE IS OUR MOTHER! Therefore...when we die and are absent from the body, present with the Lord we enter New Jerusalem which Jesus made a way for after His resurrection.
     
  3. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Your point is that their FLESH bodies of these OT Saints were resurrected elsewhere than on the Earth ...while the text say that they were SEEN rising from their TOMBS...AND they were SEEN entering the holy city.

    You are wrong to say that these OT Saints that were temporary resurrected [like Lazarus who died after] were the First Fruits .....the text say that JESUS -IS- the FIRST FRUITS THEN THOSE WHO ARE -IN CHRIST- AT HIS COMING.
    1 Corinthians 15
    20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    I have not said that Daniel 9:27 is future... - i said FULFILLING Daniel 9:27.

    everything about Daniel 70 weeks have been fulfilled ...Jesus have been cut off [killed] in the middle of the 70 TH week ...
    and finally the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD closed the part about the desolation from the people of the prince who shall come...

    The sentence that Paul use is WHEN WE DIE ....-WE- is referring to the believers when they DIE.

    That is OUR SOUL who goes to HEAVEN at this point....waiting for the Resurrection.
    -One MASSIVE resurrection will happen AT HIS COMING [Revelation 20:4-6...

    -The OTHER MASSIVE resurrection will happen 1,000 years after ie AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT [ Revelation 20:7-15]
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  4. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    No...the scripture doesn't say "flesh bodies" it says their "bodies" were raised. It is a resurrection because Jerusalem is not the holy city after the death of Christ. Once again the passage makes the point that this is AFTER Jesus resurrection they went into the holy city
    First, you're assuming this was a temporary resurrection. The many they appeared to are in the holy city above...the New Jerusalem...which is called the holy city in Revelation 21:2

    Second, notice the plurality in that passage..."THE FIRST FRUITS of those who have fallen asleep" as Matthew said "the bodies of saint's who had fallen asleep were raised". This is talk of Pentecost, also called "the feast of firstfruits". I stand on the OT saints raised AFTER Jesus resurrection, are the first fruits of resurrection along with Christ...who was raised first. They went with Christ into New Jerusalem.

    Thanks for the correction...my bad.

    Riberra, there is ONE final resurrection not two. Also there will be no literal 1000 year reign. Jesus is reigning RIGHT NOW. The term 1000 is figurative of Christ entire reign...after that He returns the reign to God the Father. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 makes it clear.
     
  5. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    The Bible tell us that Jesus ascended to Heaven 40 days AFTER HIS RESURRECTION.Can you show us the verses saying that those resurrected OT SAINTS have been seen with Jesus when Jesus ascended to Heaven ?
     
  6. Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

    Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 Active Member

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    Every time you pray

    Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

    Give us this day our daily bread.

    And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

    And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    Most people don't realise it but Jesus must come to earth to rule on throne of David because of God's promise . God can't break promise.
     
  7. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Once again...those saints went into the holy city after Jesus was resurrected. Heaven was opened to them Ribbera...else how could Jesus tell the thief on the cross "TODAY you will be with me in paradise"?
     
  8. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    You will have to deal with 1 Peter 3:18-20
    Jesus preached to the SPIRITS in prison (TARTARUS/HADES) [Luke 16:22-31]...during the 3 days His body was in the grave.

    We can conclude that The SPIRITS [of those dead people] who accepted Jesus ascended to Heaven ...while the SPIRITS who have not accepted Jesus stayed in Hades.


    1 Peter 3:18-20
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water (1 Peter 3:18-20).
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  9. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    1 Peter 3:18-20
    Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water (1 Peter 3:18-20).[/QUOTE]

    You do understand this was the first world...which God destroyed? I think you should read that passage carefully. Also look up the word for "prison" it is not tartarus or hades...the word used there is "phylakē". something very different from hell.

    Christ on the cross said "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

    God started again with Noah's family after the flood. Peter is speaking of those who died in the flood That's a difficult passage with a few different interpretations...but NO WHERE does it say Jesus went into hell...it says He preached to spirits in prison...and further these are those of Noah's day.
     
  10. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Whomever they were Jesus preached to the SPIRITS of those DEAD PEOPLE.

    The description of Hell/Hades given in the Bible is different that what you have been preached by your pastor....
    Luke 16:22-31
    22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.

    23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.

    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted and thou art in anguish.

    26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.

    27 And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house; 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

    29 But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.

    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  11. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Still Riberra, the point is this was the first world, destroyed by God. So it doesn't support your point. The OT saints went into 'the holy city" which was not earthly Jerusalem.
    Once again this doesn't support what you wish to use this passage to prove. Your point is "the spirits in prison" where in hell. Which the passage doesn't support it. The word for "prison" in the passage is none of the words used for hell in scripture. It is the word "phylakē" which if you study it...is NEVER translated hell so you miss the point of 1 Peter 3:18-20. Jesus didn't go to hell Riberra. There are many that teach that...but I disagree

    Furthermore to use the parable of Luke 16 (which Jesus is telling the parable and has not yet made the sacrifice for sin) is also wrong because it has no relevance because it's clearly speaking of hell. 1 Peter 3:18-20 doesn't say this was hell. I grant you prison could be used figuratively of hell...but I don't think that is the thrust of what Peter is saying there.

    Lastly, what makes you think this is my pastors teaching? Pastors are ordained by God to shepherd their flocks, but no where does scripture say believe what your pastor teaches. I do like the Berean saints did with Paul, I search the scripture to see if it agrees with any pastor/teacher. If what they teach lines up, I accept it.

    I agree with Augustine's teaching on 1 Peter 3:18-20. I encourage you to check into that.
     
  12. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    The text in Matthew 27:52 does NOT say that all the OT SAINTS were resurrected at that moment...it say many bodies of the saints.
    Matthew 27:52
    And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

    HADES is the place referenced in the Bible...more details below.
    Then,tell us what prison into which those SPIRITS were prisoners the text is talking about ?

    Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable, it talk about two well known individual [by the people of that time]who died and Jesus describe what happened to their spirit (soul).

    -Hades have nothing to do with the lake of fire.-

    The point is that in the place called HADES the SPIRITS of the good guys where in a area called Abraham's bosom while the bad guys were suffering in another section and they can see and talk each other.

    Those who accepted Jesus when Jesus came there to PREACH [we can safely say that all the SPIRITS of the good guys and girls accepted Jesus ] have ascended to Heaven at that moment or when Jesus ascended to Heaven 40 days later ....while the SPIRITS of the bad guys stayed there...suffering in anguish pain until the Great White Throne Judgment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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