1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

JESUS is not the archangel Michael !

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by robycop3, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +4,627
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    no ... angel has ever claimed to be God .... in doing so would be blasphemy .... Go read Exodus .... it says what it says .... described as an angel of the Lord ... and then God said .....
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +522
    Baptist
    Married
    Jesus is Jesus, the Son of God; Michael the archangel is a separate being. They are NOT the same being.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

    +535
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    God spoke Through the Angel But He is Not the Angel.. Just as God spoke to Us by His Son....Hebrews 1:2

    Acts 7:35..This is the same Moses they had rejected with the words, " who made you ruler and judge? He was sent to be their ruler and deliver by God Himself Through the Angel who appeared to him in the bush ( burning bush)...
     
  4. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,753
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    The angel is God

    Genesis 31:11-12
     
  5. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

    +535
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    God is Spirit...not an angel, rather God uses angel to approach man...No one has ever seen God except the Son John 1:18
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  6. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,753
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Angels are spirits, too

    Hebrews 1:14
    Jacob recognized the angel of Yahweh as his God

    Genesis 48:15-16
    The angel is Jacob’s God

    Genesis 32:30
    Hosea 3:12
    even Hosea calls the angel God
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  7. Malihah

    Malihah Member

    109
    +31
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Matthew Henry the famous Protestant theologian taught that Jesus and Michael the archangel are very likely the same entity. The description of Michael in Dan. 10 and Jesus in Rev. 1 are almost identical with a face like lightning, eyes like lamps of fire and skin like burning bronze. Also in Rev. 10 a mighty angel descends with a little book that is now opened and the only one allowed to open the book was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The word 'angel' means messenger and doesn't always mean an angelic being. Prior to the incarnation when Christ appeared to men he took the form of an angel which doesn't make him a created being in any sense of the word.
     
  8. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +4,627
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    That's why God appeared in a burning bush and placed Moses in the crevice of a rock ... no one has seen Gods face except the Son.

    Exodus 33:20
    And He added, "You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live."
     
  9. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +4,823
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Hebrews 1:4-8
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    The Son is distinguished from the angels. The Son was not made much better than the "other angels" but "the angels."
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    God never said to any angels "Thou art my son."
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    The Son is distinguished from "the angels" in this vs. God did not say "let all the 'other' angels worship Him."
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    The Son is distinguished from the angels. God did not say "makes the 'other' angels spirits."
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    The Son is distinguished from the "angels." "but unto the Son" not "one of the angels."
     
  10. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

    +535
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Hebrews 1:7.. He makes His angels spirits...
    And angel can be seen But Jesus said that No one has ever seen God..John 1:8..
     
  11. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

    +535
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    It was an angel who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, But It was God who spoke to Moses through the angel....
    Acts 7:30-32...After forty years had passed, an ANGEL appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to get a closer look, he heard the Lord say: I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham....

    What Mosses saw is an Angel and what he heard is the Lord...is not the angel who spoke but God through the Angel. We can see that in this next verse...Acts 7: 35..he was sent to be their ruler by God HIMSELF THROUGH THE ANGEL WHO APPEARED TO HIM IN THE BUSH...
     
  12. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +4,627
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    so it was an angel that showed Moses His "angel glory" ... that does not compute
     
  13. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Well-Known Member

    903
    +490
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Jesus is not Michael.

    Michael "is" the one holding Satan back at this moment. The Holy Spirit will be here because Christ teaches some will be delivered up and it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them. He teaches the gospel must be preached to the nations at that time.

    Daniel 10:21 "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things but Michael your prince.

    II Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (letteth -to hold down in the Greek)

    Daniel 12:1 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

    "And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was." We know this is the tribulation.

    Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

    Again, this is Michael fighting with the devil, after this future war he is cast down with his angels. This is future, not his previous rebellion as the verses below state.

    Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."
    Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
    Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
    Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death

    Here is the word of their testimony that Christ teaches in the gospels. So we see this is future.

    Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

    We know Christ shortened the time for the elect's sake.


    Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

    The same book of life talked about in Daniel 12.

    The scriptures show that Michael has great importance in end time prophecy but he is not Jesus.




     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  14. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

    +535
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    The Glory of the one who spoke to Moses..
     
  15. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +23,597
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    I mean, good for Matthew Henry then. But it doesn't change the fact that the historic teaching of the Church makes a clear distinction between Michael, one of the archangels who serve God, and Jesus Christ the Eternal Son of God.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  16. privatepop

    privatepop Newbie

    52
    +4
    Christian
    Single
    Jude 9, Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

    The word Reviling is the word Blasphemy. The word Accusation is Judgment. Christ the Chief Messenger would not bring a blasphemist judgment against the Devil. He said "The Lord rebuke thee." which is a judgment.
     
  17. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

    +4,355
    Non-Denom
    Single
    The angel of the Lord never surrenders His name nor is He identified in the Old Testament.

    Yet Michael the archangel is identified in Daniel 10:13, Daniel 10:21, and Daniel 12:1.

    Micheal is the archangel who looks after the nation of Israel
    (Daniel 12:1).

    The angel of the Lord cannot surrender His name until He becomes the Christ.

    Genesis 32:29-30 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there. So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."

    That's how you tell them apart.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  18. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him Great is thy faithfulness Supporter

    +6,790
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    And created beings.
    Created through the Son who is greater than the angels.
     
  19. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him Great is thy faithfulness Supporter

    +6,790
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    If Michael was Christ he would not have said "the Lord rebuke thee", he would have said "I rebuke thee"; that is the point.
    The One who had driven out demons and called the devil a liar and a murderer, had the authority to rebuke him.
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Newbie

    +522
    Baptist
    Married
    I posted plain Scripture showing Jesus DID speak ill of Satan, which Michael didn't dare do. MICHAEL IS NOT JESUS! Did God ever say, "Michael, you are My Son, & today I have begotten you"?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
Loading...